Infurating Lens Repair Experiences with Wetzlar

[fotografr]

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There's one other very irksome factor in this. Let's say you bought new 50mm APO Summicron and registered it with Leica so you now have a 3-year warranty. After six months the focus mechanism becomes sticky so you send it in for repair. It comes back to you after 10 months fully repaired. Not only have you been without the lens for 10 months, you have also lost that much time in your warranty period. 

Leica have become profitable due to our purchases of their products, which are usually quite wonderful. I would think the least they could do is invest some of that back into hiring and training enough service technicians to handle the repair volume for those pieces that aren't quite so wonderful. 

Edited November 5, 2023 by fotografr

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[adan]

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And the list above is from 2018 - before Covid made "working from home" an added desirable job benefit.

......................

Anyone ever asked a 9-to-14-year-old "What do you want to be when you grow up?" And gotten the reply, "A mechanical camera technician!!"

(Don Goldberg was born into the business - his father Norman was a gear technician with Leica training and a columnist for Popular Photography, once upon a time: https://www.notes.nicefilmclub.com/posts/interview-with-don-goldberg-a-leica-repair-master?fbclid=IwAR3sNReXpChFu9bYUVFz4L00n-CTl9xxCEBII_28UNmeu_4F63Yet0lopwE  )

Now, actually, as I was nearing graduation (B.A. in Cinema & Photography), and facing a cold cruel world, where I would actually have to work for a living, I did find out that Leica in Rockleigh, NJ. had camera-repair apprenticeships.

I thought that would be cool as heck! Play with cameras and get paid for it, live and work across the Hudson from "The Big Apple," maybe get employee discounts!

And maybe not as competitive as trying to actually get work as a photographer - the "purple paper" scene in Blow-Up had made that a trendy and somewhat crowded career choice at the time.  

But, as with DAG, that was closing in on 50 years ago. And in the end I decided to at least try making it as a photographer first.

Leica has always (in my 22-year experience with the brand) has slowish repair service. Part of that is just Germany - in March/April they are closing out the FY and doing inventory; in August everyone gets the month off (more or less). I learned very early to avoid asking for repairs that would intersect those months - or expect s-l-o-w.

Part of that is still trying to have their feet in two different technologies: clockwork film cameras and lenses, and modular snap-together digitals.

My own personal solution to the slow repair process is to always have two of everything (for a given value of "two" - I have 21/28/35/50/75 lenses, so that if any one of them has to leave home for 6 months, the others can "pinch-hit" (US baseball term) for the missing one. Two 135s, three M10-variant bodies. I learned that from seeing Elliott Erwitt's "professional" 1970s gear suitcase - every Canon FD lens from 17mm to 300mm, and three F-1 bodies.

And - I don't drop or damage things - photography is not for the clumsy.  

But frankly, that has been my solution whatever camera system I was using, since about 1978, and whether their repair times were 6 days (Nikon NPS) or 6 months.

.........................

Poor communication is a separate issue, and I can understand frustration with that.

Being in the USA, I send any equipment needing service, via my local independent camera store/Leica dealership, to Leica USA. As mentioned somewhere above, they are pretty fast at getting the process started, and providing updates. Having the store's name involved in the transaction also probably helps in getting "pro" communication, if not fast turnarounds.

Recent Leica service experiences, done that way.

- Used 135mm APO-Telyt with documented back-focus (May-June 2023): 2 months (re-shimmed for exact focal length 135.7mm, my 135 TE filled in)

- Adding 6-bit codes to older lenses (90 cron v.3/90 TE/28 v3), 2020-2022 - two in the depths of Covid took 5-6 months, the 90 TE in 2022 took 2 months - including a cleaning for haze.

- I have not needed camera service since the end of the M9 corrosion debacle - sent my last M9 in once I already had an M10 as backup. The M10 (classic 2017, -P, -M) have been bulletproof.

All the repairs were flawless.

