grahamc Posted November 9, 2023 Share #21 Posted November 9, 2023 Advertisement (gone after registration) 4 hours ago, Stevejack said: Just curious were you comparing Jpegs straight out of camera or the Raw files converted in something like Lightroom / capture one? Hi yes it was RAW files into Lightroom I think (but I'll check). General observations were more punch & richness with the 10 files, perhaps expected due to the smaller sensor versus a flatter file from the 11. FWIW the attached screenshot illustrates this difference quite well I think, with m10 on the right. Colours on other shots were very different (although I accept this can be due to the RAW converter), and as a personal taste I far preferred the 10 colours. 10 being warmer, and M11 violet (especially blue skies etc). I couldn't match them quickly with WB Lightroom sliders and neither did I really want to after seeing the other general differences in the images Welcome, dear visitor! As registered member you'd see an image here… Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! 1 1 Link to post Share on other sites Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! ' data-webShareUrl='https://www.l-camera-forum.com/topic/384116-to-m11-p-or-not-to-m11-p%E2%80%A6that-is-the-question/?do=findComment&comment=4898078'>More sharing options...
Advertisement Posted November 9, 2023 Posted November 9, 2023 Hi grahamc, Take a look here To M11-P, or not to M11-P…That is the Question. I'm sure you'll find what you were looking for!
jgeenen Posted November 9, 2023 Share #22 Posted November 9, 2023 My Leica M lenses are the keepers, not the camera bodies. Once you made the step into the Leica ecosystem, the resale value of the old body helps to keep the upgrade investment moderate. Both the M10 and M11 have their pros & cons, from my point of view the M11 is a bit more refined in handling (bottom plate, menu enhancements, hybrid shutter) and on image files (resolution, dynamic range), while the M10 has more balanced color response out of cam. Being retired and not under time constraints, I have no issues to spend more time with Lightroom, so the M11 was my choice. Despite the messages in this forum, a M11 can be equally reliable as the M10. With my M10 I had a failing circuit board in the M10’s third year of operation (was replaced by Leica at no cost), my M11 (that replaced the M10 this march) had no issues since day one. We’ll see what happens in two years from now or whenever my Leica needs service. I hope, Leica will have solved their service challenges by then… To conclude: take the body that suits both your needs and wallet. Don’t take longevity too serious, you’ll never know if your copy will last forever. 3 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
algrove Posted November 9, 2023 Share #23 Posted November 9, 2023 13 hours ago, grahamc said: I was quite surprised looking at side by sides (shot with the same lens that I have 2 copies of). The rendering was significantly different. Of course some may prefer the 11 for their purposes but for myself it was a real eye opener that the most important thing is the end result and it’s really important to try these cameras (not always possible) before succumbing to GAS ! Assume you mean RAW OOC images in your "side by side" comment. For me that is just a starting point. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
algrove Posted November 9, 2023 Share #24 Posted November 9, 2023 I find it just as easy to get the look I want with an M11 as I used to get with my M10R. Welcome, dear visitor! As registered member you'd see an image here… Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! 6 2 Link to post Share on other sites Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! ' data-webShareUrl='https://www.l-camera-forum.com/topic/384116-to-m11-p-or-not-to-m11-p%E2%80%A6that-is-the-question/?do=findComment&comment=4898631'>More sharing options...
Kiwimac Posted November 9, 2023 Share #25 Posted November 9, 2023 (edited) I’ve got a standard 11. The cost of trading it here in NZ makes it completely uneconomical to upgrade. I’d have to pay NZ$7000 or so just to get a few features I can easily live without. I don’t need content authentication and I’m not paying that much just for the aesthetics (nice though they are), sapphire crystal and a bigger internal memory. The M11 is a stellar camera (assuming none of the well documented issues affect you) with many useful enhancements over the 10 series. However the 10R is a perfectly valid choice. I’m travelling at the moment and have found the bigger battery, electronic shutter, much improved WiFi and app usage and the USB in camera charging to be excellent things. Edited November 9, 2023 by Kiwimac 4 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
algrove Posted November 9, 2023 Share #26 Posted November 9, 2023 19 minutes ago, Kiwimac said: I’ve got a standard 11. The cost of trading it here in NZ makes it completely uneconomical to upgrade. I’d have to pay NZ$7000 or so just to get a few features I can easily live without. I don’t need content authentication and I’m not paying that much just for the aesthetics (nice though they are), sapphire crystal and a bigger internal memory. The M11 is a stellar camera (assuming none of the well documented issues affect you) with many useful enhancements over the 10 series. However the 10R is a perfectly valid choice. I’m travelling at the moment and have found the bigger battery, electronic shutter, much improved WiFi and app usage and the USB in camera charging to be excellent things. Could not agree more. 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
