Upgrading M10-R to M11P.. decision decision decision

[Nick Lo]

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Did anyone upgrade from M10-R to M11P? What made you move up to 11P? What are your thoughts and experience after the upgrade? 

Here are a few specific things I want to hear some advice/sharing:

1. Do you find the color and temperature of the  DNG and SOOC Jpeg from 11P warmer and more vibrant than those from M10R? Do you like it? 

2. How significant is the difference between the two models in term of their high ISO performance say 3200 and up. 

3. Do you find the back LCD on the M11P much sharper than the M10R's

4. How slow the M11-P starts ( from off to on) and is ready to take shots comparing to M10R 

5. When using RF, Is the metering on M11-P works better ( more accurate) than M10-R's center weight metering. Are there any accuracy difference in term of metering between the two when using LCD to take pictures

6. Do you still need screen protector on 11-P? ( Is the sapphire back screen scratch resist?)

7. Are the shutter sound on both models the same or comparable in term of quietness?

8. Is there any problem using third party lenses on M11-P ( mainly Voigtlander's 2.8 ultron II and the Voigtlander 21/1.4)

9. Any freezing issue on the M11-P? I heard that the M11-P  have issue with the FOTO app after the recent FW update and that may lead to freeze?

10. Do you have to increase the minimum shutter speed to keep images free of camera shake blur after the upgrade? If so, increased by how much? 

Thank you!!

 

Edited November 15, 2023 by Nick Lo

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[hjddd]

just wait for the new firmware release of M11 series……

[don daniel]

I made the switch from the M10-R to the M11, not to the M11-P. I'm only saying something here that I can judge. But a lot of things also apply to the M11-P.

1. The colour temperature is similar. The big difference in white balance lies in the tint: the files from the M11, whether DNG or JPG, all have a magenta tint, which many here perceive and celebrate as particularly warm and vivid. For me, this is a bug that should be fixed with a firmware update. But I'm still waiting for that. 
2. The superiority of the new sensor is evident in the high-ISO performance: more resolution with less noise, which is remarkable and fun.
3 I can't make any comparative observations about the sharpness of the LCD display. 
4. As I will only install the new firmware when it is reasonably free of bugs and in the best case also contains a corrected white balance, I don't know anything about it that could help you. The M11-P could also differ from my M11 in this respect. However, I get on well with the starting speed of the M11.
5. So far I've got on just as well with centre-weighted metering as with the new metering that reads the entire sensor. 
6. I put a display protection on the M11. I would certainly not protect the sapphire glass of the M11-P any further.
7. The shutter noise on the M11 is not louder, but it rattles when the camera is switched on because the shutter opens. When the photo is actually taken, you can hear it for longer because the shutter closes again first. That doesn't bother me. It also doesn't lead to a relevant delay in the shutter release.
8 The M11-P could react differently than the M11. I also use Voigtländer lenses on the M11 without any problems.
9. The tiresome subject of freezes! I can't say anything about the M11-P. I experience freezes very, very rarely with the M11. It could also happen with the M10-R.
10 I don't use any faster shutter speeds in the critical range for camera shake with the M11 than I used to with the M10-R.

[hjddd]

54 minutes ago, don daniel said:

