SL3 Rumored Price

[BernardC]

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7 minutes ago, Simone_DF said:

True, but they are technically (spec list) superior cameras. By comparison the SL2 is two generations behind. 

it  depends on your own needs. If speed and AF are your main thing, you'll find more to like in other brands. On the other hand, Leica's 47MP sensor still tests better than the competition (other than Leica's 60MP sensor used in the M11). Leica's IBIS and pixel shift are also better than the competition.

It's like what I wrote earlier about the price of Leica, Nikon, Hasselblad, Nikon when I was much younger. They all had their niche, and you wouldn't have a hope of convincing someone who needed a Sinar, or a Hasselblad, that an F3 had "better specs." It goes the other way, of course. A press stringer would never use a Sinar, even though it has "better IQ" (to use modern terms).

I don't travel the world shooting Formula One, or cricket. If I did, I would use Canon. However, Canon's system has little appeal for my actual work; I have no need for an extra 2fps, or $12,000 super-telephotos.

[SJH]

In reality from what I hear they'll make a modest increase with the SL3 over the SL2 but nothing like what's being talked about here.

The market won't take it really unlike the M line, will it have the AF of the Sony A9III or Canon R1 no but it will have other key features and functions (plus build quality/menu structure) that outshine the competition, most likely yes.

I look forward to getting mine on launch day

[tomasis7]

53 minutes ago, BernardC said:

it  depends on your own needs. If speed and AF are your main thing, you'll find more to like in other brands. On the other hand, Leica's 47MP sensor still tests better than the competition (other than Leica's 60MP sensor used in the M11). Leica's IBIS and pixel shift are also better than the competition.

It's like what I wrote earlier about the price of Leica, Nikon, Hasselblad, Nikon when I was much younger. They all had their niche, and you wouldn't have a hope of convincing someone who needed a Sinar, or a Hasselblad, that an F3 had "better specs." It goes the other way, of course. A press stringer would never use a Sinar, even though it has "better IQ" (to use modern terms).

I don't travel the world shooting Formula One, or cricket. If I did, I would use Canon. However, Canon's system has little appeal for my actual work; I have no need for an extra 2fps, or $12,000 super-telephotos.

i try to ignore such threads as some people try to compare SL with CanikonSony which never works in reality. Leica lenses are at another different level as well. 

A lower price of SL makes more sense as many own either Q and SL or M and SL. Not because they compete with Japanese ones. 

I bought the SL 601 in this year as I could afford it, not the older M. It is great for photogs who want a Leica or a body to use M lenses on.

I'm not in the typical group of Canikon, Sony but I have a similar budget as them though I appreciate Leica lenses much more than they do. 

Edited February 5, 2024 by tomasis7

[LBJ2]

40 minutes ago, SJH said:

In reality from what I hear they'll make a modest increase with the SL3 over the SL2 but nothing like what's being talked about here.

The market won't take it really unlike the M line, will it have the AF of the Sony A9III or Canon R1 no but it will have other key features and functions (plus build quality/menu structure) that outshine the competition, most likely yes.

I look forward to getting mine on launch day

I think what you hear/heard aligns more with the actual rumor posted "under €8K" Under gives a lot of room to be correct when all is said and done. 

[la1402]

44 minutes ago, SJH said:

it will have other key features and functions (plus build quality/menu structure) that outshine the competition, most likely yes.

Most likely no. As today. It will remain an irrational choice that can not be made with value for money in mind. But as an object of desire - who knows what’s the right price?

[Chris Nebard]

2 hours ago, steveBK said:

I think I handled that in the preceding line - “I'd have liked to see Leica pursue smaller/slower line of L mount primes rather than rebranding Sigma/Panasonic as they have decided to do.”

Im sure something between 400-500g at a slower speed is achievable with good results for Leica, at a $3k price point maybe  

Rather that than buy a Leica body and put Sigma lenses on it

 

 

I think this is a good point. I might well be in a minority of one, but I wouldn’t have bought my SL2-s without the ability to adapt M lenses very effectively and, moreover, without the L Mount Alliance - specifically Sigma’s relatively small, beautifully made, tactile, aperture ringed, i-Contemporary range of prime a/f lenses. The SL range was crying out for lenses like these (around f2, f2.8, f3.5, sensibly priced but not at the expense of good optical quality) If Leica ever produced something similar, then I for one would be all over them. 

[steveBK]

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1 hour ago, Chris Nebard said:

I think this is a good point. I might well be in a minority of one, but I wouldn’t have bought my SL2-s without the ability to adapt M lenses very effectively and, moreover, without the L Mount Alliance - specifically Sigma’s relatively small, beautifully made, tactile, aperture ringed, i-Contemporary range of prime a/f lenses. The SL range was crying out for lenses like these (around f2, f2.8, f3.5, sensibly priced but not at the expense of good optical quality) If Leica ever produced something similar, then I for one would be all over them. 

