M11-P freezes too

[DadDadDaddyo]

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I have an M11 and it doesn't crash.

But I'll bet there are folks here who could make it crash. 

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[John Smith]

I have a pre-order in for an M11-P. Where do we stand on the freezing issue? Is it due to SD cards or what?

[hmzimelka]

6 hours ago, SuperPuppet said:

Seriously?  It's a very minor issue which certainly will go away. The M11P is the ultimate camera.  Temporary issues are a micro blip.  My advice?  Hit buy without further delay.

The M11 has been around for almost two years now... at what point does defending Leica stop being acceptable? As a new camera owner, the issue might seem minor for now, but after two years of Leica not fixing seemingly simple and basic issues, it starts becoming a whole different problem for many owners. 

Not many people have the means to buy an M11 series camera and shrug off these types off issues for the duration of the ownership. Would I buy another M11, M11M or M11P? Absolutely not! And thats coming from a user with a M11 that doesn't freeze! I've seen and heard of too many buggy cameras to not warrant the risk. 

[hmzimelka]

3 hours ago, SuperPuppet said:

Fair enough. We all respond to these issues in our own way.   I'm pretty chill about this particular malfunction.  Up until 1999 I worked for Canon in their photographic service department.  I saw all sorts of unnecessary drama coming from the other side of the counter over insignificant glitches. I guess I developed an attitude honed from the position of an insider.

And by comparison... this is no big deal. In saying that, I owned a Canon 1DS as one of my two main cameras back when I had my studio.  The 1DSMK2 came out which I acquired immediately, and it had a SERIOUS focus issue that NEVER went away, and despite having contacts in Canon... I was screwed.The fault was completely denied. Now that... I did not cope with at all. That was different though. Unlike the rarely occurring intermittent Leica fault this was permanent feature!!!!!!! Yes, by comparison, the Leica freeze issue is a blip. 

Next time someone does a shoot for a paying client and looses their images or misses an important shot due to some erroneous freeze, I'll point them here where they can read that it's no big deal. I'm sure you might be in the 1 percentile of users who are pretty chill with something like this. LOL

Edited January 28, 2024 by hmzimelka

[Derbyshire Man]

3 hours ago, SuperPuppet said:

having

 

3 hours ago, SuperPuppet said:

Fair enough. We all respond to these issues in our own way.   I'm pretty chill about this particular malfunction.  Up until 1999 I worked for Canon in their photographic service department.  I saw all sorts of unnecessary drama coming from the other side of the counter over insignificant glitches. I guess I developed an attitude honed from the position of an insider.

And by comparison... this is no big deal. In saying that, I owned a Canon 1DS as one of my two main cameras back when I had my studio.  The 1DSMK2 came out which I acquired immediately, and it had a SERIOUS focus issue that NEVER went away, and despite having contacts in Canon... I was screwed.The fault was completely denied. Now that... I did not cope with at all. That was different though. Unlike the rarely occurring intermittent Leica fault this was permanent feature!!!!!!! Yes, by comparison, the Leica freeze issue is a blip. 

My 1ds mk2 got a dead shutter after a puny number of exposures, way below the 200k or whatever was promised, maybe 20k? They resolutely refused to fix it for free even though just outside warranty. Having said that both canon (via CPS) and Fuji always managed to get any defects sorted within a couple of days…

at the moment as long as I have images -> internal and don’t mash the shutter at startup my M11P is fine. 

Edited January 28, 2024 by Derbyshire Man
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[costa43]

M11/m/p freezing, customer care repairs taking months, steel rim qc issues. Their profits have gone up but everything else has gone down. No excuses, they should own it and hold their hands up at the very least.  

[astrostl]

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17 hours ago, SuperPuppet said:

Seriously?  It's a very minor issue which certainly will go away. The M11P is the ultimate camera.  Temporary issues are a micro blip.  My advice?  Hit buy without further delay.

Yes, seriously. It's been a "very minor issue which will certainly go away" for over two years, for a problem that is easily and widely reproducible, on a camera that costs $9000. I think a great way to get them to NOT address it or other glaring QC issues is to give them a pass and keep buying.

