Leica M11 / M11-M / M11-P: Firmware Update v.2.0.2

[scott kirkpatrick]

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No one seems to be separating the possible issues into taking and storing the shot (Leica), transfer to Adobe (both) and the several versions of Lightroom (pure Adobe issue.  Could you go back to the first issue and see if the file is actually empty or defective?  Just plug it into the laptop, and check with Finder or its equivalent.  Can it be read and displayed by some more primitive input path? 

Edited December 3, 2023 by scott kirkpatrick

[charlesphoto99]

22 minutes ago, scott kirkpatrick said:

No one seems to be separating the possible issues into taking and storing the shot (Leica), transfer to Adobe (both) and the several versions of Lightroom (pure Adobe issue.  Could you go back to the first issue and see if the file is actually empty or defective?  Just plug it into the laptop, and check with Finder or its equivalent.  Can it be read and displayed by some more primitive input path? 

Look at the screen shots posted - they are of Mac finder windows, nothing to do with Adobe. 

Five second wake up?? So glad I dodged this bullet. Lets see what the M12 brings...

[hdmesa]

On 12/1/2023 at 8:43 PM, Leica Filmmatic said:

...I am still using a UHS-1 card. 

Please treat your $9K M11 to a UHS-II card 🫣

[bilbrown]

2 hours ago, Tailwagger said:

With the teething pains of the M11, what I see is a classic case of existing, heretofore rarely, perhaps never seen before, problems, surface unexpectedly.  Leica, as is so often the case when dealing with difficult to reproduce software problems, is currently dealing with them by playing Whack-a-Mole rather than taking a deep breadth and doing a comprehensive audit and rethink. Not surprising given the size of their operations.  But as my dear father use to remind me from time to time, 'when a system is working, all you really know is that the sum of the bugs currently is zero'. The problems we are experiencing here often come to the fore as the result of altering a key assumption or two and all of sudden finding out that what you thought was a stable system, in fact isnt.  They, and us as well, seem to be re-learning this the hard way.

In short, yes.

The "comprehensive audit and rethink" will be the M12, or M11R or whatever comes after.

Until then it's going to be FW fixes and patches. Things turned off, added or removed to make the camera more consistently stable across all use types that it is designed for.

An SL2 or M10R is going to fundamentally work "better" because its end of life cycle is already hit or about to. We have likely another year or two with the M11 bodies, then we get a camera that was made in-person instead of over Zoom during a global pandemic.

I think, all things considered, the M11 is pretty fantastic. 

17 hours ago, bcaslis said:

I have not had any issues since my first issue with two pictures becoming corrupt on an M11. I don't turn off FOTOS, I don't change how I use the camera. I've shot now about 120 photos on an M11 and M11 monochrom since that first issue both using 2.0.2.

So far, since the 2.0.2 update I haven't either. I am doing a pretty extensive shoot today and bringing my S or SL2 but going to lean on the M11-P to see what happens.

 

 

I'm honestly going to shoot some new Harman Phoenix 200 as well, so maybe I will flip gears and love my M-A again!

[Smudgerer]

I don't have the any of the M11 versions, I looked seriously at the M11 thinking I'd upgrade but pulled to a stop at M10-R and M10-M and I have been recently thinking that maybe I should have stopped at the M10-P, ( not though with the M10-M which is a different kettle of fish altogether and a camera that's proven to have been a great choice for me to have traded up to, ( from the M9M )), the M10-P to be honest had way good enough an output for what I needed in a digital M camera and frankly I think that is true for most people who enter into and use the digital M system. There's something about the increasingly electronically complicated M series of cameras that says to me that they are heading in the wrong direction, maybe not for a certain core of their buying customers many of who want the next best thing and more, gimme more, gimme more, megapixels, but certainly for me. Complicated systems beget complicated problems, so is Leica moving away from the idea of producing fine, simply engineered cameras that could be used for a photographer's lifetime to products like so many electronically driven devices that nowadays have a relatively short, finite, useful life? Yes I feel that is so........Even with the digital Leica's I have I look at their probable life expectancy and my own and wonder who will beat who to the finish line, it shouldn't be like that, it wasn't so just 2-3 decades back but that's the consumerist life / swamp that we are in right now. Of course this "progress" such as we see in the M11 and the M11P will not stop, there may well be a EVF-M in the future, as sure as heck there will be a M12 with probably the deletion of the mechanical shutter and along with whatever else new wonders to come there will I'm sure be creaking "catch-up" software problems that will require a new round of "early adopters" to trouble-shoot the bugs that escaped inside the plush new boxes from Wetzlar. Leica does not in my opinion have a good software / firmware record, theirs seems to be a game of throwing it out there less than completely thought through firmware-wise  and seeing what happens, which is as much of a frustration for those that buy the products as it is a pity for such a company.

[J S H]

43 minutes ago, Smudgerer said:

Leica does not in my opinion have a good software / firmware record, theirs seems to be a game of throwing it out there less than completely thought through firmware-wise  and seeing what happens, which is as much of a frustration for those that buy the products as it is a pity for such a company.

Agreed on this. The situation seems to be getting worse. Unfortunately, I think Leica are probably doing the best they can and engineering a perfect Hardware/Firmware ecosystem is actually beyond their capabilities (likely due to the complexity of the M11 body and possibly some poor engineering choices that we may never know the truth about). This does not excuse their incompetence - it's very disappointing that they have officially admitted their inability to solve the M11 DNG corruption problems and are only able to promise a future fix. However that doesn't affect every camera, as I have never seen a corrupt DNG. Firmware 1.6.1 fixed my M11 issues and the camera has been dependable since that point. 