Yes this is what I am getting at!  The SL2 actually balances weight/aesthetically/ergonomically very well with the Sigma I-Contemporary lines.  You get mechanical aperture controls on lens & good weight/size.

But then I ask myself which I get an SL2 to shoot Sigma glass instead of a Sony something.  Seems like paying a premium on the wrong part (body vs lens).

Sometimes it feels like the SL line is stuck in a weird limbo of Leica not wanting to cannibalize their other product lines (M, Q) and so they leave otherwise obvious product gaps.

[helged]

57 minutes ago, steveBK said:

Yes this is what I am getting at!  The SL2 actually balances weight/aesthetically/ergonomically very well with the Sigma I-Contemporary lines.  You get mechanical aperture controls on lens & good weight/size.

But then I ask myself which I get an SL2 to shoot Sigma glass instead of a Sony something.  Seems like paying a premium on the wrong part (body vs lens).

Sometimes it feels like the SL line is stuck in a weird limbo of Leica not wanting to cannibalize their other product lines (M, Q) and so they leave otherwise obvious product gaps.

Don't forget the Panasonic Lumix bodies. Of the new generation (with phase detect af), S5ii has been out for a year or so, but S1ii or S1Rii (both or one of them) are expected later this year. I guess S1Rii will be Panasonic's counterpart to SL3. Personally, I have used S1R and I have been quite happy with that body.

[steveBK]

1 hour ago, helged said:

Don't forget the Panasonic Lumix bodies. Of the new generation (with phase detect af), S5ii has been out for a year or so, but S1ii or S1Rii (both or one of them) are expected later this year. I guess S1Rii will be Panasonic's counterpart to SL3. Personally, I have used S1R and I have been quite happy with that body.

Sure, had an S1r when it was first out.

But then not sure why I would shoot Panasonic body & Sigma lens over a Sony body & Sigma lens?  Sony gives wider selection and better performance bodies. Panasonic UI is more akin to Sony complexity and not the simplicity of a Leica/Hasselblad design.

[Chris Nebard]

1 hour ago, steveBK said:

Yes this is what I am getting at!  The SL2 actually balances weight/aesthetically/ergonomically very well with the Sigma I-Contemporary lines.  You get mechanical aperture controls on lens & good weight/size.

But then I ask myself which I get an SL2 to shoot Sigma glass instead of a Sony something.  Seems like paying a premium on the wrong part (body vs lens).

Sometimes it feels like the SL line is stuck in a weird limbo of Leica not wanting to cannibalize their other product lines (M, Q) and so they leave otherwise obvious product gaps.

I agree & think this is true. Leica might’ve played a blinder, commercially. They will sell more SL bodies on the strength of the L Mount Alliance’s lens alternatives while, at the same time, not threatening their M lens sales. It’s as though Leica are saying: “if you want an M style lens on your SL, buy one. If you want a/f; buy an Apo, a Panasonic, a Sigma, or a Panasonic style Leica non-Apo - anything from the Alliance.  But, don’t ask us to build a small SL Summicron/Summarit/Elmarit with a/f and an aperture ring because it might cut across the M range”.

I’ve had Leica Ms - I loved them - but I’m at the age where I need the focus magnification now. I certainly don’t use an SL because its technology or price are competitive, I use it because I appreciate the quality, the simplicity, and because I have confidence in my ability as a photographer to use the light properly and to engage as simply as possible with choice of shutter speed, iso, aperture (apologies - that sounds arrogant, not my intention).

Like you, steveBK, I’d love it if Leica gave me a range of SL a/f primes in the M tradition. Will they do it with the SL3? Almost certainly not. Until they do, I will happily keep my SL2-S with my M lenses and the little Sigmas which, incidentally, are far more capable as lenses than I am as a photographer.

Anyway, it’s still all about the thrill of taking good photos. Keep enjoying it! All the best, everyone.