我从 M10-R 切换到 M11，而不是 M11-P。我在这里只是说一些我可以判断的事情。但很多事情也适用于 M11-P。

1、色温相似。白平衡的最大差异在于色调：M11 中的文件，无论是 DNG 还是 JPG，都具有洋红色色调，许多人认为并庆祝为特别温暖和生动。对我来说，这是一个应该通过固件更新来修复的错误。但我还在等待。 
2. 新传感器的优越性体现在高ISO性能上：分辨率更高，噪点更少，这是非凡且有趣的。
3 我无法对液晶显示屏的清晰度进行任何比较观察。 
4. 由于我只会在新固件相当没有错误并且在最好的情况下还包含校正的白平衡时才会安装新固件，因此我不知道任何可以帮助您的信息。M11-P 在这方面也可能与我的 M11 有所不同。不过，我对M11的启动速度很满意。
5. 到目前为止，我对中央重点测光的使用效果与读取整个传感器的新测光效果一样好。 
6.我给M11加了显示屏保护。我肯定不会再保护 M11-P 的蓝宝石玻璃了。
7. M11的快门噪音并不大，但开机时因为快门打开而发出嘎嘎声。当实际拍摄照片时，您可以听到更长的时间，因为快门首先再次关闭。这并不困扰我。它也不会导致快门释放的相关延迟。
8 M11-P 的反应可能与 M11 不同。我还在 M11 上使用福伦达镜头，没有任何问题。
9.冻结这个令人厌烦的话题！关于 M11-P 我无话可说。我在使用 M11 时很少遇到卡顿的情况。M10-R 也可能发生这种情况。
10 在相机抖动的临界范围内，我使用 M11 时并没有使用比使用 M10-R 更快的快门速度。

All agreed ！very valuable opinions！

[MyLeicaWorld]

Wait for the M12 .. keep the M10r .. 

[rfunnell]

I have made the change from the M10-R to the M11-P 2 weeks ago.

1.  The colour temperature from the DNG is definitely less warm and attractive than the M10-R and having played with everything for the past 2 weeks have put a temporary fix in place  by creating a preset from previous M10-R and having Lightroom apply it on importing the images from the camera and this works perfectly. I am hoping that a future firmware upgrade may make this native.

2.  ISO improvement is significant in my experience.

3.  Sharpness on the LCD to me appears similar.

4.  Slightly slower to start than the M10-R but to me this is not a show stopper as I leave it in standby more now with the vastly improved battery.

5.   Metering seems to have more options and I am still getting my head around these.

6.  Sapphire glass is tough and no need for further protection in my opinion.

7.  Shutter sounds are comparable  and of course there is the option of silent when using the hybrid choice with the M11 and M11-P.

8.  Can't give info on other lenses as I only have Leica.

9.  Freezing only occurred very very infrequently on my M10-R and in the 2 weeks with the M11-P has only occurred once (whilst using the Visoflex 2) .

10.  I can't say I have had to increase shutter speed to avoid camera shake but I am more aware of how my  SL2-S helps me in  with it's  image stabilisation technology whereas previously I had taken it for granted.

                 Love the weight of the M11-P compared to the M10-R

 

[Photoworks]

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9 hours ago, Nick Lo said:

 

1. Do you find the color and temperature of the  DNG and SOOC Jpeg from 11P warmer and more vibrant than those from M10R? Do you like it? 

Color in post are very similar, M11 looks a little better to me, sometime JPG look blue. 

2. How significant is the difference between the two models in term of their high ISO performance say 3200 and up. 

It is better by 1 stop, but everything that is on M11 is on M11p

3. Do you find the back LCD on the M11P much sharper than the M10R's

the good part is that the M11 screen does not get as hot as M10R

4. How slow the M11-P starts ( from off to on) and is ready to take shots comparing to M10R 

Just read in the forum, perseption is not accurate, but the speed is the same, and it wary by the cards you are using.

5. When using RF, Is the metering on M11-P works better ( more accurate) than M10-R's center weight metering. Are there any accuracy difference in term of metering between the two when using LCD to take pictures

Yes, i don't. use center weight meter anymore.

6. Do you still need screen protector on 11-P? ( Is the sapphire back screen scratch resist?)

P for protection

7. Are the shutter sound on both models the same or comparable in term of quietness?

it works, don't care

8. Is there any problem using third party lenses on M11-P ( mainly Voigtlander's 2.8 ultron II and the Voigtlander 21/1.4)

It works, just have to set lens manualy

9. Any freezing issue on the M11-P? I heard that the M11-P  have issue with the FOTO app after the recent FW update and that may lead to freeze?

Fotos app was alredy fixed.

10. Do you have to increase the minimum shutter speed to keep images free of camera shake blur after the upgrade? If so, increased by how much? 

I use 1/250 and up most of the time. Iso performance is very good.

in any caseit is not going to change your life, M10-R was good, M11 is better. there is a hole forum dedicated to it, and the people that talked endlessy about freezing issue didn't even try the camera.

