M11 is missing 21 + 28mm Lux Lens Profiles

[yggdra.omega]

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Hello!

 

I sold my 28 and 21 Lux lenses last year and just received the VM 21 and 28 Noktons in the mail today, and I see that there is no option to select this lenses via Manual M Lens selection; is there any way around this, or will it be required to have 6 bit for these lenses specifically?

 

I’d appreciate any help, thanks!

[M11 for me]

Buy back the Leica lenses 😇

[mmradman]

Both Summilux lenses were launched after 2006, I.e. only exist in 6-bit version.

You can try manually coding, or, as suggested re-acquire old lenses if lack of exif data is bothering you. 

[Herr Barnack]

4 minutes ago, M11 for me said:

Buy back the Leica lenses 😇

Funny, but probably not the kind of help @yggdra.omega was in search of...

[yggdra.omega]

Hahahaha thanks everyone, I was hoping coded lens mounts would not be required as I assumed this would be an inventory of ALL lenses, kinda makes sense why they wouldn’t include lenses that have always had codes though!

[Photoworks]

I don't know about the 21, but the 28  is quite good.

ever if you pick a lens from the list you don't get corrections of a Leica lens, that is by design, only lenses with recognized 6bit coding get an in-camera correction.

That does not mean that you should code your lens to correspond to a Leica lens, the correction applied may not match.

[hdmesa]

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Can we revisit this? The 21/28 Lux manual M profiles are literally missing from the choices on 2.0.2 when you go to Lens Detection > Manual M > Edit List of M-lenses. Is anyone else seeing that?

[LeicaR10]

Hdmesa,   Your point in post #7 should be taken.  I just checked my M10-R and M cameras and there are no manual corrections for 21/28 Lux, nor 21 SEM lenses present in that firmware either.  I also noticed no 18 SEM profile.  I suspect Leica decided not to provide profiles for manual or no coding and now the cameras only will recognize the coding via AUTO settings.  The Manual codes appear to be intended for Leica pre-6 bit coded lenses now.  A solution;  One could simply shoot whatever lenses and use the lens profiles on import via Light Room etc for correction and not bother with the camera settings if using third party lenses.  I just checked Light Room and there are lens profile corrections fo VM lenses.  The lack of manual codes might have been this way for sometime and only just now this has come to light based on the OP thread topic.   r/ Mark

Edited February 15, 2024 by LeicaR10

[hdmesa]

38 minutes ago, LeicaR10 said:

Hdmesa,   Your point in post #7 should be taken.  I just checked my M10-R and M cameras and there are no corrections for 21/28 Lux, nor 21 SEM lenses present in that firmware either for Lens Detection in Manual.  I also noticed no 18 SEM profile.  I suspect Leica has decided not to provide profiles for manual coding and now the cameras only will recognize the coding via AUTO settings.  One could simply shoot whatever lenses and use the lens profiles on import via Light Room etc for correction and not bother with the camera settings if using third party lenses.   r/ Mark

So the logic is only lenses which were once offered in non-6-bit version are in that list?

The focal length is required for the live view digital stabilization on the M11 to work when zoomed in to focus (the same way IBIS in other cameras has to know the focal length to work) – and to get the automatic minimum shutter speed under Auto ISO to function. Of course I can select any of the other available 28mm lenses from the list, but it's annoying to have 28 5.6 written to EXIF when I'm using a Voigtlander 28 1.5 for example. It also means the vignette correction that shows in Live View and in the JPEGs may be less than optimal.

I wish Leica would just let us enter the focal length directly like we can on the SL2/S cameras. Having to select an M lens profile from the proverbial bones of old Leica lenses is not a very elegant setup.

Edited February 15, 2024 by hdmesa

[LeicaR10]

Hdmesa,   That logic might well be correct in your first point.  In Leica thinking, if you have a 6 bit coded Leica M lens on the camera, why would you need it listed in the Manual list?   Hence, no need, because its AUTO corrected when the Leica 6 bit lens is attached.   As I wrote the OP in a PM, Adobe Light Room has Voigtlander M lenses profiled and can be corrected at that time.  Thereby simply not be concerned what lens you attached to the camera.  As for the EXIF data, that is a good question.  I don't use no-coded lenses and wouldn't know what is written to the EXIF data...perhaps "Unknown"...or "NADA"..."NOTHING".  (Little humor there...very little I know)  Good idea on the SL2/S too.  r/ Mark

Edited February 15, 2024 by LeicaR10

[Photoworks]

Leica Cameras don't offer any correction unless the camera is able to read the 6-bit coding.

If you put the 28 Lun on the M11 with the latest FW the camera put in the correct lens in the profile. this lens profile has only the option of auto or off. you can not select any other M lens.

If you use a non-coded lens, you have the option of a few 28mm lenses, Not the 28mm Lux. I suppose it only exists in a coded version and does not need a profile.