[LeicaR10]

I believe many photographers do not recall a couple things about Leica.  First, its a very small camera company compared to all the others.  Being small has advantages such as it has the M digital rangefinder niche with superb M lenses.  The Q models are unmatched for what these tools do.  The S camera saved Leica from bankruptcy along with Dr Kaufmann taking over, making it a private company and saving it from extinction.  Also  Dr Kaufmann realized Leica could not compete with the DSLR market at the time and withdrew the R10 and dumped the R line, only to return in 2015 with the only mirrorless camera that is the SL line.  It sold like hotcakes.  Second, Dr Kaufmann also turned Leica into a luxury brand at the same time.  No other camera company has gone that way as a business model for whatever reason.  Smart move in many regards for Leica IMO.  Third, Leica being small works at the beat of its own drum.  It does not have to compete like Canon, Nikon or Sony, etc.  Its doesn't need mass consumer purchase/sales.  Leica makes niche cameras and lenses that meet a market niche based on shrewd marketing and simply by all standards excellent products.  I know of no other camera company that makes hand-made cameras or lenses like Leica creates.  It is expensive production cost, requires highly skilled technicians to produce each camera or lens...by hand.  Last, if people want features and less expensive cameras and lenses, then Canon, Nikon or Sony, Panasonic await your credit card or wallet.  Just remember, those are not hand-made Leica cameras or lenses.  Just some thoughts to ponder...but for those who use and love Leica cameras and lenses have helped me create photographs to capture a moment in time, create a unique rendering of a vision of what I saw to share with the world through using light, careful composition and creative vision to create photographs that might make the viewer;  Stop, Look, Think and perhaps Feel something about the moment in time.  r/ Mark

PS...I know there are Leica masters of photography in the forum such as Trickness, Sohail, Mr. Pink, Blackdoc, Ivan Cooper, Helged, David Noble and others who create these types of photographs...check them out.  

Edited February 6, 2024 by LeicaR10

[LBJ2]

41 minutes ago, LeicaR10 said:

I believe many photographers do not recall a couple things about Leica.  First, its a very small camera company compared to all the others.  Being small has advantages such as it has the M digital rangefinder niche with superb M lenses.  The Q models are unmatched for what these tools do.  The S camera saved Leica from bankruptcy along with Dr Kaufmann taking over, making it a private company and saving it from extinction.  Also  Dr Kaufmann realized Leica could not compete with the DSLR market at the time and withdrew the R10 and dumped the R line, only to return in 2015 with the only mirrorless camera that is the SL line.  It sold like hotcakes.  Second, Dr Kaufmann also turned Leica into a luxury brand at the same time.  No other camera company has gone that way as a business model for whatever reason.  Smart move in many regards for Leica IMO.  Third, Leica being small works at the beat of its own drum.  It does not have to compete like Canon, Nikon or Sony, etc.  Its doesn't need mass consumer purchase/sales.  Leica makes niche cameras and lenses that meet a market niche based on shrewd marketing and simply by all standards excellent products.  I know of no other camera company that makes hand-made cameras or lenses like Leica creates.  It is expensive production cost, requires highly skilled technicians to produce each camera or lens...by hand.  Last, if people want features and less expensive cameras and lenses, then Canon, Nikon or Sony, Panasonic await your credit card or wallet.  Just remember, those are not hand-made Leica cameras or lenses.  Just some thoughts to ponder...but for those who use and love Leica cameras and lenses have helped me create photographs to capture a moment in time, create a unique rendering of a vision of what I saw to share with the world through using light, careful composition and creative vision to create photographs that might make the viewer;  Stop, Look, Think and perhaps Feel something about the moment in time.  r/ Mark

PS...I know there are Leica masters of photography in the forum such as Trickness, Sohail, Blackdoc, Ivan Cooper, Helged and others who create these type of photographs...check them out.  

On a side note, according to this factory tour "Sony cameras are almost completely hand made" too.

 

Edited February 6, 2024 by LBJ2

[Jeff S]

1 hour ago, LeicaR10 said:

  I know of no other camera company that makes hand-made cameras or lenses like Leica creates.

…….

PS...I know there are Leica masters of photography in the forum such as Trickness, Sohail, Blackdoc, Ivan Cooper, Helged and others who create these type of photographs...check them out.  

Hasselblad cameras are hand made.

This thread is of course about the SL system, not the M. SL lenses require sophisticated manufacturing and assembly technology, with automation such as software scanning and coding, to meet tight tolerances and reduce errors.  Likewise, platform-based construction, with same sized lenses and shared parts, is necessary to optimize build quality and to create economies of scale and reduce costs. There is of course much more to it, as Karbe touches on in this video (from roughly 39 min +). But hand made production and assembly goes only so far in this modern competitive market segment.

As for your last point, it isn’t Leica gear that creates great pics; it’s the photographers, who would likely still make fine photos using other gear if they chose. The forum photos specific to various Leica systems offer plenty of evidence that great gear doesn’t necessarily make great photographers.  That’s marketing-speak. Plenty of historically wonderful photographs were made with gear other than Leica.