 

 

[setuporg]

I've had M10R since launch, trading in the M10 I had since that one's launch.  Tried M11 on its launch day and decided to wait until the P.  I'm not letting go of the M10R but am finding the M11P very satisfying.  The stapling sounds assures you the photo is filed in the Kafkian castle of memories.  The screen is great but usually off.  I love the fact that it's off most of the time.  I push the Menu or Play button to see it.  Really no need for a D anymore.  The black body is awesome to grip.  Beats black paint for ergonomics really.  Haven't done any meticulous testing or comparisons and probably won't.:). Just enjoying it.

[opera207]

1. Do you find the color and temperature of the  DNG and SOOC Jpeg from 11P warmer and more vibrant than those from M10R? Do you like it? 

Re: M11P's AWB is more accurate than M10R.  SOOC Jpeg without magenta shift like M11, I like it. (Some people said M11's magenta shift issue has been solved by firmware2.01).

2. How significant is the difference between the two models in term of their high ISO performance say 3200 and up. 

Re: Not much, but M11p is better.

3. Do you find the back LCD on the M11P much sharper than the M10R's

Re: Yes. higher resolution.

4. How slow the M11-P starts ( from off to on) and is ready to take shots comparing to M10R 

Re: Tiny slow, 

5. When using RF, Is the metering on M11-P works better ( more accurate) than M10-R's center weight metering. Are there any accuracy difference in term of metering between the two when using LCD to take pictures

6. Do you still need screen protector on 11-P? ( Is the sapphire back screen scratch resist?)

Re: yes, my sapphire screen Apple watch breaked.

7. Are the shutter sound on both models the same or comparable in term of quietness?

Re: not the same, M10r is better IMO.

8. Is there any problem using third party lenses on M11-P ( mainly Voigtlander's 2.8 ultron II and the Voigtlander 21/1.4)

Re: no problem

9. Any freezing issue on the M11-P? I heard that the M11-P  have issue with the FOTO app after the recent FW update and that may lead to freeze?

Re: 10 days of use, no freeze so far.

10. Do you have to increase the minimum shutter speed to keep images free of camera shake blur after the upgrade? If so, increased by how much? 

Re: yes, I keep at least 1/180 while using 35mm.

Thank you!!

[bilbrown]

On 11/14/2023 at 10:54 PM, Nick Lo said:

Did anyone upgrade from M10-R to M11P? What made you move up to 11P? What are your thoughts and experience after the upgrade? 

Here are a few specific things I want to hear some advice/sharing:

1. Do you find the color and temperature of the  DNG and SOOC Jpeg from 11P warmer and more vibrant than those from M10R? Do you like it? 

2. How significant is the difference between the two models in term of their high ISO performance say 3200 and up. 

3. Do you find the back LCD on the M11P much sharper than the M10R's

4. How slow the M11-P starts ( from off to on) and is ready to take shots comparing to M10R 

5. When using RF, Is the metering on M11-P works better ( more accurate) than M10-R's center weight metering. Are there any accuracy difference in term of metering between the two when using LCD to take pictures

6. Do you still need screen protector on 11-P? ( Is the sapphire back screen scratch resist?)

7. Are the shutter sound on both models the same or comparable in term of quietness?

8. Is there any problem using third party lenses on M11-P ( mainly Voigtlander's 2.8 ultron II and the Voigtlander 21/1.4)

9. Any freezing issue on the M11-P? I heard that the M11-P  have issue with the FOTO app after the recent FW update and that may lead to freeze?

10. Do you have to increase the minimum shutter speed to keep images free of camera shake blur after the upgrade? If so, increased by how much? 

Thank you!!

 

I upgraded because in 10 years of owning a digital M I have always skipped the P. I also, like you, held on to my M10-R and if I would have gotten the M10-R Black Paint I doubt I would have upgraded at all. After a few weeks with the M11-P, I still may look for a Black Paint and go back to the M10-R, but I am serious about the CAI tech and figuring out the M11 system so I will stick it out for a bit longer.

