The Leica SL3 - A Review by Jonathan Slack

[pf4eva]

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13 hours ago, jonoslack said:

I understand animal eyes are rather difficult. I got the impression that mine focused on the nearest point of the dog, and considering how zippy she is it did a pretty good job of it. But you can’t see Uny’s collar or eyes!

500$ canon R50 can do it very well, it is a shame that Leica sells SL3 for 7k and it comes with beta Animal detection... 

[PeterGA]

@jonoslack fair review mate. Took you a few years to catch on to the 'use' cases of more megapixels but you got there in the end...😛

 

atb

Pete

[lx1713]

Many thanks, Jono, once again an excellent review!

I had my hands on the SL3 a couple of weeks ago and I felt totally at home with the interface. I thought, wow! this is an efficient machine. It's the first time I started thinking of getting rid of all SL cameras and even the Q2. The interface change would be too jarring for me and it will take me 2-3 months to get used to it. I have differing uses for SL, SL2, SL2-S and the Q2 but I really liked the new interface. So having the multiple resolutions is a plus. 

I thought that it's good to let you guys do the usual Leica forum brainstorming before I dipped my toes into the conversation. All I have to say is thank you. I appreciate you guys for the great dialogs.

I think the only thing I will say is regarding the timecode/pc terminal. I'm happy Leica accommodated. Its not perfect placement but it's there if I needed it. If the SL3 is in a cage, the placement may be the only place accessible for a video/stills shooter in the studio. I will want to attach and detach the relevant cables quickly in a production. I'm thinking more as a studio photographer here than a video guy. If you have to shoot both media types back to back it might be relevant. 

So the timecode interface doubled up as a PC terminal (as informed by the staff) was brilliant, I thought. The placement, maybe not but I still use the older studio strobes and this is something I'm glad to have even if I have gone wireless for a few years. My Profoto wireless rf or bluetooth had occasional issues.

 

[2M6TTLs]

On 3/10/2024 at 11:21 AM, 2M6TTLs said:

Interesting. I might like to in use the app to "easily update my firmware" if that is the case, so I'll investigate it, if only for that purpose alone. Sounds like it does work well from what I'm reading here on the forums. Can't hurt to play around with it.

Update. Downloaded the app on my phone and could not get the update to work whatever I did. Hmmm.... 

[2M6TTLs]

On 3/11/2024 at 4:54 AM, lencap said:

I believe that the power switch is also accessible through the new Leica App.  When you tether the app to the camera you also gain the ability to turn it on and off through the app.  That isn't possible with a physical switch.  It also allows for future features to be created that can use the on/off switch in new ways.  Perhaps time lapse photography, turning on or shutting down after a pre-determined time/number of shots?  

All very well except many people don't do time lapse photography etc. so if you adopt this design philosophy then you have an illuminated power switch you didn't want for people that do. in which case, it's not an improvement. Connected devices are great when they work..until they don't, and if you are using camera with a phone, you now have two battery draining devices to think about. i really, really don't want my camera tethered, connected or apped to a phone.I read here on the forum about how you could do a firmware update using an app. I downloaded the app and it didn't work at all. Yes, I did it several times and it still didn't work.That's in the comfort of my own home. I wouldn't want to deal with problems with camera and connectivity in the field. A simple switch is just that. Simple. I don't need to remember what the flashing mode, green mode, white mode, blue mode  and red mode all mean.

[Sensorix]

vor 8 Minuten schrieb 2M6TTLs:

I don't need to remember what the flashing mode, green mode, white mode, blue mode  and red mode all mean.

I'm a bit colorblind. Further problem with that for me.

[2M6TTLs]

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22 hours ago, Sensorix said:

I'm a bit colorblind. Further problem with that for me.

Sorry to hear that..seems like Leica didn't think of it!

[goodbokeh]

Jono, my apologies for being critical about the SL3 but with Leica not providing electronic first curtain shutter for the SL3 (like other camera companies do) the only workable option is the new (louder) mechanical shutter. Not good.

