Bad LTM adapter?

[Huss]

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5 hours ago, plaidshirts said:

My problem was solved when I replaced the cheap Chinese brand with a brass Voigtlander. I posted about it a couple years back. 

I own LTM adapters from Voigtlander, Leica as well as cheap Chinese ones.  I’ve had just as many problems with the expensive ones as with the cheap ones so now I only buy Fotodiox adapters, and if there is an issue just exchange it for another.

Digressing, the most useless adapter is the original Leica 28-50 LTM.  It does not bring up 28mm frame lines on any M, because how can it?  There is no M that has the 28mm frame lines paired with the 50 frame lines.

Edited September 30, 2023 by Huss

[jankap]

vor 4 Stunden schrieb 01maciel:

Unfortunately, no. But I send the lens yesterday to my favourite lens-service-station for a clean-up inside the lens. He is quite good and would restore the lens to its proper condition if necessary.

He should be able to test the lens with an LTM Leica (Leica Thread Mount) or with an adapter and an M.

[Huss]

3 hours ago, Al Brown said:

Are you sure it does not bring up 28mm on later Ms and 50mm on M3?

I'm sure.  Tried it on all my Ms.  It's a weird thing because it is an old adapter, made before Leica had any M cameras with 28mm frame lines in the VF.  So what was the purpose of it?  Works great if you are using a 50mm LTM lens.  Just a heads up do not get it if you want to use a 28mm lens and expect it to bring up 28mm frame lines.

[Michael Geschlecht]

Hello Everybody,

The 28 - 50 adapter was made at a time when 28mm was the shortest focal length available.

The meaning of the engraving is: If a person has a screw mount 28mm lens,  35mm lens, or  50mm lens & uses this adapter.

And uses the combination on an M3:

Then only the 50mm frame will be visible.

Because on an M3 the 50mm frame is ALWAYS visible. And, it is correct for a 50mm lens.

This would provide the least cluttered range/viewfinder image in order to focus with on an M3.

A supplementary viewfinder for the appropriate focal length could be used in the accessory shoe.

On other "M" cameras this adapter brings up the 50mm or 50mm & 75mm frames. Dependent on frames available in the range/viewfinder.

Except for an M1 (The 3rd "M" camera chronologically.) which has both 35mm & 50mm frames permanently visible in the viewfinder. Regardless of which lens or adapter is in use.

Best Regards,

Michael

Edited September 30, 2023 by Michael Geschlecht

[UliWer]

vor 21 Stunden schrieb Huss:

the most useless adapter is the original Leica 28-50 LTM.

Ah, there are some others which are equally useless:

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The left one pretends to show 21mm - though everyone knows there have never been frames for 21mm lenses in the M viewfinder. 

The center one obviously can't make up it's mind whether it can be used for 28mm or not.

The right one is totally wrong, as I use it with a screw mount 28mm Hektor or a 28mm Summaron - and it really shows the right frames.

Most useless adapters for equally clueless users.  

 

[spydrxx]

Reading the entries in this post I am grateful for learning when I first began my Leica M shooting in the mid 1960s to always manually switch composition frames, and not rely on adapters unless previously tested.

[Huss]

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The one and only thing that I liked more on my Bessa 3a than my Leicas was you had to select the frame lines manually.  Sounds counter intuitive but it meant I could use any LTM adapter w any lens.  

[Huss]

18 hours ago, Michael Geschlecht said:

Hello Everybody,

The 28 - 50 adapter was made at a time when 28mm was the shortest focal length available.

The meaning of the engraving is: If a person has a screw mount 28mm lens,  35mm lens, or  50mm lens & uses this adapter.

A..

Incorrect as it does not say 28, 35, 50 on the adapter.  Just 28 and 50.

This adapter should only say "50" on it.  

[Huss]

2 hours ago, UliWer said:

Ah, there are some others which are equally useless:

Welcome, dear visitor! As registered member you'd see an image here…

Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members!

The left one pretends to show 21mm - though everyone knows there have never been frames for 21mm lenses in the M viewfinder. 

The center one obviously can't make up it's mind whether it can be used for 28mm or not.

The right one is totally wrong, as I use it with a screw mount 28mm Hektor or a 28mm Summaron - and it really shows the right frames.

Most useless adapters for equally clueless users.  

 

The moral of this digression is be very careful buying old Leica LTM adapters.  They may not work as you think they would.  Add to that they are the most expensive LTM adapters, I would pass on them.

