Help me choose a Voigtlander 50mm for my SL2-S

[Dr. G]

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I’ve been looking at the Voigtlander 50mm threads and I’m so torn about a manual focus 50 at this point. I will be using it on my SL2-S and currently have the 50mm Summilux-SL and the 50mm APO Summicron-SL but want something to travel with so I can put my SL and Q3 in a relatively small bag together.  Right now I have the following Voigtlanders on my list:

50mm Nokton 1.0
50mm Nokton 1.2
50mm Heliar 1.5
50mm APO-Lanthar 2.0

Each has its strengths and weaknesses. But the things that are highest on my list are ability to used close up with a helicoid (most of the time for product type photography at apertures of 4.0-6.3), subject separation at portrait, 1/2, 3/4 and full body distances, and pleasant out of focus rendering.  I have my CV 40 1.2 and have always been happy with the rendering - I just favor the 50mm focal length.

It would be easy to say just choose the Nokton 1.0 but to my eyes the subject separation looks more defined with the 1.2.  Truth be told, the APO Lanthar also has great separation - but even though it’s larger, my Leica APO 50 can do almost the same things the CV can.  

FWIW, in this situation cost isn’t an issue and any of the above lenses are significantly smaller than what I have now.

Edited January 28, 2024 by Dr. G

[MindsEye]

1 hour ago, Dr. G said:

I’ve been looking at the Voigtlander 50mm threads and I’m so torn about a manual focus 50 at this point. I will be using it on my SL2-S and currently have the 50mm Summilux-SL and the 50mm APO Summicron-SL but want something to travel with so I can put my SL and Q3 in a relatively small bag together.  Right now I have the following Voigtlanders on my list:

50mm Nokton 1.0
50mm Nokton 1.2
50mm Heliar 1.5
50mm APO-Lanthar 2.0

Each has its strengths and weaknesses. But the things that are highest on my list are ability to used close up with a helicoid (most of the time for product type photography at apertures of 4.0-6.3), subject separation at portrait, 1/2, 3/4 and full body distances, and pleasant out of focus rendering.  I have my CV 40 1.2 and have always been happy with the rendering - I just favor the 50mm focal length.

It would be easy to say just choose the Nokton 1.0 but to my eyes the subject separation looks more defined with the 1.2.  Truth be told, the APO Lanthar also has great separation - but even though it’s larger, my Leica APO 50 can do almost the same things the CV can.  

FWIW, in this situation cost isn’t an issue and any of the above lenses are significantly smaller than what I have now.

If you haven't already seen Phillip Reeve's reviews of these lenses, you may find it helpful. He tests them on an M body and Sony, that latter being of no use for an SL but the M is kind of a best case scenario and could be useful for you. He also has a post comparing several very fast 50mm lenses. In that one I believe he/his reviewer found the VM 50mm 1.2 Nokton to be best overall but there are so many criteria and results you can use whatever applies to you.

Guessing you'll happy with almost any of those but good luck on your final choice!

Edited January 28, 2024 by MindsEye
corrected link

[hdmesa]

2 hours ago, Dr. G said:

I’ve been looking at the Voigtlander 50mm threads and I’m so torn about a manual focus 50 at this point. I will be using it on my SL2-S and currently have the 50mm Summilux-SL and the 50mm APO Summicron-SL but want something to travel with so I can put my SL and Q3 in a relatively small bag together.  Right now I have the following Voigtlanders on my list:

50mm Nokton 1.0
50mm Nokton 1.2
50mm Heliar 1.5
50mm APO-Lanthar 2.0

Each has its strengths and weaknesses. But the things that are highest on my list are ability to used close up with a helicoid (most of the time for product type photography at apertures of 4.0-6.3), subject separation at portrait, 1/2, 3/4 and full body distances, and pleasant out of focus rendering.  I have my CV 40 1.2 and have always been happy with the rendering - I just favor the 50mm focal length.

It would be easy to say just choose the Nokton 1.0 but to my eyes the subject separation looks more defined with the 1.2.  Truth be told, the APO Lanthar also has great separation - but even though it’s larger, my Leica APO 50 can do almost the same things the CV can.  