Take a look at the DPReview SL3/90 SL APO sample photos (link below) shot around 1/125 and below, they are softer than they should be. Mechanical shutter shock comes to mind. Electronic shutter to the rescue? Well, the SL3's electronic shutter is very slow (much slower than the SL2's) and ES artifacts can be problematic quite often.

Until Leica provides EFCS for the SL3 I will sadly not buy it. I'm concerned mechanical shutter shock will spoil the optical performance of the exquisite SL APO lenses at slower shutter speeds, whether handheld with IS or on a tripod.

https://www.dpreview.com/products/leica/slrs/leica_sl3/sample-photos

[SrMi]

6 minutes ago, goodbokeh said:

Jono, my apologies for being critical about the SL3 but with Leica not providing electronic first curtain shutter for the SL3 (like other camera companies do) the only workable option is the new (louder) mechanical shutter. Not good.

Take a look at the DPReview SL3/90 SL APO sample photos (link below) shot around 1/125 and below, they are softer than they should be. Mechanical shutter shock comes to mind. Electronic shutter to the rescue? Well, the SL3's electronic shutter is very slow (much slower than the SL2's) and ES artifacts can be problematic quite often.

Until Leica provides EFCS for the SL3 I will sadly not buy it. I'm concerned mechanical shutter shock will spoil the optical performance of the exquisite SL APO lenses at slower shutter speeds, whether handheld with IS or on a tripod.

https://www.dpreview.com/products/leica/slrs/leica_sl3/sample-photos

As I replied to you on DPR, electronic shutter works perfectly well with moving people, boats and other vehicles. Sony a7riv and rV users have been shooting with electronic shutter without issues. I use my SL3 almost always with electronic shutter.

Yes, if I have very fast movement, I will switch to mechanical shutter. 
I do not know whether there is any shutter shock with lenses at 100mm or less.

[goodbokeh]

1 minute ago, SrMi said:

As I replied to you on DPR, electronic shutter works perfectly well with moving people, boats and other vehicles. Sony a7riv and rV users have been shooting with electronic shutter without issues. I use my SL3 almost always with electronic shutter.

Yes, if I have very fast movement, I will switch to mechanical shutter. 
I do not know whether there is any shutter shock with lenses at 100mm or less.

SrMi I own a Sony A7r5. It shares the 60MP sensor with the SL3. Electronic shutter on the Sony does not work well except in near static situations. Even with moderate speed subjects, like fast walking-jogging people, distortion can occur in arms and legs.

Defending Leica for not providing EFCS is your choice, but for me it is a glaring weakness. EFCS is a cornerstone of mirrorless shutter design in the camera industry. The SL3 needs EFCS very much. Unfortunately it's ES is not even as fast as the SL2's, which underscores the SL3's EFCS need even more.

[SrMi]

1 minute ago, goodbokeh said:

SrMi I own a Sony A7r5. It shares the 60MP sensor with the SL3. Electronic shutter on the Sony does not work well except in near static situations. Even with moderate speed subjects, like fast walking-jogging people, distortion can occur in arms and legs.

Defending Leica for not providing EFCS is your choice, but for me it is a glaring weakness. EFCS is a cornerstone of mirrorless shutter design in the camera industry. The SL3 needs EFCS very much. Unfortunately it's ES is not even as fast as the SL2's, which underscores the SL3's EFCS need even more.

I am not defending Leica. I wish they would add EFCS to M and SL cameras. They really should. I am only debunking FUD that the electronic shutter in SL3 can be used only with static scenes. That is not true, but I let everyone try it out themselves. Meanwhile, all images that I post in SL3 image thread will be with electronic shutter unless especially mentioned.

Also, we do not know whether there is any shutter shock with lenses at 100mm or less. DPR samples are not representative.

[goodbokeh]

I've done many careful tests over the years on shutter shock. Mechanical shutters have always had shock. My M10M, R and SL2 shutters have done the best job of narrowing the shutter speed range and amplitude but the shock is still there. My other cameras with EFCS have not been totally free of shutter shock either (compared to ES) but it's a lot less and harder to find.

[SrMi]

I wonder why neither Sean Reid nor @jonoslack ever complained about EFCS. Leica is the only mirrorless camera without it.