1. The colors on the M11-P are for lack of a better term, LIVE. The M10-R is very pleasing but the M11 variants colors are just a little poppier. I think the resolution which is 20MP more than the R is significant. I have not gotten used to the colors yet, and may not. I have found Ted Forbes Kodachrome presets in LR to help with the colors a bit. In Capture One, it's really been frustrating to figure out how I want to make these colors pop.

2. The DR is pretty incredible for a CMOS sensor. At 20,000 iso I have gotten grainy but usable files if using the 60MP and downresing. I found this better than using the 36MP or 18MP sizes. I tend to shoot at full resolution... which can be a problem I will address in a moment.

3. Yes.

4. 3.2 seconds on paper. In action, I have had to get used to it. The M10-R was ready in an instant in comparison. This isn't that far off, and you can set your camera to be on all of the time unless you turn it off (instead of sleep), but if you forget to turn it off, it will drain the battery in about an hour.

5. Highlight Weighted Metering is your friend in Auto ISO or A priority mode, however I have learned not to shoot the M11-P this way and assign the thumb wheel with ISO and turn on LV, half press shutter and gauge my exposure. On the M10-% I used Exposure Compensation, thus far I have used this on the M11-P and it seems to work fine.

6. No, it is scratch proof.

7. M11 is quieter than the M11-P oddly, but both are silent with electronic shutter. But ES is best used in good lighting situations. Any variable light or moving subjects and you have very bad rolling shutter. 

8. Only if the contacts are dirty and you don't designate what the lens is in the lens list, or turn off automatic lens ID all together.

9. Yes. Currently I turn off FOTOS because if I leave it on the camera tries to talk to it if geotagging is on. IF my phone loses signal it freezes the camera.

10. No more than the M10-R really. Although I shoot at 1/250th to 1/1000th of a second for fast paced work, if the subject is still its just like any other M. I have hand held at 1/6th of a second and gotten a perfectly sharp shot. Also, if you use a Leica SF40 or SF60 flash you can get HSS, up to 1/4000th of a second mechanical shutter only however.

 

Now the caveats I have experienced that this forum knows.

 

You need the right card. A 250-300MB read/write speed v90 UHS-II SD card from Sandisk has worked best for me. Otherwise, the files will jam up and you will have bad DNGs. 

This bad DNG can also happen to the internal memory if you don't do a few things, like shut off FOTOS when you are not using it. 

If you shoot DNG+JPG at full 60MP resolution, expect there to be buffering. The buffering is VERY significant with DNG+JPG at 60MP. If you shoot fast and a lot, have a back up if you want to continue shooting, just use a different camera (24MP is the sweet spot here and the SL2-S couples well with the files of the M11 sensor), or choose S or M resolution (18MP works best, if you shoot say JPG only you can shoot forever it seems in JPG only at S/18MP and no issues.) Treat this camera like a better layed out menu system and smaller version of a DMF like the Hassleblad or GFX and you will understand that these high resolution files need a bit more care. For some reason, this was not the case with the M10-R, although I shot the M10 in more of these fast paced settings than the M10R/M10M. Possibly because of all of the years of FW updates, and the the fact it was the last M10 variant, it had all its kinks worked out.

I don't mind the kinks, if they get smoothed over. If not, back to the M10R.

The M11P should be the best of the M11, but in reality it is just a color version of the M11M body, with the CAI tech. Keep that in mind. Leica is still upgrading this firmware and this gives me hope that the camera will be as good as the M10/M10R was to me. I have however kept my M10M as a back up, so I still have a M10 variant for now.

I would say that if you are happy with the M10-R, and don't need the CAI or extra resolution beyond 40MP, then it's not imperative to upgrade right away. That said, the images I have gotten are beyond good, and worth the quirks and figuring out the system's minor glitches. The battery lasts literally for DAYS, even with hardcore shooting. Yes, I have experienced freezes but this was worked out within the first week because I changed the way I set up the camera. This is NOT a camera you can just rely on right out of the box. You MUST do the FW upgrade, and you MUST customize the camera to the way you shoot. Being able to use LV when you want and the flash sync almost like a leaf shutter is INSANE. The Q like features of cropping frame lines is useful if you shoot a 28 or 35, I haven't tried it with a tele like the 75 or 90, but for details that might be rad.