Edited January 28, 2024 by astrostl
time

[douglas fry]

OK my M11-P's no longer freeze, switch off all unnecessary features (FOTOS) and only write DNGs to both SD and internal (Angelbird SD cards btw) - I have kept CAI on also as I think going forward it will be an important issue, and it doesnt seem to affect the camera operationally in any way.

 

[Alberti]

On 11/4/2023 at 1:09 AM, setuporg said:

. . . stapling continues!

 

Do you mean the M11-P unfortunately still sounds like a Leitz 24/6 stapler machine? 😴

Edited January 29, 2024 by Alberti

[Derbyshire Man]

2 hours ago, Alberti said:

Do you mean the M11-P unfortunately still sounds like a Leitz 24/6 stapler machine? 😴

I've had loads of cameras over the years. The sound of the M11's shutter is certainly not an issue for me. I suspect Leicas are prone to quite a lot of fetishisation compared with other more mundane photographic tools, my M11P is undeniably beautiful but the sound of the shutter is right at the bottom of any kind of issue list for me.

[Herr Barnack]

On 1/23/2024 at 5:17 PM, DadDadDaddyo said:

I have an M11 and it doesn't crash.

But I'll bet there are folks here who could make it crash. 

The solution is simple:  If you don't use it - it won't crash. 

Some people just demand the world be handed to them on a silver platter.  Why people who have spent $9000 - 9200 USDs on an M11 or M11-P cannot be content with just looking through the viewfinder and focusing the lens with the power switch in the off position is beyond me.   🙄

Edited January 30, 2024 by Herr Barnack

[charlie9089]

I bought an M11 the day it came out, swapped it for an M10-R after a month, amazed these issues still continue but this vindicates my decision. It's a shame because in many ways the M11 is a nice camera.

[thighslapper]

I'm afraid all these issues ....... and if you look through the forum you will see they go back to M8 days .... are just a reflection of the fact that Leica is a camera company and not a computer company. In the past I believe it has outsourced a lot of the firmware writing and it's own in-house Software Department (as Kirk mentions) is tiny in comparison to the likes of Panasonic, Sony, Nikon et al. Having been a Beta Tester for a good number of Leica Digitals the number of folk involved and the time period just don't allow for every combination of settings and variables, so things inevitably slip through.  

Yes, dropping 9k on a camera that isn't 100% reliable 100% of the time is no laughing matter ..... but if you are going to buy into Leica you just have to accept you will not get the same level of rigorous testing that Fuji might use ..... and that issues are just not going to be fixed quickly. You do get a camera that is lovely to use and hold though .... when it's working, that is.....

[BillCB]

I wonder how many people don't have freezing issues and, of course, don't report that. Well, I'm one. I have an M11 and an M11-P and have had only a single issue despite several thousand shots on each camera. I do wait a second or two after turning on the camera before taking a shot - something I learned from my electric car - give the circuitry a moment to stabilize before driving off. May have no relevance but works for me.

Edited January 31, 2024 by BillCB
spelling

[elmars]

vor 2 Stunden schrieb BillCB:

Well, I'm one. I have an M11 and an M11-P

Me too. No freezes.

[thighslapper]

5 hours ago, BillCB said:

I wonder how many people don't have freezing issues and, of course, don't report that. Well, I'm one. I have an M11 and an M11-P and have had only a single issue despite several thousand shots on each camera. I do wait a second or two after turning on the camera before taking a shot - something I learned from my electric car - give the circuitry a moment to stabilize before driving off. May have no relevance but works for me.

It's this user variability that most owners find so frustrating. 

The problems are clearly related to specific settings, conditions and the way photographers use their particular camera.

My personal view is that all this results from Leica porting code from one camera model to the next and just tinkering with it to make it usable and incorporate new technology. As a result you get cumulative potential problems with suboptimal coding. Ideally they should do a bottom up re-write, which unfortunately is more expensive and time consuming.

In my time I have reported many glitches to Leica ...... only to get the reply that they couldn't replicate them .... or they didn't regard them as an issue with the camera ..... so as far as they were concerned they didn't exist. 

[Herr Barnack]

On 1/31/2024 at 4:10 AM, thighslapper said:

It's this user variability that most owners find so frustrating. 

