Leica M11 Firmware V 2.0.1

[lct]

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8 hours ago, LikameLeica said:

What profile do you use / recommend vs. the M11 Profile?

If you prefer more neutral colors, Iridient Developer provides a Matrix color profile that i often use. Differences can be subtle but it is easy to reduce red or magenta saturation with Photoshop if needed (M11 + Super-Angulon 21/3.4).

Leica profile:

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Matrix profile:

[hdmesa]

M11 set to Daylight white balanced and loaded into Capture One does not have a magenta tint, at least not since a few firmware updates ago. If shooting outdoors at sunrise or sunset, you don't want auto white balance anyway as it drastically changes the real life color of the light.

As for auto white balance, most cameras are not very good at this but merely acceptable. The notable exception for me would be the Nikon (Df) I just bought, which has exceptional auto white balance even with mixed lighting situations such as LED lamps + natural light coming in the windows. Canon is right up there, too, though they struggle with artificial light a bit. I feel like Fujifilm and Leica lag behind everyone else when it comes to auto white balance accuracy.

[don daniel]

vor 57 Minuten schrieb hdmesa:

M11 set to Daylight white balanced and loaded into Capture One does not have a magenta tint, at least not since a few firmware updates ago. If shooting outdoors at sunrise or sunset, you don't want auto white balance anyway as it drastically changes the real life color of the light.

I cannot confirm that. I have just downloaded a trial version of the current Capture One and compared a DNG that was shot at white balance daylight (sun) with the result  in Lightroom. Both show the same magenta cast. The numbers for temperature and tint do not match. In Tint it is a different scale. But as soon as you click on a white balance preset like daylight in Capture One, the tint slider jumps to the left and corrects out the magenta cast. Personally, when the white balance is corrected, I have no trouble at all with the colours on the M11. I find them very good.

[hdmesa]

57 minutes ago, don daniel said:

I cannot confirm that. I have just downloaded a trial version of the current Capture One and compared a DNG that was shot at white balance daylight (sun) with the result  in Lightroom. Both show the same magenta cast. The numbers for temperature and tint do not match. In Tint it is a different scale. But as soon as you click on a white balance preset like daylight in Capture One, the tint slider jumps to the left and corrects out the magenta cast. Personally, when the white balance is corrected, I have no trouble at all with the colours on the M11. I find them very good.

Daylight in camera seems to work for me – I may be shooting different scene types than what you shoot. But I'm always changing the white balance anyway. It's never the exact right temperature I want to use much less the preferred tint. Even a shot that I feel is technically perfect white balance as taken by the camera isn't what I want to use creatively for the image.

[LBJ2]

4 hours ago, hdmesa said:

M11 set to Daylight white balanced and loaded into Capture One does not have a magenta tint, at least not since a few firmware updates ago. If shooting outdoors at sunrise or sunset, you don't want auto white balance anyway as it drastically changes the real life color of the light.

As for auto white balance, most cameras are not very good at this but merely acceptable. The notable exception for me would be the Nikon (Df) I just bought, which has exceptional auto white balance even with mixed lighting situations such as LED lamps + natural light coming in the windows. Canon is right up there, too, though they struggle with artificial light a bit. I feel like Fujifilm and Leica lag behind everyone else when it comes to auto white balance accuracy.

FWIW: Uploading the same M11 DNG file to each:

1. Capture One 16.3.0.76 Trial :   Kelvin 4691  Tint -0.1

2. Lightroom Classic 13.0.1 :  Temp 5150  Tint +21 ( *same for all profiles both the Adobe M11 profile and Adobe profiles) 

3. DXO PotoLab 7:  Temp 5083 Tint +1 

4. Apple Photos 9.0 macOS Sonoma :  Temp 6749K Tint 111.23

As usual always interesting to see how different apps process the same image regardless of the camera model or brand. 

Edited October 31, 2023 by LBJ2

[hdmesa]

19 minutes ago, LBJ2 said:

FWIW: Uploading the same M11 DNG file to each:

1. Capture One 16.3.0.76 Trial :   Kelvin 4691  Tint -0.1

2. Lightroom Classic 13.0.1 :  Temp 5150  Tint +21 ( *same for all profiles both the Adobe M11 profile and Adobe profiles) 

3. DXO PotoLab 7:  Temp 5083 Tint +1 

4. Apple Photos 9.0 macOS Sonoma :  Temp 6749K Tint 111.23

As usual always interesting to see how different apps process the same image regardless of the camera model or brand. 

Wow, that's a HUGE change in tint from C1 to LRC.

Also correction to my earlier post – I meant to reference my Nikon Zf, not Df 🙃

[bcaslis]

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15 hours ago, LikameLeica said:

What profile do you use / recommend vs. the M11 Profile?

It depends on what I want. For standard, I use Adobe Color. For vivid, I use Adobe Vivid. For standard B&W I use Adobe monochrome. For high contrast, I use Adobe BW03. This varies sometimes but I use these as starting points. I have used Colorchecker Passport to create a standard profile but it is similar to the M11 profile, too tinted towards magenta.

[elmars]

The tint for the fixed white balance (whatever it is) is always set to +21 in Lightroom; in AWB it is always set to quite high values. For most of my images, that's - just - ok as a starting point. Blue sky with a magenta cast I like. But if there is a lot of gray in the image, it becomes clear that Leica has gone to the limit of what is acceptable here. With such motifs, this is very noticeable.