Jeff

Edited February 6, 2024 by Jeff S

[JohnSantaF4]

Wouldn’t exorbitant pricing drive buyers to LUMIX?

[MakinMemories]

Well, I for one want an SL3 and will place an order the day they are announced! I will be selling my SL2 (black and 100% mint) along with the 24-70mm zoom lens that came in the bundle. While I think the 24mm-70mm is a very good lens, I just really wanted a made-in-Germany Leica zoom near the same focal range and absolutely love the SL 24-90mm!

[helged]

6 hours ago, steveBK said:

Sure, had an S1r when it was first out.

But then not sure why I would shoot Panasonic body & Sigma lens over a Sony body & Sigma lens?  Sony gives wider selection and better performance bodies. Panasonic UI is more akin to Sony complexity and not the simplicity of a Leica/Hasselblad design.

My thinking was that if the user is curious about - or has - Leica SL lens(es), particularly the SL prime(s), Lumix offer a less costly access to these lenses. Clearly, other systems are around, accepting Sigma lenses. Personally, I use a Canon body for high speed, af tracking. But I use Leica for everything else. In the past, I used several Nikon bodies for fast tracking. But I prefer Leica; I prefer the feeling of having an instrument in my hands, I like the Leica colours, I like the simplicity of the bodies/operation (very subjectively arguments, I know...). When forthcoming SL (or Lumix bodies) offer improved and reliable AF speed with tracking, Canon will be gone. This is me. It's not neccesarily rational in all respects.

[Simone_DF]

14 hours ago, BernardC said:

it  depends on your own needs. If speed and AF are your main thing, you'll find more to like in other brands.

What I meant is that the tech inside the Z9 and the A1 is expensive. The A1 has a stacked sensor for example. These things cost. The SL2 innards are “cheap” by comparison, and not too different from the S1R. The higher price of the SL2 has to do with the Leica brand positioning as a luxury and lifestyle brand vs more expensive tech of other brands. 

[LeicaR10]

I see my comments created interesting thoughts to ponder.  I have been a Leica, Canon and Nikon user for 48+ years at different times and used products that served my genre of photography quite well.  My resulting photographs were always best created with Leica products and always very well received by my clients who voted with their wallets.  At the end of the day, not every camera manufacturer produces the perfect camera or lens.  I always believed and taught my many students, it was never about the brand, make, model type, features that create the photograph to capture the vision one sees. It always gets down to aperture, shutter speed, ISO...and mastering light, composition and creative vision.  I always told my students and assistants, to master the camera and lens at hand...not to worry about the gear, next model etc., just get out there and shoot, shoot, shoot and in time, one will start to undertand the strengths and weaknesses of the gear.  As for Leica, I am always amused at those who grouse at prices, yet they would not complain or whinge at the price of a new Porsche.  One does not go into a Porsche dealer to grind them down on price.  It is what it is and if you can't afford the Porsche, there is a Volkswagon waiting for you.  Leica has very high labor costs in Germany...fact of life.  If in Asia, labor cost are very cheap...IMO, almost slave labor cheap.  To those who want less expensive cameras and lenses, they are there....indulge yourself.  If you want Leica...well one needs to open the wallet and use the black AMEX card and go enjoy creating photographs.  The good news, we have choices.  Last, if the SL3 will help you create the masterpiece photographs that your Leica SL2 or SL2-S, etc., cannot do, then maybe you really do need a SL3 to help you reach your photographic zenith...so just pay off the black AMEX card and get ready to use it come March.  Just my opinions.   r/ Mark 

Edited February 6, 2024 by LeicaR10

[keeping_a_balance]

11 hours ago, steveBK said:

But then I ask myself which I get an SL2 to shoot Sigma glass instead of a Sony something.  Seems like paying a premium on the wrong part (body vs lens).

Have this constant debate in my mind.

What I love about the SL system is really the ease of use, buttons and dials are well placed, there are not too many instances you are accidently changing a setting and that viewfinder is magic.  But the only way I can use this camera all day is really with sigma/panasonic or the leicasonic lenses.  Even using the heavier M glass like the Summilux 35 M lens all day was quite heavy.  

The AF has never been a major issue.  

It's all weight for me that keeps me from using this as a daily camera.  If they shave off significant weight I may be tempted to upgrade, but I have since also gone the route of Sony with some great glass in a combo that is almost as light as the SL2 body alone, and that weight element vs IQ (or perceived IQ) is hard to beat in my case.

 

 

 

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[tomasis7]

1 hour ago, LeicaR10 said:

To those who want less expensive cameras and lenses, they are there....indulge yourself. 

Well, they rarely do. Their thinking is as cluttered as the JapCamera layout. 😂