The problems are clearly related to specific settings, conditions and the way photographers use their particular camera.

My personal view is that all this results from Leica porting code from one camera model to the next and just tinkering with it to make it usable and incorporate new technology. As a result you get cumulative potential problems with suboptimal coding. Ideally they should do a bottom up re-write, which unfortunately is more expensive and time consuming.

In my time I have reported many glitches to Leica ...... only to get the reply that they couldn't replicate them .... or they didn't regard them as an issue with the camera ..... so as far as they were concerned they didn't exist. 

I think you are on to something. 

Not all M11 users have problems with the camera; some unfortunate few seem to be plagued with problems.  Why?? 

Live view, the Leica Fotos app and SD card selection seem to be common denominators.  Overheating may also be a factor - or overheating may be the result of all the previously mentioned factors, with overheating causing lock ups that require dropping the battery to fix.

Some may disagree, but IMHO a camera costing $9200 USD should not freeze up on the user.  That said, I am getting ready to drop that $9200 pound of flesh for an M11-P, hoping fervently that I don't end up like a newly turned drinking age virgin who marries a 40 year old stripper. 🙄

Edited February 19, 2024 by Herr Barnack

[Stevejack]

14 minutes ago, Herr Barnack said:

I think you are on to something. 

Not all M11 users have problems with the camera; some unfortunate few seem to be plagued with problems.  Why?? 

Live view, the Leica Fotos app and SD card selection seem to be common denominators.  Overheating may also be a factor - or overheating may be the result of all the previously mentioned factors, with overheating causing lock ups that require dropping the battery to fix.

Some may disagree, but IMHO a camera costing $9200 USD should not freeze up on the user.  That said, I am getting ready to drop that $9200 pound of flesh for an M11-P, hoping fervently that I don't end up like a schmuck who marries a stripper. 🙄

I have both the M11 and the M11M, I use them in exactly the same way but only the M11M freezes. Identical SD cards, and I get freezes when I'm not using live view. 

The only difference between them from my side is the firmware. The M11M has the latest firmware, the M11 is still on its original firmware from release.

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[Derbyshire Man]

2 minutes ago, Stevejack said:

I have both the M11 and the M11M, I use them in exactly the same way but only the M11M freezes. Identical SD cards, and I get freezes when I'm not using live view. 

The only difference between them from my side is the firmware. The M11M has the latest firmware, the M11 is still on its original firmware from release.

Interesting, M11-P here, 2.02. Freeze free if I use internal memory. Freezes if I use SD. Can use any other setting I want while recording to internal without it seems risk. I regard the camera as highly predictable/reliable. Coming up to 10,000 freeze frames with only (4) freezes in the 300-400 frames when using SD card before I swapped to internal.

[Stevejack]

14 minutes ago, Derbyshire Man said:

Interesting, M11-P here, 2.02. Freeze free if I use internal memory. Freezes if I use SD. Can use any other setting I want while recording to internal without it seems risk. I regard the camera as highly predictable/reliable. Coming up to 10,000 freeze frames with only (4) freezes in the 300-400 frames when using SD card before I swapped to internal.

I've switched over to internal memory only as well now, and not keeping an SD in the camera at all. I haven't used the camera for more than a few frames since doing that but hopefully I'll know if it's solved the problem for me within the next week or so. Good to know you've had success here 👍

Edit: Last week I was using IN = SD which is mirroring the files from the internal drive to the SD card. When I went to download my files from the SD card, I had a corrupt DNG (I get these very frequently).
The particular image I wanted was the first in the series, and I reviewed it on the back of the camera after taking it so I know it was there.   When I had the corrupt file on the SD card, I went to get that image off the internal drive (which is why I was using IN=SD) but that filewas no longer on the internal drive. What I mean is, all the other images were there but that first shot was no longer on the camera. I couldn't review it on the back of the screen, and the file was missing from the drive. Very strange, and very concerning. 
I don't know if IN=SD means it writes to the SD card first, and then to the internal drive - but that's the only way I can see that this issue would occur. So that's why I've started using the internal drive now. We will see if it also solves the freezing issue. 

Edited February 19, 2024 by Stevejack