[UliWer]

vor 19 Minuten schrieb Huss:

They may not work as you think they would

If something does not work as you think it would, there is only one possibility: the thing is wrong. 

vor 25 Minuten schrieb Huss:

Incorrect as it does not say 28, 35, 50 on the adapter.  Just 28 and 50.

This adapter should only say "50" on it.  

That's what you think. It must be correct therefore. 

[Michael Geschlecht]

7 hours ago, Huss said:

Incorrect as it does not say 28, 35, 50 on the adapter.  Just 28 and 50.

This adapter should only say "50" on it.  

Hello Huss,

What I wrote is correct. Please re-read my Post #26 above.

The reason the adapter is engraved 28 - 50 is because that means 28mm thru 50mm. Which includes 35mm.

At the time that the adapter was made there was only the M3.

The M2 came later. The M2 is the second "M" camera chronologically. The M3 was the first & the only "M" camera when it was introduced.

And, as I wrote above: The M1 was the third "M" camera chronologically.

With an M3 the 50mm frame is always visible. Even when the 90mm & 135mm frames are brought up.

By only having the 50mm frame in the range/viewfinder window of an M3 when focusing lenses of a wider angle of coverage: The image seen is less cluttered by unrelated frame lines when focusing.

The proper scene can then be composed in a separate viewfinder in the accessory shoe.

 

As per Uliwer's adapters: These are all fine & usable as they are marked for the same reasons. WHEN USED WITH AN M3. Or with an M2 when they are marked for an M2'

 

9 hours ago, UliWer said:

Ah, there are some others which are equally useless:

Welcome, dear visitor! As registered member you'd see an image here…

Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members!

The left one pretends to show 21mm - though everyone knows there have never been frames for 21mm lenses in the M viewfinder. 

The center one obviously can't make up it's mind whether it can be used for 28mm or not.

The right one is totally wrong, as I use it with a screw mount 28mm Hektor or a 28mm Summaron - and it really shows the right frames.

Most useless adapters for equally clueless users.  

 

 

Hopefully this will further clarify things.

Best Regards,

Michael

 

Edited October 2, 2023 by Michael Geschlecht

[Huss]

43 minutes ago, Michael Geschlecht said:

Hello Huss,

What I wrote is correct. Please re-read my Post #26 above.

The reason the adapter is engraved 28 - 50 is because that means 28mm thru 50mm. Which includes 35mm.

At the time that the adapter was made there was only the M3.

The M2 came later. The M2 is the second "M" camera chronologically. The M3 was the first & the only "M" camera when it was introduced.

And, as I wrote above: The M1 was the third "M" camera chronologically.

With an M3 the 50mm frame is always visible. Even when the 90mm & 135mm frames are brought up.

By only having the 50mm frame in the range/viewfinder window of an M3 when focusing lenses of a wider angle of coverage: The image seen is less cluttered by unrelated frame lines when focusing.

The proper scene can then be composed in a separate viewfinder in the accessory shoe.

 

As per Uliwer's adapters: These are all fine & usable as they are marked for the same reasons. WHEN USED WITH AN M3. Or with an M2 when they are marked for an M2'

 

 

Hopefully this will further clarify things.

Best Regards,

Michael

 

No,  that doesn't make sense.  Because why does it only say 50 for the M2?

As it doesn't bring up any frame line apart from the 50, you could just as easily have listed every LTM focal length made for the same consideration.

[Michael Geschlecht]

17 minutes ago, Huss said:

No,  that doesn't make sense.  Because why does it only say 50 for the M2?

As it doesn't bring up any frame line apart from the 50, you could just as easily have listed every LTM focal length made for the same consideration.

Hello Huss,

The reason it has "50" for the M2 is that with an M2 the only frame lines visible in the range/viewfinder window are the frame lines in use: 35mm or 50mm or 90mm. This adapter brings up the 50mm frame lines in an M2.

The reason it has 28 - 50 for an M3 is: The 50mm frame lines are always there. When using an adapter which activates the 50mm frame lines the 90mm frame lines & the 135mm frame lines of an M3 are NOT brought into view.

So, when using 50mm lenses, 35mm lenses & 28mm lenses: ONLY the 50mm frame lines (Which are always present in an M3 range/viewfinder window.) will be visible.

Which makes for a less cluttered range/viewfinder window in an M3 when focusing with wider lenses.

Composing for wider than 50mm lenses can be done with a supplementary viewfinder in the accessory shoe.

