Digilux 2 serial numbers and sensor failure

[JHAG]

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Mine is 301xxx, bought November 9, 2005. Just get it out of its drawer after

2 months without using it, and sensor is down.

I don't know if they will accept to cover it with the warranty, which ended

just 3 weeks ago.

My love affair with digital is decidingly getting to an end.

My M7, R9 and Rollei 6008 are working flawlessly…

 

Update : Leica offers a warranty extension on this problem.

[JHAG]

Has anyone used this extension yet ?

[mjh]

Mine is 301xxx, bought November 9, 2005. Just get it out of its drawer after 2 months without using it, and sensor is down.

So much for the no-failures-beyond-299999-hypothesis …

[laptoprob]

So much for the no-failures-beyond-299999-hypothesis …

 

This is worrying. Do the newer sensors fail too? I mean, the issue was diagnosed and solved during 2004. This 3*** camera must have been produced after that. So how about newer sensors?

How about replaced sensors?

 

Not good news, not at all...

[adan]

We have 2 D2s in the 299- range - neither has failed yet.

 

One was purchased late '04, the other was a replacement Leica sent me (for a fee) in lieu of repairing a dropped camera, also fall of '04, and thus was likely a refurbished camera (although I have no idea whether the refurbishing involved the sensor).

[jbstitt]

Has anyone used this extension yet ?

 

Mine was definitely out of the original warrenty and they replaced the sensor as per the extended warrenty. I am not aware of any time limit on the extended warrenty.

 

I also would like to know, do they know what the original sensor problem was, and are they confident that the replacements will not have the same fate in a few years? Was it a design flaw that is liable to stay with the sendor or was it a manufacturing flaw that could be corrected, so we can be confident of the long life of the replacement sensor.

 

There still is not anything around equal to the D2 in some ways - controls, fast lens. While mine was away I bought a G9 and it is a wonderful camera, one I wish Leica would have made with their glass on it, but it is still not the D2 for feel (close) and manual controls, and fast lens. I am still hoping either Panaleica will realize the good path they were on and return,or the value of my D2 is going to go up as a collector item

[Riley]

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So much for the no-failures-beyond-299999-hypothesis …

 

maybe not

there should be an effect that is what i would term ambient failures, that is those of the population that might fail anyway, every maker is troubled by this. I would want to see more failures in the 3xxxxx population to be able to make 'that' conclusion.

 

also relevant, how many cameras are out there pre and post 3xxxxx ?

that way a simple t test could give a probability score as to the propensity to failure.

[laptoprob]

True Riley, very true. How many D2's were made anyway? From the low 2.9xx.xxx to the low 3.1xx.xxx is somewhere near 200.000, but Leica always made cameras in batches of a few thousand. So maybe about 100.000 were made?

What percentage of any sensor is acceptable to fail? 1% of 100.000 is still 1000 cameras.

[rliamo]

I remember reading in the archives a few months ago and someone said that 60000 D2's were produced.Not sure if it's still possible to dig up the old thread,maybe someone else remembers.(Bill Parsons?) I was thinking along the same lines as Riley in that even with the sensor issue sorted the later D2's wouldn't be immune to Murphy's Law,although I admit that's wishful thinking on my part....Meanwhile the glass on the D2 is the nearest I'm gonna get to the Summicron Glow for a while...good luck........Liam

[woz]

After two and a half years of ownership, my sensor went out this summer. Leica told me the repair would take six to eight weeks. I got my camera back 15 weeks later, but it works fine now.

 

woz

[farnz]

... I also would like to know, do they know what the original sensor problem was, and are they confident that the replacements will not have the same fate in a few years? Was it a design flaw that is liable to stay with the sendor or was it a manufacturing flaw that could be corrected, so we can be confident of the long life of the replacement sensor...

John,

 

The cause appears to have been as follows and the fix is expected to be permanent:

 

"The root cause of the problem is only hinted at by the advisories, but in our investigation of the problem we've uncovered more specific information. Semiconductor chips can be assembled into a variety of different package types and styles. Most chips these days are delivered in plastic (epoxy, actually) packages that are inexpensive, but that may not offer environmental protection as good as that of more expensive ceramic package types. Apparently, the generation of Sony sensors affected by the problem were packaged in plastic, and the design or manufacturing parameters for the packages involved resulted in their being susceptible to elevated moisture and humidity levels in typical digital camera usage. Only in very unusual circumstances (high heat, very high humidity, high pressure) does this quickly lead to a problem. In most cases, it takes a very long time for moisture to creep into a plastic chip package. Hence, only now, two or more years after the earliest of the cameras affected by this were manufactured, are we starting to see a widespread pattern of problems."