[hdmesa]

13 minutes ago, LeicaR10 said:

Hdmesa,   That logic might well be correct in your first point.  In Leica thinking, if you have a 6 bit coded Leica M lens on the camera, why would you need it listed in the Manual list?   Hence, no need, because its AUTO corrected when the Leica 6 bit lens is attached.   As I wrote the OP in a PM, Adobe Light Room has Voigtlander M lenses profiled and can be corrected at that time.  Thereby simply not be concerned what lens you attached to the camera.  As for the EXIF data, that is a good question.  I don't use no-coded lenses and wouldn't know what is written to the EXIF data...perhaps "Unknown"...or "NADA"..."NOTHING".  (Little humor there...very little I know)  Good idea on the SL2/S too.  r/ Mark

I think the solution for me will be to physically add the 6-bit code to the lens mounts of my non-Leica lenses. That way I will have access to profiles that are not in the list, and I can decide which 6-bit code will best pair with the non-Leica lens.

[LeicaR10]

Hdmesa,  Always a good idea for coding third party lenses.   The thought occurred to me;  How good are Adobe lens profiles as listed in say, Light Room for that lens brand, and lens focal length?   Personally, I do not know.   If the lens profile for your Voigtlander M lens is listed during import in Lens Correction, it might be far less time consuming and expensive coding the lenses.  Plus the Adobe profile would match your brand of lens and I would think more accurate than using a Leica lens profile jerry rigged for another brand of lens.  Also, Photo Shop might have the other lens profiles listed too.  Just a passing thought.   r/ Mark

[adan]

6 hours ago, hdmesa said:

So the logic is only lenses which were once offered in non-6-bit version are in that list?

Umm - yes. Leica is in the business of selling and supporting LEICA M lenses.

Just a thought-experiment - no answer needed here:

In your own business, would you accept a gift card that a customer had bought from one of your competitors? Or otherwise support your competitors' products and income without compensation, on a regular basis?

Does GM go out of its way to make it easy for users to install Mercedes engines in their GM cars? Or vice-versa?

[Photoworks]

7 hours ago, LeicaR10 said:

Hdmesa,  Always a good idea for coding third party lenses.   The thought occurred to me;  How good are Adobe lens profiles as listed in say, Light Room for that lens brand, and lens focal length?   Personally, I do not know.   If the lens profile for your Voigtlander M lens is listed during import in Lens Correction, it might be far less time consuming and expensive coding the lenses.  Plus the Adobe profile would match your brand of lens and I would think more accurate than using a Leica lens profile jerry rigged for another brand of lens.  Also, Photo Shop might have the other lens profiles listed too.  Just a passing thought.   r/ Mark

It is not always a good idea, some lenses get strong corrections in camera that can NOT change later. Imagine a vignetting, distortion, and flagging correction on the DNG for a 21mm from Leica to a 21 Voigtlander. All the Noctilux get a vignetting correction in camera.

Leica provides 6bit codes for lenses they have tested and profiles, understandable they can not test every lens out there that you may want to attach to this camera.

[hdmesa]

11 hours ago, adan said:

Umm - yes. Leica is in the business of selling and supporting LEICA M lenses.

Just a thought-experiment - no answer needed here:

In your own business, would you accept a gift card that a customer had bought from one of your competitors? Or otherwise support your competitors' products and income without compensation, on a regular basis?

Does GM go out of its way to make it easy for users to install Mercedes engines in their GM cars? Or vice-versa?

All this just because I asked a fucking question? I honestly wanted to understand the purpose of the menu since I obviously had been mistaken in thinking the list contained all the old and new lenses, which it doesn’t it seems. 

[hdmesa]

If it matters, I don’t want or need to use a Leica lens profile with a third party lens. But I do need to be able to tell the camera what focal length is attached to get the following to work on the M11:

— Digital stabilization in live view while magnified to focus

— To enable auto minimum shutter speed feature of Auto ISO

If we were given the same focal length entry menu of the SL2 that it uses to enable IBIS, that would work perfectly. It’s not just for third party lenses that this is needed. One example would be the Leica 40mm f/2 Summicron, which does not have a manual M lens profile available in camera. Selecting a 50mm lens profile for the 40mm lens degrades the features listed above since they are calculated for the wrong focal length.

[RexGig0]

It has been my understanding, for quite some time, that Leica does not offer the ability to select a profile for every Leica lens, in the menus. Some lens profiles simply do not exist, in the menus. I think that I first learned this, when using an authentic coded R adapter, to use authentic Leica R lenses on my original M10, saw the available R profiles pop up in the menu, and learned that not all R lenses had profiles in the menu. (A local camera store had a sizable selection of R lenses.)

Some time later, I learned that not all Leica M lenses have lens profiles. 

Edited February 15, 2024 by RexGig0

[tom0511]

you could apply profiles in LR when converting the raw files. If any of the Leica lens correction profiles in LR work well with the CV lenses. Otherwise you could do manual correction in LR.

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[jdlaing]

The lens list in camera for manual selection are for lenses prior to 6 bit coded lenses. All lenses manufactured with 6 bit codes are not on the list.