Helmut Posted December 12, 2023 Share #1 Posted December 12, 2023 Advertisement (gone after registration) Hello everyone, I love my M11 but now have unfortunately an issue with the hot shoe or its plastic cover. To photograph my friend and former professor's 90th birthday with the M11 without any noise or blur, I put the Leica Flash SF60 in the hot shoe. Unfortunately, after the photo session, the cover no longer fit on the hot shoe. I reported such a problem to Leica about 5 years ago with the M10 and the hot shoe has been repaired. After the repair, I hadn't used the flash anymore. Today I have to learn from Leica that this issue has still not been solved. My question to all of you: Has anyone made the same experience? If so, it would be more than helpful to contact the Leica Customer Care Service (customer.care@leica-camera.com). This would really help to prioritize this issue in the right direction. I would be very happy to receive any feedback from forum members! Many thanks. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Advertisement Posted December 12, 2023 Posted December 12, 2023 Hi Helmut, Take a look here Issues with the Hot Shoe of the M10 and M11 - Your Feedback is more than welcome! . I'm sure you'll find what you were looking for!
jaapv Posted December 12, 2023 Share #2 Posted December 12, 2023 Does the flash fit? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Helmut Posted December 12, 2023 Author Share #3 Posted December 12, 2023 Yes, the flash fit. I made following suggestions to Leica to solve the problem: 1. Suggestion: Use a larger protective cap a) This suggestion requires a further step in assembly. After the individual production has been completed, the specialist should use a master flash in the final inspection and insert it into the hot shoe so that the hot shoe expands accordingly. The new protective cap with the changed dimensions should then be used. b) Leica could also include a second, i.e. replacement, protective cap in the M11 set that is slightly larger. 2. Suggestion: Use a case hardened spring From what I've heard, the function of a built-in spring in the hot shoe could affect its tolerances if it is used for the first time. Here the spring should be case hardened. 3. Suggestion: Use a protective cap with a magnet If this spring is too small for case hardening, a magnet on the underside of the protective cap could solve the problem. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jgeenen Posted December 12, 2023 Share #4 Posted December 12, 2023 Helmut, does that mean that after using the SF60 on your M11 the hot shoe cap sits loose and no longer rests firmly? I unfortunately cannot replicate your issue - I don‘t own a SF60, only cheap flash lights and use the thumb grip (which does not wear out) since M9 days Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jaapv Posted December 12, 2023 Share #5 Posted December 12, 2023 1 hour ago, Helmut said: Yes, the flash fit. I made following suggestions to Leica to solve the problem: 1. Suggestion: Use a larger protective cap a) This suggestion requires a further step in assembly. After the individual production has been completed, the specialist should use a master flash in the final inspection and insert it into the hot shoe so that the hot shoe expands accordingly. The new protective cap with the changed dimensions should then be used. b) Leica could also include a second, i.e. replacement, protective cap in the M11 set that is slightly larger. 2. Suggestion: Use a case hardened spring From what I've heard, the function of a built-in spring in the hot shoe could affect its tolerances if it is used for the first time. Here the spring should be case hardened. 3. Suggestion: Use a protective cap with a magnet If this spring is too small for case hardening, a magnet on the underside of the protective cap could solve the problem. Suggestion: buy half a dozen hot shoe covers on eBay for 5$. I am always losing them. The alternative is to not use them at all. 2 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Helmut Posted December 12, 2023 Author Share #6 Posted December 12, 2023 Yes. I used the SF60 and since that time I have an issue. So far I am in contact with further 5 M User who have the same issue. As mentioned: I had this problem with my M10 as well. Leica is doing nothing. What a shame…. 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jeri Posted December 12, 2023 Share #7 Posted December 12, 2023 Advertisement (gone after registration) Gaffer tape around the flash cover will solve the problem. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
bcaslis Posted December 13, 2023 Share #8 Posted December 13, 2023 I've seen this too. The issue is the metal runners underneath the two sides are easily bent and then the cover is loose. If you use a very small flathead screwdriver you can bend them back into the more springy position and the cover will not be as loose. I've never seen this in another camera but it happens on my M11 also. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anbaric Posted December 13, 2023 Share #9 Posted December 13, 2023 There are lots of threads about this issue, usually with the advice to bend the springs back up or use tape, e.g.: Never seen this on a Nikon... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Patrick1955 Posted December 13, 2023 Share #10 Posted December 13, 2023 2 hours ago, bcaslis said: I've seen this too. The issue is the metal runners underneath the two sides are easily bent and then the cover is loose. If you use a very small flathead screwdriver you can bend them back into the more springy position and the cover will not be as loose. I've never seen this in another camera but it happens on my M11 also. Me too on both M10 and M10-R after trying a thumbsup - very relaxed about it. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
