Teddy Tudoroiu Posted November 19, 2007 Share #1 Posted November 19, 2007 Advertisement (gone after registration) Hello, I am new on this forum. I joined it because a couple a weeks ago a friend bought a new Leica M8 with a 28 mm lens and let me play with it. I am a photojournalist by nature and have only worked with Canon equipment but at this point a Leica for some personal projects i am working on appears to be an excellent choice. My question is what to buy, as a starter kit, since i saw a lot of models, lenses, and various other equipment. I am tempted to get the M7 since i know it has quite a good aperture priority program which should be excellent for fast shooting or just free time through London when i don't have the time to set up the parameters the way i would like the shot to be. Then again, the M6 seems to be a good idea also. Are there any other models i should take into account? What sum am i looking at ( since i saw the same camera in three different places with big price differences)? Thank you for the help, Teddy Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Advertisement Posted November 19, 2007 Posted November 19, 2007 Hi Teddy Tudoroiu, Take a look here Help on decision. I'm sure you'll find what you were looking for!
Michael-IIIf Posted November 19, 2007 Share #2 Posted November 19, 2007 Welcome Teddy. This could turn into a looooooooong thread as there are more answers than there are photographers. Why don't you join us on the 8th? And if Steve makes it he might even bright along his M8 for us all to fondle. Michael Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Teddy Tudoroiu Posted November 19, 2007 Author Share #3 Posted November 19, 2007 That would be excellent. I have a free weekend and will undoubtedly join you guys. As for the first matter, i was afraid that it might turn into a huge conversation but it is the opinions i am interested in. I started reading the forum to find out about the cameras and got to the conclusion that it's way to much documentation to be reading. A hand-on approach should be better... i think Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
earleygallery Posted November 19, 2007 Share #4 Posted November 19, 2007 Welcome to the forum Teddy. Michael's idea is a good one - were meeting up at the Champagne bar for a glass (did he mention it is customary for new members to get the first round in ) Seriously, deciding factors are IMO film or digital (I'm assuming you've already decided on film?). Then its a case of whether you need/want AE exposure - if so it has to be the M7. If you don't need AE but want a built in meter it has to be an MP/M6/M5. Then you need to consider your preferred lenses = viewfinder magnification/framelines choice. The current manual model is the MP - built in light meter but otherwise fully mechanical (the M7 has an electronic shutter so is battery reliant apart from one or two emergency speeds). The previous model, M6/M6TTL is pretty much the same as the MP (TTL refers to dedicated flash). The M5 is the black sheep - first M with a built in meter. Then you have the older non metered fully mechanical models M3, M2, M4, 4-2, 4-P. As you have noticed prices vary considerably, much depends on condition of course but there are special editions, viewfinder options, certain serial numbers etc etc that all affect the price. How much do you want to spend on a body? Whichever you choose you'll probably want another anyway! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
DTD Posted November 19, 2007 Share #5 Posted November 19, 2007 If you eventually wanted to go digital – you might also consider from the start what lens to get with it. A 35mm would be a classic start for a film M and still be a useful 50mm on a digital M8. I would always say one lens and a body is enough for starters. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
rsh Posted November 19, 2007 Share #6 Posted November 19, 2007 The M5 may be the black sheep, but it has the most accurate meter of all the Ms. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jaapv Posted November 19, 2007 Share #7 Posted November 19, 2007 Advertisement (gone after registration) Welcome to the forum .I'm sure you know exactly which focal length is your favorite. If I were you I would get a user M3 and a fitting lens plus an exposure meter ( the CV one springs to mind) to see if you like the RF experience. If you do, the loss on trading in the tryout kit should be small, if any. At that stage you can decide whether to get an M7 or M6 or even M8. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael-IIIf Posted November 19, 2007 Share #8 Posted November 19, 2007 i was afraid that it might turn into a huge conversation but it is the opinions i am interested in. There are no right or wrong choices, just more cameras that you will want to own. At least that's my experience. For my part I grew up using a IIIf and always wanted a modern SLR. I was finally able to buy an OM-1 at uni in 1979 and it was everything I wanted until I bought some point-and-shoots for work. Then I caught the digital bug in the late '90s but got so frustrated with the shutter lag (and other problems) that I decided it was time to buy the M3 I've always promised myself and the day I went to buy it the transaction went like this: Hello, I would like to buy an M3 please. Sure, here's our selection, but for a "few dollars more" you can get an M4. Mmmn, that'd be nice. And for a little more again you can have an M6 with a built in meter. Okay, done, I'll take the M6. Then re-acquaintance with Leica ownership brought me to buy a D2. Which I love but it also suffers from shutter lag. So I've come the full circle and enjoy using the IIIf most of all Having said all that. There will be an M8 in my life some day. I'm keeping my eye on the used prices! I look forward to seeing you on the 8th. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Teddy Tudoroiu Posted November 19, 2007 Author Share #9 Posted November 19, 2007 Ok. thank you very much for the posts. i am quite stuffed with information at this point:D I already have an old Zorki 4 camera, it's back in Romania but it seemed like fun to play with. Range finder Experience? that sounded quite inviting ) I like the fact that your image does not disappear when you take the shot, you know exactly what you shot unlike SLR's. It's something that seems different but i am not sure yet. @earleygallery: thank you for information (one comment: i'd rather take a couple of months to chose a camera than to take one and then want another one. been there, done that a couple of times and it's bugging. further more, if i buy a leica, i won't sell it in a year. it's a camera to have in your house) @rsh: didn't know that aspect, thank you, quite useful @jaapv: also a good advice. might follow. still rather reluctant to buying a SH camera without testing. might end up broken sooner than it should... So, as far as i got, i would be choosing between M7 (if i find a cheap and good one, for the AE which i want to have but not vital), M5 ( metering, rather important, not vital), M3 ( cheap and as far as i read and know most reliable and simple). As for lenses i guess a 28 will do. 50 is always a standard option but not entirely sure i need it yet:) @michael: your story resembles my Mark II experience. that's why i want to come back to the basics. seems fairer. Looking forward to seeing you too. Thank you all. T.T. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
stunsworth Posted November 19, 2007 Share #10 Posted November 19, 2007 If I was buying another film M I'd go for an M6. Cheaper than an M7, but without AE. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
budrichard Posted November 20, 2007 Share #11 Posted November 20, 2007 In order to make a truly informed decision, you need to actually use the models you are contemplating. This gathering in London seems to be just the thing for you. Bring film to assess the results. I have been using M3's since the 1960's. Eventually I purchased an 0.85 M6 classic since the shutter rotated the same as my M3. I was looking for an 0.85 MP, best of the M3 and M6 models but came upon an 0.85 M7 that i purchased. Once I used the M7, I never wanted to consider the MP or any other Leica. I'm presently looking for an 0.85 M7 to replace the M6. So try before you purchase! Good luck.-Dick Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Teddy Tudoroiu Posted November 22, 2007 Author Share #12 Posted November 22, 2007 Thank you very much for all your replies. i look forward to the 8th and meeting all of you. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
earleygallery Posted November 22, 2007 Share #13 Posted November 22, 2007 Teddy, You mention that you will probably go with a 28mm lens. In that case you would be better to consider those M models which offer 28mm framelines in the viewfinder, otherwise you will have to use a separate shoe mounted finder (and the camera's finder to focus). The M3 finder only has frames for 50/90/135mm. From what you have said it sounds like you need an M7 or maybe an M6/MP with the standard .72 finder. When I said you'll want another camera I meant in addition to whatever you buy to start with! Leica's are very addictive. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
gyoung Posted November 22, 2007 Share #14 Posted November 22, 2007 Teddy, You mention that you will probably go with a 28mm lens. In that case you would be better to consider those M models which offer 28mm framelines in the viewfinder, otherwise you will have to use a separate shoe mounted finder (and the camera's finder to focus). The M3 finder only has frames for 50/90/135mm. From what you have said it sounds like you need an M7 or maybe an M6/MP with the standard .72 finder. When I said you'll want another camera I meant in addition to whatever you buy to start with! Leica's are very addictive. and if you wear glasses it would have to be a 0.58 mag. viewfinder if you want to see the 28mm frame (IMHO) Gerry Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Teddy Tudoroiu Posted November 22, 2007 Author Share #15 Posted November 22, 2007 so i found out. well... i switched to lenses for a week now because the diopter adjust on my mark II was kind enough to get stuck. therefor i had to get lenses to help. so i suppose .72 would be ok for me. my choices are getting narrow... M6TTL or M7... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