Color is largely a matter of taste. Since the magenta cast bothers many photographers and it is annoying to change every image, Leica should specify more moderate values (+10 for tint) as standard or at least make alternative settings possible. This is also possible with Nikon.

Other Leicas (the Q3, for example) and earlier M have more moderate values for tint. This alone shows that the image processing program is not responsible. As far as I know, a specific value for tint and color temperature is not written into a RAW, but calculated by the RAW converter. Therefore every converter has slightly different values. But the basis for this calculation is what the camera writes into the image.

[don daniel]

vor 10 Stunden schrieb LBJ2:

FWIW: Uploading the same M11 DNG file to each:

1. Capture One 16.3.0.76 Trial :   Kelvin 4691  Tint -0.1

2. Lightroom Classic 13.0.1 :  Temp 5150  Tint +21 ( *same for all profiles both the Adobe M11 profile and Adobe profiles) 

3. DXO PotoLab 7:  Temp 5083 Tint +1 

4. Apple Photos 9.0 macOS Sonoma :  Temp 6749K Tint 111.23

As usual always interesting to see how different apps process the same image regardless of the camera model or brand. 

I can see these different values as well. But the pictures LOOK the same. In C1 colours are more saturated than in LR, so magenta cast can even look stronger than in LR. But I'll keep on trying.

[Tommi]

You should check Iridient Developer too. It is completely free to use with all functionality but it adds a watermark to the exported photo. So you can still fiddle with the settings and try out everything with the trial version. Give it a try.

[hmzimelka]

Can anyone confirm if the following is new to FW 2.0.1 because I only just noticed this feature/behaviour now and not before on earlier FW.

In Live View mode (no magnification), swiping up or down, enters Image Review.

Edited November 1, 2023 by hmzimelka

[algrove]

On 10/27/2023 at 7:56 PM, chioque said:

I have just installed 2.0.1 on my M11. However I can’t seem to have live view on the back LCD. I do not have any coded lens, so I choose the lens manually, mine is 50mm summicron IV.  
 

It seems the shutter curtain is closed. It only opens when I press the shutter button. Is there a new setting I need to enable for non-coded lens?

If you have Lv on in the first press of the menu button, then pressing the FN button by default turns on and off LV. Might be a reason for the black/blank screen

[algrove]

On 10/30/2023 at 2:38 PM, don daniel said:

I use Lightroom, but I always shoot DNG and JPG. And you can clearly see the magenta cast in both the DNGs and the JPGs from the camera. But I'd say: If you can't see it, you won't miss it when it's gone.

I use C1 and perhaps it is magenta shift (which I do not see), but looks just fine to me. I use a 32" Mac large pro screen.

[algrove]

I am now having issues with saving different User profiles after this download of 2.0.1. If I activate a profile and then want to change even one setting it switches over to the default profile even though I activated another profile and in doing this destroys my new settings I want in a specially named profile which I have activated before menu changes. I know the menu mentions this, but what is the workaround? What am I doing wrong here?

[lct]

1 hour ago, algrove said:

I am now having issues with saving different User profiles after this download of 2.0.1. If I activate a profile and then want to change even one setting it switches over to the default profile even though I activated another profile and in doing this destroys my new settings I want in a specially named profile which I have activated before menu changes. I know the menu mentions this, but what is the workaround? What am I doing wrong here?

I have no experience of this but i would activate the new profile, select "User Profile", then "Manage Profiles", "Save as Profile", select the new profile and click on "Yes" when the camera prompts to save it as "Profile 4" or other number.

[algrove]

13 hours ago, lct said:

I have no experience of this but i would activate the new profile, select "User Profile", then "Manage Profiles", "Save as Profile", select the new profile and click on "Yes" when the camera prompts to save it as "Profile 4" or other number.

Thanks, this is exactly what I did, but as soon as I turn it off and then back on my new saved profiles are gone.

Another user has had similar issues and his only resolve was to do a camera reset. Guess that's my next try.

Edited November 2, 2023 by algrove

[lct]

20 minutes ago, algrove said:

Thanks, this is exactly what I did, but as soon as I turn it off and then back on my new saved profiles are gone.

Another user has had similar issues and his only resolve was to do a camera reset. Guess that's my next try.

I would do this too or redo what i did with firmware 1.6.1: Export profiles to the SD card, then import them from the same card before tweaking them in the camera. Purely empirical.

Edited November 2, 2023 by lct

[algrove]

2 hours ago, lct said:

I would do this too or redo what i did with firmware 1.6.1: Export profiles to the SD card, then import them from the same card before tweaking them in the camera. Purely empirical.

Thanks, but that's where my problems began since I had saved profiles to an SD card and imported into new FW, but they did not take for whatever reason.

 

Camera reset next thing.

[Rus]

Anyone noticing any improvement with the new FW in terms of dynamic range or noise performance of 36MP and 18MP DNGs compared to 60MP ones, which supposedly should be the benefits of pixel binning? 

Edited November 3, 2023 by Rus

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[maxpower]

15 minutes ago, Rus said:

Anyone noticing any improvement with the new FW in terms of dynamic range or noise performance of 36MP and 18MP DNGs compared to 60MP ones, which supposedly should be the benefits of pixel binning? 

I haven't done experiments but I doubt it to be honest, the M11-P marketing efforts don't mention it anymore either from what I've seen.