fotografr Posted December 13, 2023 Share #11 Posted December 13, 2023 It's a continuing issue but one that is easily dealt with. Pressure on the clips from any source--the metal hot show cover, the Match Technical Thumbs Up, the Leica Thumb Grip--all can cause a flattening of the clips. I have a set of small precision screw drivers and to put a curve back in the clips on both my M10-R and M10M I slide the smallest flathead screwdriver under the clip and hold the unattached end of the clip down with the other one, then gently bend the clip back up. Once back on, the thumb grips tend to stay tight for a long time. Still, it would be nice if this could be resolved by one of the design engineers at Leica. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
fotografr Posted December 13, 2023 Share #12 Posted December 13, 2023 1 hour ago, Anbaric said: There are lots of threads about this issue, usually with the advice to bend the springs back up or use tape, e.g.: Never seen this on a Nikon... Probably never used a thumbs up on a Nikon. I recall when using my old Nikon's that when initially sliding a flash unit it would be somewhat loose until being tightened down by the wheel on the flash. Same with my Canons. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
fotografr Posted December 13, 2023 Share #13 Posted December 13, 2023 (edited) 5 hours ago, jeri said: Gaffer tape around the flash cover will solve the problem. It won't solve any problem if the person wants to attach a thumb grip after the spring had been flattened. The thumb grip won't hold tight. The springs must be bent back into a curved position. I've found that once this is done the issue is resolved as long as the grip isn't repeatedly removed. If someone is going to use a flash on a regular basis, the clip will have to be dealt with every few times. I would agree that the best permanent solution is probably to use a hardened steel clip. Edited December 13, 2023 by fotografr Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
dem331 Posted December 13, 2023 Share #14 Posted December 13, 2023 10 hours ago, jaapv said: Suggestion: buy half a dozen hot shoe covers on eBay for 5$. I am always losing them. The alternative is to not use them at all. I don’t use them at all. Question: just the other day in the pouring rain (SL2), I was wondering if I was running the risk of a short circuit of the camera. Is this a risk? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
250swb Posted December 13, 2023 Share #15 Posted December 13, 2023 I think this issue is why somebody invented an alternative to the Thumbs Up grip. Going way back there were reports of Thumbs Up putting stress on the hot shoes of other cameras so it didn't seem like a good idea to use them on Leica's which don't exactly have a beefy top plate in the first place. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cologne_1961 Posted December 13, 2023 Share #16 Posted December 13, 2023 vor 8 Stunden schrieb jeri: Gaffer tape around the flash cover will solve the problem. Hi everbody, i have the same issue on my M11 as well on my formerly owned M10. Gaffer Tape around the flash cover???? on a +$8000 camera seems to be a joke, I would expect a proper solution from Leica on this one. Would you expect an Rolls Royce owner to fix parts with gaffer tape to not lose any equipment🫣? 1 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cologne_1961 Posted December 13, 2023 Share #17 Posted December 13, 2023 Same issue on m M10 and M11. Hey Leica, develop a proper solution or copy with pride Canon or Nikon or any other😛 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
KFo Posted December 13, 2023 Share #18 Posted December 13, 2023 Are you sure that the spring clip is still in place? On my M10P, the clip disappeared after monkeying around with various Leica flashes. Since then, flashes fit loosely in the hotshoe but don't fall out (there is a retainer pin). Of course the hotshoe cover no longer lives securely so I don't use it. It doesn't matter to me at all. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Helmut Posted December 13, 2023 Author Share #19 Posted December 13, 2023 Hello everyone, Thank you very much for your interesting and instructive feedback. It would be great if you could report your issue to Leica (customer.care@leica-camera.com) so that it can be finally solved. After all, we paid a lot of money for the great cameras and that's why we expect even small things like this to be solved. That's why it would be more than useful if you let Leica know your dissatisfaction by email (customer.care@leica-camera.com). Thank you all very much again! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jaapv Posted December 13, 2023 Share #20 Posted December 13, 2023 On 12/13/2023 at 8:31 AM, dem331 said: I don’t use them at all. Question: just the other day in the pouring rain (SL2), I was wondering if I was running the risk of a short circuit of the camera. Is this a risk? Not really. Even on non-weather-sealed cameras the hot shoe is reasonably water resistant. The weak point is that it is secured by four really small screws from the underside. I would be hesitant to use a hefty flash like the SF 60. Disclosure; I once broke the screws damaging the top plate by sitting on an M240 with SF 24 D. Not cheap… 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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