[Photoworks]

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Well i think i am going back to FW 1.6.1

I should often Tethered to capture one on iPad, the new firmware changed some settings in 2.0.2. It is necessary to set camera connection to Tethered to get it to work, and it doesn't save it to SD card at the same time. what is more annoying it the fact that as soon you unplug the camera you can shoot until you go into the menu and set connection to something else.
Why this happened I don't know, probably to get some more compatibility for FOTOS app and Lightroom.

As a Capture one user I was happy with setting the camera to PTP connection and shoot into SD card and iPad/Computer at the same time. If the 33ft cable was in the way, unplug and keep shooting with SD card. Liive was simple.

My connections to Fotos app where always with wifi anyway. 

For myself there are no reason to keep firmware 2.0.2

[sdk]

Seemingly no problem with the update on my M11. I was not having any problems with the 2.0.1 firmware either, and I never have had a corrupt DNG from this camera unlike my M9-P, which occasionally used to have them. I use OWC Atlas UHS-II SD cards which have been very reliable in my Nikon D850 also. I have also used Lexar Gold UHS-II cards without issues. 

[maxpower]

9 minutes ago, Photoworks said:

It is necessary to set camera connection to Tethered to get it to work, and it doesn't save it to SD card at the same time. what is more annoying it the fact that as soon you unplug the camera you can shoot until you go into the menu and set connection to something else.

I noticed that CaptureOne 16.3.2 included a new preference "Save to Camera Memory Card and Capture One when tethering" - it doesn't mention Leica specifically but I'm curious if that maybe addresses it

[Photoworks]

10 minutes ago, maxpower said:

I noticed that CaptureOne 16.3.2 included a new preference "Save to Camera Memory Card and Capture One when tethering" - it doesn't mention Leica specifically but I'm curious if that maybe addresses it

The NEW function in the FW 2.0.2 is to connect as Tether menu. As soon you do that the camera does not save the images elsewhere, not on the card not IN the camera.

what you are talking about is dedicated for some cameras like canon.

But you were able to work if fine with fw 1.6.1.
I assume that many people had issues connecting and downloading images in lightroom, and that is why the changes. I am honestly mostly using SD cards, so I don't see the need to download cards true the camera.

[marchyman]

1 hour ago, Photoworks said:

Well i think i am going back to FW 1.6.1

I'm curious... how?  AFAIK there is no way to load older firmware.

I have no need as I've been lucky enough to not experience any of the various reported issues.  Maybe camera?  Maybe user?  Maybe combination of the two?

[Tailwagger]

5 hours ago, charlesphoto99 said:

Look at the screen shots posted - they are of Mac finder windows, nothing to do with Adobe. 

And the file is reported as 0 bytes, as I mentioned in my previous post and the image I posted shows clearly. So yes, with the caveat I mentioned previously regarding Adobe automounting and reading the SD card, this issue has nothing to do with Adobe.

Edited December 3, 2023 by Tailwagger

[fcracer]

After updating the firmware,I had an odd issue where frames would be randomly overexposed when using the rangefinder. The solution was to completely reset the camera including user profiles and Fotos settings. After that, the camera works as intended. 

[hjddd]

When Leica can release a relatively perfect firmware for all the cameras of M11 series？

[lct]

4 hours ago, hjddd said:

When Leica can release a relatively perfect firmware for all the cameras of M11 series？

Took about 6 years (2013-2019) for the M240 if i remember well.

[douglas fry]

The snag is, if you find yourself with a faulty M11 (in my case live view didnt work at all, and the camera would freeze very frequently), Leica are quoting 5 months repair even with the camera well within the warranty period, no loaner or refund is offered (I asked) even if registered as a professional photographer with Leica. That is pretty poor service.

[Warton]

7 minutes ago, douglas fry said:

The snag is, if you find yourself with a faulty M11 (in my case live view didnt work at all, and the camera would freeze very frequently), Leica are quoting 5 months repair even with the camera well within the warranty period, no loaner or refund is offered (I asked) even if registered as a professional photographer with Leica. That is pretty poor service.

An old retired lawyer is on his way to dismiss you

[douglas fry]

9 minutes ago, Warton said:

An old retired lawyer is on his way to dismiss you

The Citizens Advice Bureau here in the UK said that 5 months is well beyond what can be considered a 'reasonable repair time', which as a consumer is within my rights. So I will wait and see what their response is. 

I shoot nearly every day so to keep the business going I need my rangefinders, so resorted to buy an M11-P to keep the workflow and keep the clients. Once this camera is repaired I need to sell it ASAP, as it is a big debt to carry for a small business.

[lct]

20 minutes ago, Warton said:

An old retired lawyer is on his way to dismiss you

This one would advise to check what the applicable laws say. Some of them allow for replacing or refunding the faulty camera. BTW there is no contract between Leica and camera owners. Only contracts are between Leica and dealers, and between dealers and owners. Then, from the part of camera owners, the persons to ask for are dealers in the first place.

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[Warton]

1 hour ago, douglas fry said:

The Citizens Advice Bureau here in the UK said that 5 months is well beyond what can be considered a 'reasonable repair time', which as a consumer is within my rights. So I will wait and see what their response is. 

I shoot nearly every day so to keep the business going I need my rangefinders, so resorted to buy an M11-P to keep the workflow and keep the clients. Once this camera is repaired I need to sell it ASAP, as it is a big debt to carry for a small business.

relax dude. I was joking by "old retired lawyer". I meant lct