Traveling and your M10p is discombobulated!

[KFo]

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We are out traveling around Portugal then off to Morocco.  2 days in to the trip (about 10 days total) the rangefinder on my M10P has become discombobulated.  It doesn't move at less than about 5m with my Canon 28 f/2.8 LTM.  So I can't rangefinder focus close.  Everything else works fine and it is definitely the camera body not the lens.

So I've moved on, a long practitioner of zone focusing as well as range estimating.  I often use the Leica like a really expensive point and shoot.  Using LV on the LCD is just too slow and I've never used it for that reason.  I guess it's a backup in an impractical sort of way for the way I shot.

I could buy another digital M if I ran across one in Lisbon (not heading to Porto).  Aside from the fact that I don't want another digital M, but really is this necessary?  I like the challenge of working around this little problem.  I am more Daido Moriama than Ansel Adams anyway.

What would you do or what have you done?  Would lack of close (<5m) focus with a 28 put you out of business?

[jankap]

In the camera mouth there is a small roller. Does that move backwards and gets forwards then?

Did the lens/camera combination work at less than 5 meters, before you travelled? Or is this the very first using?

Was the lens in service (CLA), before you travelled?

Edited November 11, 2023 by jankap

[KFo]

The follower moves fine.  I can look inside the rangefinder window and see that the mechanism does move at all until the last 1 or 2mm of cam follower travel.  It almost seems as though the can follower arm has slipped on the pivot. 

No CLA on the lens.

[jankap]

Sorry for the repeated question about the CLA. You bought the lens long before your trip, and formerly it was OK at close distances?

Is the LTM adapter perhaps moving, if you adjust the distance?

Do you have other rangefinder lenses with you?

Edited November 11, 2023 by jankap

[KFo]

I've had this setup for a long time, exactly this setup. It's the same with other lenses, M mount included.  

 The problem is very apparent by removing the lens and moving the cam follower with a finger while watching through the viewfinder.  You can see the parallax adjust as you move the follower, but the ranging image movement only occurs in the very last part of the follower travel.  So it focuses, depending on the lens, from 5m to infinity; accurately which is surprising.

Moving the follower with a finger, you also feel when it engages and starts adjusting the RF.  Strange.  I can't find a decent drawing online to see what may have become discombobulated to cause this.

[jankap]

It could be, that in the rangefinder mechanism inside the camera somewhere the grease has been dried. There are prisms or/and mirrors, that should be able to turn free. At the infinity setting, the counter force from the camera cam is strongest. You could very carefully test, if the close focus part of the way really comes freely out.

Did you try other lenses, if they show the same problem? Especially if it is an LTM lens.

[jankap]

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vor 9 Stunden schrieb KFo:

Would lack of close (<5m) focus with a 28 put you out of business?

For me, this would not a problem. I would estimate the distance and would not use the lens wide open. A 28mm is not so critical. But it is annoying and another something to remember.

Edited November 11, 2023 by jankap

[KFo]

13 hours ago, jankap said:

It could be, that in the rangefinder mechanism inside the camera somewhere the grease has been dried. There are prisms or/and mirrors, that should be able to turn free. At the infinity setting, the counter force from the camera cam is strongest. You could very carefully test, if the close focus part of the way really comes freely out.

Did you try other lenses, if they show the same problem? Especially if it is an LTM lens.

If could upload videos it would be easy to demonstrate the issue🙃.

The sticky grease might be a possibility...

I do have one other lens with me a 13.5 f/4 hector (we came here to shoot the giant waves at Nazaré) which is M mount.  Same thing happens with it.

The camera has about 4 years of hard use but not abuse.  I am a little surprised by this as it had no symptoms prior to this malfunction.

I wish I had some tools with me, and some time, I would pop the top plate off and have a look for anything obvious.  Strangely, I am looking forward to returning home so I can deal with this.

[RexGig0]

With a 28mm lens, I would not need to use the rangefinder. My first Leica 28mm lens was an Elmarit-R 28mm Version 1, adapted to my M 246 Monochrom with a Novoflex LEM/LER adapter, so, not rangefinder-coupled. Later, using an Elmarit-M 28mm Version III, I have often opted to photograph my active grandsons by holding the camera at my waist level, or even thigh level, while looking downward at the distance and DOF scales to focus. This encourages my older grandson, in particular, to act normally, rather than look upward, at my face.

If I am recalling correctly, setting the distance at 12 feet, and the aperture at about f/8, will get everything from about six feet to infinity in acceptable focus. Then, if a subject gets within six feet, quickly moving to MFD usually suffices. To capture distant subjects, opting to move the distance to infinity will work best. This means that one only needs to remember the direction to reach MFD, the direction to reach infinity, and the position of the tab for ~12 feet. From there, one can progress to learn to judge distances more precisely.

When actively distance-focusing, by estimating the distance and setting the focusing ring, as necessary, for each shot, the odds of success can be improving by taking about three or four shots, while slightly tweaking the focusing ring. This would burn much more film, but is helpful when shooting digital. Optionally, the shooter can move back and forth, and bit, while shooting several images, rather than moving the focusing ring.

I am not claiming to be any kind of expert. I have been distance-focusing since at least 2011, with Nikon lenses adapted to Canon DSLR bodies, well before I added the Leica M system, in 2018.

 

Edited November 12, 2023 by RexGig0

[GFW2-SCUSA]

Where is the Leica factory in Portugal? Would you be ay le to take it there?  I suspect they would be happy to help you fix the problem. I suspect you have already thought of this, but I offer it anyway!  

 

[Adam Bonn]

On 11/13/2023 at 2:16 AM, GFW2-SCUSA said:

Where is the Leica factory in Portugal? Would you be ay le to take it there?  I suspect they would be happy to help you fix the problem. I suspect you have already thought of this, but I offer it anyway!  

 

Way up in the north of Portugal, near Porto (the OP is down south)

AFAIK you can't just show up at the factory and get support. Also I suspect even if the OP could make it to the Porto store, although I know for a fact the staff there would do their absolute best it would probably be recommended to send it back to Wetzlar

[Adam Bonn]

On 11/12/2023 at 10:19 AM, KFo said:

I wish I had some tools with me, and some time, I would pop the top plate off and have a look for anything obvious.  Strangely, I am looking forward to returning home so I can deal with this.

I once bought a 2mm allen key to calibrate an M whilst on a trip... could you not buy the (iirc torx???) driver you need and have a look at it?

I've had a sticky range finder cam before, popped the top off and got it sorted, but I think your issue is a bit different to that

[KFo]

56 minutes ago, Adam Bonn said:

I once bought a 2mm allen key to calibrate an M whilst on a trip... could you not buy the (iirc torx???) driver you need and have a look at it?

I've had a sticky range finder cam before, popped the top off and got it sorted, but I think your issue is a bit different to that

It's a good practical solution.  I could have, but I didn't want to monkey around out on the road.  I was doing fine with zone/estimate focus with the 28 anyway.  I dropped the body off at the local service man today.  Said I might have it back by the weekend.

[KFo]

As followup to this post; I dropped my camera off at a local shop Monday.  They had it ready Wednesday, and picked it up Thursday.  

170€ and well worth it.  

Serviced by Casanova Foto in Barcelona in their local shop.  Very happy!

[theseahawk]

did they explain what caused the problem?

[KFo]

The actual service guy wasn't in when I picked it up.  I plan to stop by and ask about it sometime when I'm in the neighborhood.