[goodbokeh]

1 minute ago, SrMi said:

I wonder why neither Sean Reid nor @jonoslack ever complained about EFCS. Leica is the only mirrorless camera without it.

Good question. The person that made me aware of the shutter shock issue (years ago) was Jim Kasson who's now a moderator over at DPReview's Medium Format forum. He  also has his own interesting and informative blog website: https://blog.kasson.com/

[SrMi]

40 minutes ago, goodbokeh said:

Good question. The person that made me aware of the shutter shock issue (years ago) was Jim Kasson who's now a moderator over at DPReview's Medium Format forum. He  also has his own interesting and informative blog website: https://blog.kasson.com/

I have learned a lot from Jim’s blog and value his opinion a lot. I was using his Z 7 shutter shock method to investigate M11 and M10R shutter shock issues (practically none). I am traveling, so I will do only some ad hoc SL3 testing with a 100mm lens.

I was shooting glass blowers in Murano with electronic shutter. I like when I am silent when shooting 😁.

[jonoslack]

1 hour ago, SrMi said:

I wonder why neither Sean Reid nor @jonoslack ever complained about EFCS. Leica is the only mirrorless camera without it.

Hi there

i’m ashamed to say that I didn’t give it a thought, perhaps because I didn’t see any examples of shutter shock, even though I did do some tripod work earlier on. 
 

I’m struggling to think of a situation when I would use it to be honest. 

[SrMi]

1 hour ago, jonoslack said:

Hi there

i’m ashamed to say that I didn’t give it a thought, perhaps because I didn’t see any examples of shutter shock, even though I did do some tripod work earlier on. 
 

I’m struggling to think of a situation when I would use it to be honest. 

Shutter shock occurs also when using the camera handheld. People have been reporting shutter shock bout when using long focal lengths, forcing them to use electronic shutter instead. I have not experienced shutter shock blur with SL cameras yet.

[jonoslack]

4 hours ago, SrMi said:

Shutter shock occurs also when using the camera handheld. People have been reporting shutter shock bout when using long focal lengths, forcing them to use electronic shutter instead. I have not experienced shutter shock blur with SL cameras yet.

Of course I realise what it is - and the point of EFCS - but I guess  I'm negligently unconcerned about small losses in sharpness using long focal lengths. . . but I understand that it's important to lots of people, and so I should have considered it!

all the best

[EJS73]

On 3/23/2024 at 1:50 PM, SrMi said:

 I was using his Z 7 shutter shock method to investigate M11 and M10R shutter shock issues (practically none). I am traveling, so I will do only some ad hoc SL3 testing with a 100mm lens.

I was shooting glass blowers in Murano with electronic shutter. I like when I am silent when shooting 😁.

When it came out, the Z7 severely suffered from shutter shock; Nikon addressed the issue with a firmware update that allowed for an electronic first curtain for exposures up to 1/320sec. Any faster than that, and the different speed of the electronic first curtain and the second mechanical shutter would risk veiling part of the image. Sony applies an electronic first curtain at all speeds, without the risk of a veil, apparently because the electronic first curtain is timed to the mechanical shutter.

I've experienced shutter shock with my Z7, and also with the Canon R5 and several Olympus and Panasonic models when they were used with full mechanical shutter. Never noticed it on my M11 or Sl2S. I've ordered the SL3, which I don't expect will be any different.

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[Photoworks]

On 3/22/2024 at 3:14 AM, 2M6TTLs said:

All very well except many people don't do time lapse photography etc. so if you adopt this design philosophy then you have an illuminated power switch you didn't want for people that do. in which case, it's not an improvement.

you can turn the light off and not see it ever again.

On 3/22/2024 at 3:14 AM, 2M6TTLs said:

Connected devices are great when they work..until they don't, and if you are using camera with a phone, you now have two battery draining devices to think about. i really, really don't want my camera tethered, connected or apped to a phone.I read here on the forum about how you could do a firmware update using an app. I downloaded the app and it didn't work at all. Yes, I did it several times and it still didn't work.

you probably have a bad connection configuration on your phone. try going into your phone's BT setting deleting the SL3 camera, and then creating a new pairing in the FOTOS app.