rick_dykstra Posted November 23, 2007 Share #16 Posted November 23, 2007 Hi Teddy. Welcome. It looks l like you are thinking of M6TTL or M7, both good choices and IMHO better than a retro collectors item, especially for your first Leica. If it was between these two I'd suggest the M7 will be more flexible - faster flash sync ('cause you will want to use flash sometimes), aperture priority ('cause you might not be a manual exposure fan) and better viewfinder display. Better viewfinder in an optical sense too, if you get one of the later serial numbers, after the viewfinder upgrade. But, if you are wanting to live the Leica life and get out there and take photos rather than letting the camera take them for you (partly) then an M6 Normal could be a great choice. You will choose the shutter and aperture every time and this will make you think about each and every shot - well in advance - and I predict you will enjoy it. :-) I think you will get better photos too. It will be such a change from taking pictures with a handheld computer that can be fitted with a lens. ;-) Enjoy, and welcome. Please keep us informed of how you go and your impressions. Regards, Rick. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Teddy Tudoroiu Posted November 23, 2007 Author Share #17 Posted November 23, 2007 Hey, i guess the Leica lifestyle is not exactly me, at least not yet. i guess i am still accustomed to everything happening fast, therefor my choice of having aperture priority if possible. then again i heard some bad things about the M7, like the fact that the first series might have viewfinder problems, that film got scratched for no good reason inside the camera and that the shutter had some problems. What do you know about such things? Has any of you who has a Leica confronted that problem? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stuart Richardson Posted November 23, 2007 Share #18 Posted November 23, 2007 Hey, i guess the Leica lifestyle is not exactly me, at least not yet. i guess i am still accustomed to everything happening fast, therefor my choice of having aperture priority if possible. then again i heard some bad things about the M7, like the fact that the first series might have viewfinder problems, that film got scratched for no good reason inside the camera and that the shutter had some problems. What do you know about such things? Has any of you who has a Leica confronted that problem? I have never heard any of those things. The very earliest cameras had the same viewfinder as in the M6TTL, and it is not that it is bad, just not as good as the upgraded viewfinder that came when the MP came out. I would say that the large majority of M7's either came with the upgrade or were converted to it. It should not be difficult to tell, as the viewfinder is multicoated and the old was not. Anyway, it is hard to go wrong with the M7, especially if you are used to using AE. You can always turn it off and it is pretty much exactly like an older M. AE is also useful if you plan to shoot slide film, as the exposure is stepless and therefore more accurate in its exposures. This would not really show up on negative film, but on slide film, a difference of a 1/3 of a stop or less can be visible at times. Also, the electronically timed shutter has more accurate speeds in general. 1/125 is actually 1/125th, not 1/100th or 1/150th as it might be on an older M. Again, this is not critical if you are shooting negative film, but it can make a difference for slide. My personal opinion is that the M7 is the best M camera to actually shoot with, but that is not to say that the older ones are not fantastic as well. I also use an MP which was my first M and it is great. I usually just load the MP with black and white and the M7 with color... So, overall, if you are going to shoot a lot of slide film, go with the M7. If you only shoot black and white negative film, an older M will do just as well in most situations. Having a meter is nice though, and the M6, MP and M7 are probably your best bet for a daily user. The M5 is a great camera, but it is significantly larger and getting on in years now...it also uses mercury batteries which are illegal in most places, so you may need to get it converted to work with new batteries. Not worth the effort if all you want to do is shoot with it...just get an M6... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
xjr Posted November 23, 2007 Share #19 Posted November 23, 2007 M7 with serial number 2885xxxx or higher. Buy it from recognised dealer preferably ex-demo model which will give you the £eica guarantee. Such a model will set you back about around £1500. Add a 50mmf2.8 collapsible and start a new photographic life. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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