Leica CL…..dynamic range.

[davidrc]

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“Last light”

The dynamic range of a CL is quite something.  PP and cropped, plus original DNG from the card shown first.

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Edited November 28, 2023 by davidrc
Text edit

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[mikeLD]

Fantasic, thank you so much.

[davidrc]

22 hours ago, mikeLD said:

Fantasic, thank you so much.

You are welcome. I have found that if you pitch exposure in the middle of the two extremes, and the extremes are within the DR, then you can retrieve both ends in LR.  The shadows suffered a bit here as the boundaries were perhaps a little compromised.

It’s not an exact science, you’d probably need a spot meter to be sure. With practice you’d learn to guessimate most situations.

it’s fun, beats exposure merging.  It’s like the old darkroom days.

 

On 11/26/2023 at 5:49 AM, dpitt said:

I do not have the Summicron 23, but i think the difference will be very small. On my TL2 the Elmarit 21mm M feels like a 35mm to me, not at all like a ultra wide. It is slower, but I do not mind too much. It is hard to get shallow DOF anyway and both the CL and TL2 have excellent high ISO performance.

From what I see, the quality of the Elmarit-M 21 ASPH is better than that of the Summicron 23 TL. Unfortunately I do not have it to compare directly.
These shots are with the non-ASPH 21mm Elmarit-M on the TL2, to give you an idea of the FOV. I have yet to try the ASPH 21mm on the TL2, but I know it will be sharper and have more contrast.

 

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[geoffreyg]

One of the joys of the CL is the extreme recovery available. I get it in my head that its a 5 yr old APS-C sensor and that its compromised, then go use it and am quite surprised at what it can recover. Just got to tell the self "it's really akin to an M240".... and enjoy. 

[davidrc]

20 minutes ago, geoffreyg said:

One of the joys of the CL is the extreme recovery available. I get it in my head that its a 5 yr old APS-C sensor and that its compromised, then go use it and am quite surprised at what it can recover. Just got to tell the self "it's really akin to an M240".... and enjoy. 

Compromised?????  How?  Comparing any camera to another of not the same “type” is misleading yourself.

1. The M240 was full frame. 

2. Had a different sensor.

I have had a M240 briefly and it had a different look to the files.  Since the effective detail in the files from a 100% point of view for example was not dissimilar, then the CL is punching technically above its weight.

I can say quite emphatically since using various digital camera from Canon and Fuji and seen examples of others’ native files, 

the CL is the only camera I can use without having to alter the WB in post much at all.

The camera is a joy on many levels….except for:

Lack of true BBF.
Ridiculously large histogram in EVF….laughable!! Why Leica?

And…one that is but work round….watch out for hand held shake below 100 speed.  60 is doable with some lens and care.

That is not bad for any camera and for my use only 2 points which grate.  Particularly the histogram…stupid design.

 

[jaapv]

I for one enjoy a clear and precise histogram in the VF.  It is my main exposure tool. However if it bothers it can be switched off.  

[davidrc]

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4 hours ago, jaapv said:

I for one enjoy a clear and precise histogram in the VF.  It is my main exposure tool. However if it bothers it can be switched off.  

Jaapv, it is the size of it…too large.  Blocks far too much of the image given how great the CL evf is. Could be half the size and it would still be easy to see.
Why would anyone want to remove an aid to exposure??  Not a great idea that.

FYI, the histogram can be moved to the bottom right hand corner. 😉  on the LCD press and drag it down the bottom I believe.

did it when I first got it.  If users find it the same encumbrance of size, depending on what you shoot, bottom right may be a better place for some. 

[jaapv]

Maybe, but I find the size just fine. I hate the post stamp style of Panasonic for instance. A marter of preference. 

[davidrc]

Just now, jaapv said:

Maybe, but I find the size just fine. I hate the post stamp style of Panasonic for instance. 

Each to his own. But I like to compose a photo. 😉

I wouldn’t know, never used one.  Sounds small.

[davidrc]

6 minutes ago, davidrc said:

Each to his own. But I like to compose a photo. 😉

I wouldn’t know, never used one.  Sounds small.

However, I have forgotten to add that the real issue and totally ridiculous point, and shows how bad designers can be, is that
if you observe the size of the histogram in ratio to the EVF frame and frame of the LCD…..it is not the same, nor is it the same shape!!

on the LCD you could fit about 5 of it across the LCD frame.  On the EVF the size of it fits little more than 4x across !”
Huge difference.

I think you are judging the LCD alone….which is not bad at all on size.

Of course, now i’ve mentioned the difference it’ll probably drive you or anyone else not noticing mad!

sorry! 

[davidrc]

Edit….to move the histogram to the bottom corner, you double tap the LCD screen. (Not drag it as first noted)

I would bet not a lot know this.

Try it.  It may suit you better.

[davidrc]

Edit….to move the histogram to the bottom corner, you double tap the LCD screen. (Not drag it as first noted)

I would bet not a lot know this.

Try it.  It may suit you better.

 

footnote……

Good grief…..with the histogram in the bottom right corner, after exposure, it jumps back to the top right (picture playback) then back down to the right.  How annoying.

it beggars belief just how daft software designers can be and what they miss (or how you cannot implement everything on a chip?)

the latter you would hope, because to me functionality and ease of use sits right up there with DR and IQ.

Beta products abound….relying on firmware updates.  Leica not alone.

 

 

 

[jaapv]

Well it is a total irrelevancy to me. 

[davidrc]

2 hours ago, jaapv said:

Well it is a total irrelevancy to me. 

Well, that’s a relief.