FWIW, in this situation cost isn’t an issue and any of the above lenses are significantly smaller than what I have now.

If you're happy with the 40 1.2, you'll be happy with the 50 1.2. But based on your listed criteria, I would think the latest 50 Summilux-M with close-focus would be a contender provided price is not an issue.

Re: your list, here are some things to watch out for based on what you said your needs were:

50mm Nokton 1.0 – this is longer than you think once it's on the adapter, and it won't save you enough room in your camera bag to be worth using it in place of your 50 APO-SL.
50mm Nokton 1.2 – rendering similar to the 50 Lux but without a floating lens element (FLE) design, so the look up close is a bit more classic/retro
50mm Heliar 1.5 – very distinctive outlined bokeh, almost a special effect lens – do research samples before buying
50mm APO-Lanthar 2.0 – not the best lens for portraits at headshot distance due to the very high micro contrast (you will see very dimensional pores on the subject's face when zoomed in, something that other lenses tend to not exaggerate as much).

Something you might also consider is the Sigma 50mm f/2 DG DN (I-Series) AF lens. It's small and shares some traits with M lenses such as all metal construction and a manual aperture ring. 

[Sandokan]

I like my Nokton f1.0. Also get the Kase magnetic filter holders so you can easily swap and change ND filters. 

Throwing a Curve ball (or a googly/bouncer/wrong'un) would be to consider the Voigtländer 58/1.4 in Nikon F mount. 

Edited January 28, 2024 by Sandokan
removed irrelevant sentence about 40mm lenses

[Ba Erv]

Personally, the Nokton 50mm f1.5 II VM would be on my list too.

[Malabito]

Not very helpful from me, but I just got the Zeiss 50mm Planar f/2.0 for around 550 euros, and it is an amazing lens.

It's sharp, relatively small, and has excellent build quality.

Maybe take a look at it

 

[costa43]

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If the Zeiss doesn’t work out then my choice would be the 50mm f1.2. On the sl2s it has a two in one vibe, wide open a little dreamy but stopped down its super sharp. A good all rounder.

Edited January 31, 2024 by costa43

[keeping_a_balance]

This may help:

 

https://www.47-degree.com/focus-shift/leica-m-50mm-lens-comparison-part-4

 

 

[goodbokeh]

On 1/28/2024 at 10:34 AM, Dr. G said:

I’ve been looking at the Voigtlander 50mm threads and I’m so torn about a manual focus 50 at this point. I will be using it on my SL2-S and currently have the 50mm Summilux-SL and the 50mm APO Summicron-SL but want something to travel with so I can put my SL and Q3 in a relatively small bag together.  Right now I have the following Voigtlanders on my list:

50mm Nokton 1.0
50mm Nokton 1.2
50mm Heliar 1.5
50mm APO-Lanthar 2.0

Each has its strengths and weaknesses. But the things that are highest on my list are ability to used close up with a helicoid (most of the time for product type photography at apertures of 4.0-6.3), subject separation at portrait, 1/2, 3/4 and full body distances, and pleasant out of focus rendering.  I have my CV 40 1.2 and have always been happy with the rendering - I just favor the 50mm focal length.

It would be easy to say just choose the Nokton 1.0 but to my eyes the subject separation looks more defined with the 1.2.  Truth be told, the APO Lanthar also has great separation - but even though it’s larger, my Leica APO 50 can do almost the same things the CV can.  

FWIW, in this situation cost isn’t an issue and any of the above lenses are significantly smaller than what I have now.

Dr.G I have some comments based on your priorities:

The Nokton 50/1.0 has a floating lens group and has through numerous tests demonstrated excellent IQ results in close focus situations for such a high speed lens. I'm not sure how your thoughts of the 50/1.2 having better subject separation ranks in your close up priorities but in hard IQ measures such as resolution and contrast, the 50/1.0 has been shown superior. I use it on my SL2 and it's performance is very solid and what I expected after much research. I can recommend the 50/1.0 without reservation with the caveat that I haven't used it with a close up helicoid, just the M to L adapter.