Best Regards,

Michael

Edited October 2, 2023 by Michael Geschlecht

[Michael Geschlecht]

25 minutes ago, Huss said:

No,  that doesn't make sense.  Because why does it only say 50 for the M2?

As it doesn't bring up any frame line apart from the 50, you could just as easily have listed every LTM focal length made for the same consideration.

Hello Huss,

I don't understand your last sentence beginning "As it doesn't bring ...................".

Could you Explain again/further?

Best Regards,

Michael

[Erato]

12 hours ago, spydrxx said:

Reading the entries in this post I am grateful for learning when I first began my Leica M shooting in the mid 1960s to always manually switch composition frames, and not rely on adapters unless previously tested.

It seems that the maximum frame line supporting 28mm only while I mounted the Elmarit-M 24mm lens.

[Huss]

15 hours ago, Michael Geschlecht said:

Hello Huss,

..

Composing for wider than 50mm lenses can be done with a supplementary viewfinder in the accessory shoe.

Best Regards,

Michael

We get that, we all know how to use accessory finders.  Which is why saying 28-50 on an adapter makes no sense when the camera 1/ does not have 28mm frame lines, 2/ it does not bring up 28mm frame lines on any M camera etc.  And on the M2 - it just says 50.  Which makes sense.  So why doesn't the adapter just say 50?  Why would it say M2 50, M3, 28-50?  

[UliWer]

Michael has explained it patiently, but of course all these explanations will never be accepted by someone who is so sure that adapters should be engraved the same way as he thinks. The way he thinks must be right, there is no other possibility. 

May be for some dozens of years there have been thoughtless users as well. When they had an M3 and a lens, which was wider than the frames in the viewfinder, which adapter was proposed for their purpose? Leitz proposed an adapter which showed the widest frame in the viewfinder. For an M3 the frame for 50mm was the widest. So they offered an adapter which was engraved "28 - 50" - even though a modern thinker would say that this engraving means "28" and "50" - no other reading possible for a modern thinker. Some users for some dozens of years used this adapter for the M3 if they used a 50mm lens or any wider lens with screw mount - be it 28, 35 or even 21mm, which is not even engraved on the adapter, and therefore makes it useless for a modern thinker. Though at these dark times when nobody thought of modern internet thinking, the users were silly and content using a useless adapter for their thoughtless purpose.

Now, when one of these thoughtless users had an M2, which adapter was thoughtlessly proposed for him, if he wanted to use a lens wider than the widest frame in the camera's viewfinder? Leitz thoughtlessly proposed an adapter which was engraved "21 - 35" even if he wanted to use a screwmount 28mm  lens, which was not engraved on the adapter and therefore makes it useless in the thoughts of a modern thinker. They still followed their thoughtless idea that "21 - 35" was understood by thoughtless users to use an adapter which showed the widest frame even for wider lenses. And for the M2 the widest frame was not 50mm but 35mm. Of course this proposal was thoughtless and made the whole adapter useless.

A modern thinker would use an adapter which showed the 50mm frames with an M3 and an M2 as well when he used a 28mm screwmount lens. Was he allowed to do so? Yes of course, and he still is allowed to do as he thinks. He knows how to use accessory finders. He knows that all engravings on such an adapter are thoughtless and make all these adapters useless. He may go on to think so. Some thoughtless users from the past and present will use their adapters notwithstanding.  

Edited October 2, 2023 by UliWer

[Pyrogallol]

You can always give me the “useless” ones.

[Alberti]

I read somewhere that the “21mm” adapter was meant for the SA in screw mount, therefore also a longer recess.

Edited October 3, 2023 by Alberti

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Hallo,

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[Alberti]

On 9/26/2023 at 7:54 PM, 01maciel said:

Due to lack of a 35mm LTM adapter, I have been using an adapter for my 'new' Summaron 35mm 3.5 that shows a 50mm frame in the OVF. Now I have ordered the same adapter with 35mm frame and find that the rangefinder coupling does not work properly at close range. For about the entire first third of the close-up range, nothing happens at all in the OVF. Another adapter from a different manufacturer behaves exactly the same. What could be the cause?

A problem I have seen is that the cut-out, the recess in its ‘swoosh’ form, could appear in a slight wrong place. Example. When my Nikkor-HC was adapted to be coupled below 1 meter this recess had to be slightly enlarged. At just below 1m the focus wheel will hitt the edge. Might this be a peoblem?