But if none of this matters to you, do you really need the upgrade? I decided I did, and have used the camera as my primary since I got it. You might too. Many of us have. We are working out this beastie and getting the results. It is just a very different DRF + M than previous variants. If you liked the M9 colors and the M240 battery life, and the size of the M10 with a similar layout – then I feel like this will be familiar and may even become YOUR camera. If not, the M10R is perfectly capable and still has a few years left. Maybe the M12?

Edited November 28, 2023 by bilbrown
Clarity.

[Edax]

8. using a Voigtlander APO Lanthar 50mm coded as APO-Summicron-M 50mm without any problems.

9. 3 1/2 weeks in, no freezes yet. But I am avoiding FOTOS like the plague.

Edited November 28, 2023 by Edax

[InboundNeb]

Found this thread whilst researching this topic since I have many of the questions posed by the OP. Currently have a M10-R (Silver) that I purchased pre-owned in mint condition from my Leica store. It came with 3 OEM batteries, which somewhat alleviates the rather short battery life.

From a colour science perspective, improved metering and battery life/charging convenience, would it make sense to upgrade to a M11-P, considering value has retained quite well and could trade it without minimum value loss? Would love to hear you guys' thoughts.

[swatch]

core factor is colour ( I prefer M11 ) and the rest of conveniences or benefits are only nice to have.

[RF’sDelight]

Am 10.3.2025 um 13:36 schrieb swatch:

core factor is colour ( I prefer M11 ) and the rest of conveniences or benefits are only nice to have.

Which kind of color do you refer to, JPG (depending on chosen profile) or RAW (depending on post)? 😎

[RF’sDelight]

Am 3.3.2025 um 06:05 schrieb InboundNeb:

Found this thread whilst researching this topic since I have many of the questions posed by the OP. Currently have a M10-R (Silver) that I purchased pre-owned in mint condition from my Leica store. It came with 3 OEM batteries, which somewhat alleviates the rather short battery life.

From a colour science perspective, improved metering and battery life/charging convenience, would it make sense to upgrade to a M11-P, considering value has retained quite well and could trade it without minimum value loss? Would love to hear you guys' thoughts.

As M10-R and M11-D user I personally still prefer the M10-R because it’s more a less the "classical" M experience, like I love it since the analogue days. 

I fully acknowledge the better battery life and the better connectivity that comes with the M11 but I don't like the overall concept of the M being more and more towards DSLR convenience/functionalities.

Just from an IQ perspective I'd say there is no reason to change from the M10-R to the M11-P. Since the M11 family brought so many changes to the M it’s probably worth the wait to see which changes the M12 will bring.  I hope it will not be an EVF. 🙏😂 

[Photoworks]

5 hours ago, RF’sDelight said:

As M10-R and M11-D user I personally still prefer the M10-R because it’s more a less the "classical" M experience, like I love it since the analogue days. 

what makes it classic for you?

the changing film? the Focusing? the pushing of a button and a picture gets taken?

[swatch]

11 hours ago, RF’sDelight said:

Which kind of color do you refer to, JPG (depending on chosen profile) or RAW (depending on post)? 😎

RAW(LrC), not JPG
warmer and more vibrant, subjective but pleasing to my eyes more than photos I see from M10R; it is personal preference.

[SrMi]

As a reminder, the colors you see with raw files depend significantly on the selected profile.

Adobe also recently introduced an Adaptive Color profile, which uses AI to analyze an image and adjust tone and color.

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Hallo,

Look here: Interesting Leica gear

[RF’sDelight]

vor 14 Stunden schrieb Photoworks:

what makes it classic for you?

the changing film? the Focusing? the pushing of a button and a picture gets taken?

Funny. Technically the metering and emotionally the baseplate. 

[RF’sDelight]

vor 8 Stunden schrieb swatch:

RAW(LrC), not JPG
warmer and more vibrant, subjective but pleasing to my eyes more than photos I see from M10R; it is personal preference.

Thank you. I would make the same statement as @SrMi

Nevertheless I’m interested in looking at my RAW files again from my very first comparison of M10-R and M11-D last September (Link, but no pictures posted).