otto.f Posted November 9, 2023 Share #27 Posted November 9, 2023 (edited) Advertisement (gone after registration) 3 hours ago, algrove said: just as easy to get the look I want Very informative; this shows a preference for saturated images with a dominance of the yellows. That’s exactly what the M10-R distinguishes from the M10 and the M11. Edited November 9, 2023 by otto.f 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jdlaing Posted November 9, 2023 Share #28 Posted November 9, 2023 On 11/8/2023 at 12:45 AM, maidenfan84 said: I’ve basically came to the point that I plan to keep an M camera for many years and new is going to be my best option. With that said, is an M11-P a solid purchase, or does it seem like there’s still way too many hiccups with it? I did come across a nice looking used M10 standard but then again, it’s already some years old and my aim is to at least get 8-10 solid years of shooting out of the camera. Even more if the camera can handle it. What would your suggestion be on how to proceed? Also, if purchased from a Leica store in the US, will they exchange the camera if it’s a dud on arrival or will they force me to ship it to Germany? If you have the choice of the two, an M-11 or M-11P, I would choose the latter. The best way to handle this in the US is pick up the phone and ask a couple Leica stores about their return policy. Then call a couple dealers and ask what their policy is. It takes very little time to get to where you will be comfortable. The little extra things with a P model are worth the little extra. 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
algrove Posted November 9, 2023 Share #29 Posted November 9, 2023 46 minutes ago, otto.f said: Very informative; this shows a preference for saturated images with a dominance of the yellows. That’s exactly what the M10-R distinguishes from the M10 and the M11. You have no idea how I processed this image. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
la1402 Posted November 9, 2023 Share #30 Posted November 9, 2023 (edited) 1 hour ago, otto.f said: Very informative; this shows a preference for saturated images with a dominance of the yellows. That’s exactly what the M10-R distinguishes from the M10 and the M11. No it is not. That is definitely not the original look out of camera, but heavily priocessed, as should be very obvious. Sean Reid has described the subtle differences between the M10R and M11 in his reviews - those will give an unbiased comparison. Edited November 9, 2023 by la1402 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
algrove Posted November 9, 2023 Share #31 Posted November 9, 2023 Yes. Sean describes the subtle differences between the M10R and M11 in minute detaail and also how to adjust each for the other if you so desire. He also mentions the differences that most describe are over exaggerated and in REAL testing in fact the differences are very small and subtle which he details quite specifically. I have been adjusting files for over 60 years and I can make just about any file suit me based on my mood of the day. I do not process images to match what I saw, but what I want to see. 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
grahamc Posted November 9, 2023 Share #32 Posted November 9, 2023 7 hours ago, algrove said: Assume you mean RAW OOC images in your "side by side" comment. For me that is just a starting point. Yes that’s correct. A starting point for me too Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
otto.f Posted November 9, 2023 Share #33 Posted November 9, 2023 1 hour ago, algrove said: Sean describes My eyes are just different from Sean's: M10-R Welcome, dear visitor! As registered member you'd see an image here… Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! M11 2 Link to post Share on other sites Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! M11 ' data-webShareUrl='https://www.l-camera-forum.com/topic/384116-to-m11-p-or-not-to-m11-p%E2%80%A6that-is-the-question/?do=findComment&comment=4899390'>More sharing options...
BillCB Posted November 10, 2023 Share #34 Posted November 10, 2023 (edited) I find comparisons done outdoors rather unreliable - unless thay are literally shot simultaneously. One little wisp of cloud passing can alter colour balance significantly - which is why Sean uses controlled lighting. But I like both shots! Edited November 10, 2023 by BillCB spelling 2 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
grahamc Posted November 10, 2023 Share #35 Posted November 10, 2023 5 minutes ago, BillCB said: I find comparisons done outdoors rather unreliable - unless thay are literally shot simultaneously. One little wisp of cloud passing can alter colour balance significantly - which is why Sean uses controlled lighting. But I like both shots! Yes understand . These cameras were to my eye very quickly especially as both had the same lens already mounted The differences were very consistent across all images shot. Glad you like them, it's heavily a matter of personal taste and what we are looking for in an image that's the most important thing and 1 hour with both cameras was very useful for me Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
algrove Posted November 10, 2023 Share #36 Posted November 10, 2023 13 minutes ago, BillCB said: I find comparisons done outdoors rather unreliable - unless thay are literally shot simultaneously. One little wisp of cloud passing can alter colour balance significantly - which is why Sean uses controlled lighting. But I like both shots! Agree, especially where WB is concerned as these 2 cameras have a completely different metering system and other settings that can easily influence the outcomes.. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
algrove Posted November 10, 2023 Share #37 Posted November 10, 2023 4 hours ago, otto.f said: My eyes are just different from Sean's: M10-R Welcome, dear visitor! As registered member you'd see an image here… Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! M11 And perhaps your settings are different from his also. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jpark114 Posted November 10, 2023 Share #38 Posted November 10, 2023 I had the same sentiment when I was about to purchase my M11. Well my expectation and enthusiasm didn't last that long to say simply. 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
setuporg Posted November 10, 2023 Share #39 Posted November 10, 2023 I've started at a low point and now am very happy with my new M11P. The FOTOS work after the update and everything's peachy. The stealth black body is absolutely gorgeous and fine to hold and the 35 APO and Noctilux 1.2 feel native on it. Fingers crossed! 3 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
otto.f Posted November 10, 2023 Share #40 Posted November 10, 2023 (edited) 4 hours ago, setuporg said: 35 APO feels native on it True! I find the M10-R with the APO 35 a bit heavy, it’s hard to get used to that and the M11 somehow works faster, more intuitive and lies better in my hand. And now: your colors! 😄😉 Edited November 10, 2023 by otto.f 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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