[SrMi]

I also find a live histogram too intrusive and not helpful enough (on any camera), and I prefer to use the highlight clipping instead. I assume that most photographers use histograms to check whether highlights are clipping (adjusting the exposure). Also, highlights clipping can be shown constantly or only with a shutter half-press. That is a beneficial feature that only Leica cameras seem to have.

P.S.: I have been playing recently with Sony a7cr and Nikon Zf, and it is astounding how great CL is and how great CL's images are.

[davidrc]

4 hours ago, SrMi said:

I also find a live histogram too intrusive and not helpful enough (on any camera), and I prefer to use the highlight clipping instead. I assume that most photographers use histograms to check whether highlights are clipping (adjusting the exposure). Also, highlights clipping can be shown constantly or only with a shutter half-press. That is a beneficial feature that only Leica cameras seem to have.

P.S.: I have been playing recently with Sony a7cr and Nikon Zf, and it is astounding how great CL is and how great CL's images are.

The ratio size of the histogram in relation to the EVF and LCD is not the same.  It intrudes less, is smaller on the LCD.

It is more apparent on the CL (perhaps all leica?) that if your scene contains few or none higher values, then it will take a lot of overexposure to push the histogram values way to the right.  And that is something which needs guarding against because it is very easy to mistakenly overexpose with the histogram. If you find yourself pushing to the right, check what is in the scene.
Not so the low values.

This is all because Leica seems to set exposure to guard against clipping which many of the cameras are prone to, or so is my understanding from reports over the years.  Basically, think slide film.

Just using the clipping is in my short time, is now looking a reasonable prospect.

My advice is to do what I am starting to do. (With the aid of clipping if desired).
Which is, using my long experience to “read” the scene as it is. Use the exposure meter in the camera and adjust according to the scene. The exposure scale is very accurate, probably just as or more so than the histogram.

When using the multi method, not the centre weighted metering, the multi will take all in and average out.
This is very accurate, and then you can adjust reading the scene if needed.  And you will soon learn and taking pictures will become second nature.

The preview will change very little, as will the histogram, but you will soon learn to trust your experience as to how much you need to add or subtract exposure.  And of course the CL has amazing latitude.  Use a hand held meter, and set and forget, is another method.

All these skills are not being taught, and should be.  Automation should be used but not relied upon.

The more I use my CL, the more I will have to adapt the use of other digital cameras but the enjoyment will not be the same.

It may be easier for me, as I have 40 plus years of experience, but digital made me lazy and in the end needed to take back control…..to be faster!!  And be enjoyable again.  The CL does that like no other. 😀

That could be what you are experiencing.

…….

The same thing could be applied to M cameras?….which is want I tried a few years ago with a M240.

I don’t think I was ready and understood fully what I needed.  Sadly, the 240 ergonomics and using the rangefinder (mainly the latter) and the smallness of a lens did not suit.  Where as everything (almost) of the CL does.

The hardest thing about photography can sometimes be finding what you really need.

Edited December 20, 2023 by davidrc
Typos and additions.

[pocholin]

Wow, I can't believe that I had to read this post to learn the CL has HDR mode!!!

I just tried it and one must keep perfectly still as the camera doesn't seem to provide any auto-alignment. Other than that, it works great, much nicer pictures! I guess I'll use that this mode if I an ensure keeping the camera still or I have my tripod/monopod. Post processing software does a great job aligning and eliminating ghost when there's people or object movement in those exposure bracketing pictures...so, there's some circumstances when I'll continue using bracketing but, all in all, HDR is a great find!

[davidrc]

HDR ? No it wasn’t.

the example is simply the edited version (2nd photo) from one exposure (first)

by lightroom pp of highlight and shadow adjustment.

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[jaapv]

On 11/30/2023 at 10:53 PM, davidrc said:

You are welcome. I have found that if you pitch exposure in the middle of the two extremes, and the extremes are within the DR, then you can retrieve both ends in LR.  The shadows suffered a bit here as the boundaries were perhaps a little compromised.

It’s not an exact science, you’d probably need a spot meter to be sure. With practice you’d learn to guessimate most situations.

it’s fun, beats exposure merging.  It’s like the old darkroom days.

 

The Histogram in the viewfinder makes it something close to exact science. It shows clipping very clearly by a spike against the righthand boundary. Together with clipping warning you can expose very precisely. Shoot for as full a histogram as you can manage. The less bunching up against one of the sides, the better.
The camera has indeed a pretty good DR, just one EV value behind the SL601. 

 

22 hours ago, pocholin said:

Wow, I can't believe that I had to read this post to learn the CL has HDR mode!!!

I just tried it and one must keep perfectly still as the camera doesn't seem to provide any auto-alignment. Other than that, it works great, much nicer pictures! I guess I'll use that this mode if I an ensure keeping the camera still or I have my tripod/monopod. Post processing software does a great job aligning and eliminating ghost when there's people or object movement in those exposure bracketing pictures...so, there's some circumstances when I'll continue using bracketing but, all in all, HDR is a great find!

If you bracket and use Photomerge in Photoshop, you do not really need a tripod.

[davidrc]

6 hours ago, jaapv said:

The Histogram in the viewfinder makes it something close to exact science. It shows clipping very clearly by a spike against the righthand boundary. Together with clipping warning you can expose very precisely. Shoot for as full a histogram as you can manage. The less bunching up against one of the sides, the better.
The camera has indeed a pretty good DR, just one EV value behind the SL601. 

 

If you bracket and use Photomerge in Photoshop, you do not really need a tripod.

I just know the more I get used to it, the more I love it.