[Photon42]

21 hours ago, fotografr said:

Just FYI, Don Goldberg can and does make rangefinder adjustments on both digital and analog M bodies. 

He just happens not to work in Switzerland. Too much fuss with potential import declarations etc.

[Photon42]

21 hours ago, fotografr said:

There's one other very irksome factor in this. Let's say you bought new 50mm APO Summicron and registered it with Leica so you now have a 3-year warranty. After six months the focus mechanism becomes sticky so you send it in for repair. It comes back to you after 10 months fully repaired. Not only have you been without the lens for 10 months, you have also lost that much time in your warranty period. 

Leica have become profitable due to our purchases of their products, which are usually quite wonderful. I would think the least they could do is invest some of that back into hiring and training enough service technicians to handle the repair volume for those pieces that aren't quite so wonderful. 

Yes. That's what I explained to my valued Leica dealer when I was about to pick up the camera. If everything works to plan, they now do some express alignment this week and I should have it finally back soon.

[Jeff S]

22 hours ago, Al Brown said:

A lot of our American friends on this forum have to realize that DAG and Sherry and other US repair folks might be a ray of sunshine stateside, but they are absolutely irrelevant for the rest of the world. It is Leica itself that needs to fix this mess.

Well, Leica NJ is far worse than Wetzlar, so we need something to fall back on without relying on long distance shipping. And others across the pond have praised various third party repairers outside the US, e.g., Will van Manen in the Netherlands, among others.

Jeff

[Jeff S]

21 hours ago, fotografr said:

There's one other very irksome factor in this. Let's say you bought new 50mm APO Summicron and registered it with Leica so you now have a 3-year warranty. After six months the focus mechanism becomes sticky so you send it in for repair. It comes back to you after 10 months fully repaired. Not only have you been without the lens for 10 months, you have also lost that much time in your warranty period. 

 

While not a solution, it seems to me that extending the warranty should be the least Leica should do.

Jeff

[adan]

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33 minutes ago, Jeff S said:

While not a solution, it seems to me that extending the warranty should be the least Leica should do.

Jeff

I believe Leica will warranty repairs for 1 year. So that can be "an extension" of sorts, if done with gear already out of warranty, or in the final months of a previous warranty (factory original, or previous repair).

It is also why repairs can be more extensive (and expensive) than originally requested - Leica will check the entire item for incipient problems, and fix them (in theory) to make sure nothing else will fail for at least the next year.

The 6-bit-coding services I got (see previous post) were nominally $300 each. But Leica eventually estimated $450-650, to fix other problems they found (misaligned lens markings, haze/dust) so that the lens should not come back for other service within the warranty year. Those of course required taking the lens apart, not just dismounting the lens flange and replacing it with a coded flange.

All of that may vary from country to country, of course.

[Jeff S]

1 minute ago, adan said:

I believe Leica will warranty repairs for 1 year. So that can be "an extension" of sorts, if done with gear already out of warranty, or in the final months of a previous warranty (factory original, or previous repair).

 

Not consistently. And not early in warranty period, it seems, which was my point.

Jeff

[Photon42]

For the record the M10M is now back and fixed. Six months repair time. What shocked me almost more was that when it was back in store beginning of this month, the rangefinder was off - fresh from service. Seems like Leica is working to improve the situation - fingers crossed. Pay extra attention to your Ms, folks ...

[LocalHero1953]

54 minutes ago, Photon42 said:

Seems like Leica is working to improve the situation - fingers crossed.

Leica has said nothing publicly. Did they say something to you?

[jaapv]

On 11/6/2023 at 8:19 PM, Al Brown said:

They CONSTANTLY keep finding OTHER problems, even if they are not really there, and sometimes won't repair the camera and/or lens unless you agree to fix everything they "found". I am speaking from personal experience and we have discussed this here on LUF as well. Not a very cool praxis.