 

Full story here:

NEWS! - CCD failures: the bigger picture

 

Pete.

[hongtoh]

Mine, SN 2988XXX Failed today:mad: . Was intermittent the last few days and finally failed.

 

Hope they still have enough sensors to replace it.

[wmyowell]

2989xxx Sensor failed last spring. This was a replacement camera; the first one I had wouldn't display battery charge condition. The replacement had a fingerprint between two lens elements (!). I doubt it affected pictures, but I asked Leica to clean it and when I got it back in about five weeks, all was fine. I returned it to Calumet Photo where I purchased it; don't know where they sent it.

 

Bill Yowell

[FrankA]

2997XXX and no problems. It is for sale if anyone is interested.

[fotmaesron]

ser 2988*** just died today, i hope they do the replacement for Belgian costumers aswell?

do i bring it in by my reseller or do you send it to Solms directly?

I dont use him so often anymore sinds i got aD3, but i dont want to lose him.

 

fotmaesron

[laptoprob]

ser 2988*** just died today, i hope they do the replacement for Belgian costumers aswell?

do i bring it in by my reseller or do you send it to Solms directly?

I dont use him so often anymore sinds i got aD3, but i dont want to lose him.

 

fotmaesron

 

 

Try your reseller first. They will send the camera to Solms.

good luck!

[JHAG]

Surprise : mine tells me that even under warranty, I still have to pay for the shipping.

What's that ?

[mjh]

maybe not

there should be an effect that is what i would term ambient failures, that is those of the population that might fail anyway, every maker is troubled by this. I would want to see more failures in the 3xxxxx population to be able to make 'that' conclusion.

If a certain Sony sensor has this problem, there is no fixed time after which it will fail. It depends on factors such as ambient humidity and temperature, so some sensors from a batch will last longer than others. But everything else being equal, an earlier production sensor will fail before a later production sensor. That the lower serial numbers dominate the failure statistics should come as no surprise.

 

If I scan the obit pages of the papers, I see that people having died from natural causes were usually born in the 1920s or 1930s, sometimes 1940s. Luckily, I was born in 1958, so barring accident or murder, I am immortal, don’t you think?

[JHAG]

About statistics, I had a professor of statistics who disregarded statisticians:rolleyes:

He used to say :

"I live in France, and I eat 1 chicken per week. My wife lives in France and eat O chicken per week (she hates it).

So, statistics will tell us in France, every Frenchman(woman) consumes 1,5 chicken per week."

I love that story.

Apart that, you're perfectly right, I'm one of the early 3xxxxxx series failer, because mine has been bought later.

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Hallo,

Look here: Leica Lux

[Riley]

If a certain Sony sensor has this problem, there is no fixed time after which it will fail. It depends on factors such as ambient humidity and temperature, so some sensors from a batch will last longer than others. But everything else being equal, an earlier production sensor will fail before a later production sensor. That the lower serial numbers dominate the failure statistics should come as no surprise.

 

If I scan the obit pages of the papers, I see that people having died from natural causes were usually born in the 1920s or 1930s, sometimes 1940s. Luckily, I was born in 1958, so barring accident or murder, I am immortal, don’t you think?

 

yes you say IF a certain SONY sensor has a problem

Panasonic gave their cameras a batch range outside of the problematic sensors, which indicates that not all sensors do.

 

Statistically this is the same problem as the classic 'light bulb life in hours' question that all statistics lectures get around too. The answer that 'tests its significance' relies on the data fitting a bell-curve. If a particular data set doesnt fit the curve it would be a determinable fact. It depends on the notion that a data sets life in hours (not death) exceeded the life in hours of another data set.

 

We know this to be true too in the life of persons in particular age groups, where due to improved health care during a persons life and differing environmental factors that the age life of persons is going upwards not downwards. While we dont expect people to be immortal, we can see a difference in the failure rate and test for that significance. In this way we know already that those born in 1958 are not immortal, yet have a longer life than those of persons born earlier. And yes there would be a statistic for death due to 'murder or accident', coincidently that last statistic would be higher not lower as it impacts on a data group with a longer time in an environment with a given fatality rate due to those factors even if those factors are not shifting within that time span, which they most certainly are.

 

Like I said it is a statistically testable proposition, one that SONY at least already know the answer too.