The APO-Lanthar 2.0 is a superstar lens on the M. I have that lens and use it exclusively on my M10M where it is outstanding. But on the SL platform it comes with mixed recommendations. On the SL2, Fred Miranda didn't find the performance acceptable beyond the central area, he was surprised. Given Fred's results I haven't gotten around to testing it on my SL2 yet. On the SL2-S, forum member hdmesa found that it performed very well...so there you go.

It's not within your Voigtlander lens scope but you also may want to consider a 50mm AF lens on your SL2-S to compliment your Q3. Specifically either the Panasonic 50/1.8 or its Leica SL Asph. 50/2.0 version made in Portugal. They have excellent weather resistance and the same control haptics as you Leica SL lenses. The AF of these lenses are very quick, accurate and silent on the SL2 & SL2-S. The AF is regarded as superior to the 50/2.0 SL APO and they are half the weigh and 2/3rds the size. They focus down to 17.7" / 45 cm. which is pretty standard fare but how does that compare to a M lens with a close up helicoid...

 

Edited February 1, 2024 by goodbokeh
Typo

[Dr. G]

5 hours ago, goodbokeh said:

Dr.G I have some comments based on your priorities:

The Nokton 50/1.0 has a floating lens group and has through numerous tests demonstrated excellent IQ results in close focus situations for such a high speed lens. I'm not sure how your thoughts of the 50/1.2 having better subject separation ranks in your close up priorities but in hard IQ measures such as resolution and contrast, the 50/1.0 has been shown superior. I use it on my SL2 and it's performance is very solid and what I expected after much research. I can recommend the 50/1.0 without reservation with the caveat that I haven't used it with a close up helicoid, just the M to L adapter.

The APO-Lanthar 2.0 is a superstar lens on the M. I have that lens and use it exclusively on my M10M where it is outstanding. But on the SL platform it comes with mixed recommendations. On the SL2, Fred Miranda didn't find the performance acceptable beyond the central area, he was surprised. Given Fred's results I haven't gotten around to testing it on my SL2 yet. On the SL2-S, forum member hdmesa found that it performed very well...so there you go.

It's not within your Voigtlander lens scope but you also may want to consider a 50mm AF lens on your SL2-S to compliment your Q3. Specifically either the Panasonic 50/1.8 or its Leica SL Asph. 50/2.0 version made in Portugal. They have excellent weather resistance and the same control haptics as you Leica SL lenses. The AF of these lenses are very quick, accurate and silent on the SL2 & SL2-S. The AF is regarded as superior to the 50/2.0 SL APO and they are half the weigh and 2/3rds the size. They focus down to 17.7" / 45 cm. which is pretty standard fare but how does that compare to a M lens with a close up helicoid...

 

Thank you.  I’ll take all of this into consideration.  
 

I actually own the 50mm APO Summicron-SL and the 50mm Summilux-SL.  I was just looking for a smaller lens for traveling.  I also own the CV 40 1.2.  I love that lens and maybe I should give it a try on a helicoid.  It looks like the minimum focus distance and magnification ratio is higher than the 50s I’m looking at.  Close up I’m stopping down to around 5.6 in most cases and the 40 1.2 may give me a larger image size on the sensor than one of the 50s at very short distances.  I think it may actually be a little longer than 40, but I’d need to see close ups of the same subjects side by side to make a judgment on it.  Close up there may be some noticeable geometry and perspective differences between the two focal lengths.

[hdmesa]

1 hour ago, Dr. G said:

Thank you.  I’ll take all of this into consideration.  
 

I actually own the 50mm APO Summicron-SL and the 50mm Summilux-SL.  I was just looking for a smaller lens for traveling.  I also own the CV 40 1.2.  I love that lens and maybe I should give it a try on a helicoid.  It looks like the minimum focus distance and magnification ratio is higher than the 50s I’m looking at.  Close up I’m stopping down to around 5.6 in most cases and the 40 1.2 may give me a larger image size on the sensor than one of the 50s at very short distances.  I think it may actually be a little longer than 40, but I’d need to see close ups of the same subjects side by side to make a judgment on it.  Close up there may be some noticeable geometry and perspective differences between the two focal lengths.

The Nikon Z version of the 40 1.2 focuses very close to 0.3m, so you may have good luck using the M version on a macro adapter like you said.