I object to the "even if they are not really there" which implies dishonesty on Leica's part. (*)

The truth is that they may discover other problems which were unnoticed or deemed acceptable by they owner.Leica refuses to part-repair a product. They can only guarantee a repair if the result meets the specification 100%

(*) Please read the forum rules

[Smudgerer]

It is more than obvious that there's a huge problem with Leica's service times, ( QC too for that matter ), it's also a real / unfair problem that when anything is sent into Leica under warranty repair that the overall warranty clock on that item is not "frozen" on their receipt / log-in of the item.............Yes I am all too aware through too many Leica gear repairs of my own that any particular repair is warrantied for one year after the work, but what if subsequently something else goes wrong with the camera / lens, 4 / 5 / 6+ months have been shaved off of the initial warranty period due to the long periods of time that all repairs are now taking, warrantied or not. To address this isn't rocket science, when repair items are received and logged into the repair schedule it would be a simple matter to link that to the item's registration and "freeze" the warranty clock..........But as others have said here it does truly appear that Leica just doesn't care to address this and other service related grievances at all.

There's plenty more well-heeled customers prepared to step into my shoes so why should they care but I for one have stopped buying anymore Leica gear until it can be seen that they are better addressing their customer base's needs. As much as I love Leica M's as a "professional" user I just cannot fully rely on the equipment now for QC and service reasons and it's been that way for at least the past 2/3 years.

[jaapv]

1 hour ago, Al Brown said:

I my defense, I was quoted a faulty 6-bit sensor while sending the camera in for a completely different repair and as I had no problems whatsoever with it I refused. I took the camera to not one but two independent repairmen who fix Leicas for checking the 6-bit sensor and absolutely nothing was found to be wrong - no electrical malfunctions, no cracks, no faulty operation. I am unfortunately no technician to analyse this but am just sharing my real world experience, without implying what you said as a mod in blue color above. If you still presume it is against forum policy please feel free to delete the post in question.

Electronics are not repairable by independent repairmen except one in the UK. You could have asked Leica what was wrong with it. 

[jaapv]

Even so. I once sent my CL in for a malfunctioning EV The estimate was quite high to replace the eye sensor. The repair was under 150 Euro as they found that it had only shifted when they opened up the camera. They only charge what they actually do. Independent repairers are not qualified for the electronic part. 

[Anbaric]

On 11/5/2023 at 9:20 PM, adan said:

My own personal solution to the slow repair process is to always have two of everything

Now I think I begin to understand Leica's cunning plan... 😊

[KFo]

1 hour ago, jaapv said:

Even so. I once sent my CL in for a malfunctioning EV The estimate was quite high to replace the eye sensor. The repair was under 150 Euro as they found that it had only shifted when they opened up the camera. They only charge what they actually do. Independent repairers are not qualified for the electronic part. 

But this seems strange to me.  Generally electronic repairs are simple board swapping until it works  again.    The EVF repair was a simple mechanical alignment?

[jaapv]

Yes but repair shops won’t touch it as they have no parts, no expertise and no tools. 

[charlesphoto99]

On 11/17/2023 at 2:26 AM, jaapv said:

 You could have asked Leica what was wrong with it. 

Which is also an issue. They often seem to be quite secretive or unwilling to say what was wrong or replaced. I have no clue why or what they did to fix the back buttons on my M10-R that wouldn't work over a certain temperature. Perhaps since it was done under warranty, they don't feel the need to. 

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[Photon42]

On 11/17/2023 at 9:19 AM, LocalHero1953 said:

Leica has said nothing publicly. Did they say something to you?

yes

[Franky]

Hello,

I used the service in Wetzlar four times:

1) 2018: 75mm f2 floating element too loose: repair time: 6 weeks

2) 2021a: apo 135 f 3.4 6 bit code: repair time 4 weeks

3) 2021 b: 21mm f 3.4 Focus ring loose: repair time 4 weeks

3) 2023: M11 Mono Bluetooth module defective: repair time 2! weeks

I handed in 1) and 4) in Wetzlar

2) and 3) Shipping

Repair time: Time between sending it off and picking it up again

best regards

Franky