5 years APO-SL 21mm, yes...

[Simone_DF]

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12 minutes ago, trickness said:

If you think of all the possible lenses that Leica could focus their efforts and limited resources on producing, both M and L mount, an APO SL 24 has got to be near the bottom of that list. But I guess we’ll see. They certainly don’t seem to be in any kind of rush to release it. Perhaps if and when the SL3 comes out and becomes wildly popular, things could get interesting.

Oh yes, Leica is way too late to the game. I bet that most people that wanted a 24mm already got one of the Sigmas and are in no rush to upgrade to the APO.

I know for sure I won't buy a 24mm APO and I'll stick to the Sigma f3.5. But I won't buy the 21mm either. 

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[trickness]

6 minutes ago, Simone_DF said:

Oh yes, Leica is way too late to the game. I bet that most people that wanted a 24mm already got one of the Sigmas and are in no rush to upgrade to the APO.

I know for sure I won't buy a 24mm APO and I'll stick to the Sigma f3.5. But I won't buy the 21mm either. 

See? Even you don’t want one 🤣

[BernardC]

3 hours ago, Simone_DF said:

Sigma thinks the 24mm is a good choice and released 3 different variations of a 24mm, plus there's also the Panasonic version.

Canon, Nikon and Sony also have multiple 24mm lenses in their stables, so it is a popular lens after all. 

Don't forget that Leica sells two zooms that start at 24mm, and a third that cover the focal length. We have plenty of high-quality options already, so a future APO 24 will appeal to a very small subset of L-Mount users.

21mm is a more traditional Leica focal length. I think photographers understand it better because it covers 90 degrees horizontally.

[Simone_DF]

1 minute ago, BernardC said:

Don't forget that Leica sells two zooms that start at 24mm, and a third that cover the focal length. We have plenty of high-quality options already, so a future APO 24 will appeal to a very small subset of L-Mount users.

21mm is a more traditional Leica focal length. I think photographers understand it better because it covers 90 degrees horizontally.

Same for Sigma. That 24-70 Leica is a Sigma rebadge. They also have the 16-28 and the 14-24. But I know what you mean, historically Leica users are more attracted to 28 and 21mm

[jplomley]

1 hour ago, Simone_DF said:

Same for Sigma. That 24-70 Leica is a Sigma rebadge. They also have the 16-28 and the 14-24. But I know what you mean, historically Leica users are more attracted to 28 and 21mm

Missing the point....some of us bought into the SL system strictly for the next level performance offered/promised by the APO SC's.....f/2.0, close focus, cinematic rendering, consistency between lenses (color, resolution) etc etc. If I wanted zooms, there are better systems out there.  AFAIC, Leica dropped the ball here big time. 

[Jeff S]

Funny that Leica does include 24mm in their SL 24-90 and SL 24-70 zooms.  They could have opted for starting the wide end at 28mm, and saved size and weight, or maybe added speed or internal zooming.  I would have bought been happier with a smaller zoom range (even, for instance, 16-35, 35-75 and 75- 150), but they marketed the SL zooms by emphasizing the broad focal length range… and including 24mm as an anchor.

Jeff

Edited September 22, 2023 by Jeff S

[Stuart Richardson]

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I remember seeing the leaked datasheet a while back and it did not seem like the MTF was in keeping with the longer lenses. But maybe this was not reflected in the photos. Anyway, if this is the case, perhaps they decided they couldn’t make it good enough to sit next to the rest of the apo summicrons. I believe these aberrations get trickier to deal with the wider you go.

On the other hand, I am surprised we have not seen an rebadged version of one of the Sigma 20/24mm lenses. There are several and quite good. I would think it would plug a hole for some people…clearly not for the most demanding, however. That said, in my experience my 24mm 3.5 was better than my friends 21mm Super Elmar that I compared it to, so I don’t think the Sigmas leave much to be desired in most cases.

Edited September 22, 2023 by Stuart Richardson

[TeleElmar135mm]

If there come some more rebadged lenses then it will be the rest of the Panasonics, build in Portugal. They will not make two production lines, one for Sigma and one for Panasonic. The Panasonics have all the same size, so it will be easier to make a 18, 24 and 85mm "make" by Leica. 

[Simone_DF]

1 hour ago, jplomley said:

Missing the point....some of us bought into the SL system strictly for the next level performance offered/promised by the APO SC's.

You are correct, some of us, but not all, and certainly not enough for Leica, or we'd have a bigger APO lenses selection to choose from. I'm honestly not interested in any other APO lens. I'm even thinking of selling my APO 50 and keep only the 90mm.

[Simone_DF]

1 hour ago, TeleElmar135mm said:

If there come some more rebadged lenses then it will be the rest of the Panasonics, build in Portugal. They will not make two production lines, one for Sigma and one for Panasonic. The Panasonics have all the same size, so it will be easier to make a 18, 24 and 85mm "make" by Leica. 

So far among the rebadges we have:

24-70 made by Sigma

100-400 made by Sigma

35mm made by Panasonic

50mm made by Panasonic

If I'm not mistaken, there were rumors of a rebadged 105mm macro, another Sigma lens

[Sohail]

Optically, the 21mm APO will never be up to the standard of the existing APOs. Software correction will inevitably compromise quality. I wonder if that's what is slowing production.

[Planetwide]

Leica has had 5 years, to fix the production problems. 24mm is a standard photo length in the DSLR world, and most users transitioning to mirrorless want one. Every other manufacturer offers multiple 24mm primes in their existing DSLR lineups.

Edited September 24, 2023 by Planetwide

[BernardC]

On 9/24/2023 at 9:04 AM, Planetwide said:

Every other manufacturer offers multiple 24mm primes in their existing DSLR lineups.

We already have four AF 24mm primes in L-mount: 1.4, 1.8, 2.0, and 3.5. Each of these is price-competitive, and some are class-leading. You can look over the fence, they don't have anything better.

It would be great if Leica released an APO-Summicron L 24mm, but only if it is better than the best.

I suspect there are two reasons for the delay: Leica can't release an APO lens that's only slightly better than the competition; and the 24mm will be the least popular focal length in the APO-Summicron L lineup. One possible third reason is that they are working on a 24mm for the medium format mirrorless system.

I would be disappointed if the 21 wasn't released at the same time as the SL3, mostly because of all of the "it's almost ready" rumours/hearsay we've seen here.

[Simone_DF]

3 hours ago, BernardC said:

We already have four AF 24mm primes in L-mount: 1.4, 1.8, 2.0, and 3.5. Each of these is price-competitive, and some are class-leading. You can look over the fence, they don't have anything better.

We also have 3 AF + 1 MF 20mm primes in L mount, the Sigma DG DN 1.4, the Sigma DG DN 2.0, the old Sigma ART 1.4, plus in L mount we also have the Laowa 20mm F4 shift, though it's a manual lens. The Sigma 1.4 DG DN is class leading as well, great for astrophotography, and a bargain at 900€. Should Leica abandon the 21mm too?

[BernardC]

1 hour ago, Simone_DF said:

We also have 3 AF + 1 MF 20mm primes in L mount, the Sigma DG DN 1.4, the Sigma DG DN 2.0, the old Sigma ART 1.4, plus in L mount we also have the Laowa 20mm F4 shift, though it's a manual lens. The Sigma 1.4 DG DN is class leading as well, great for astrophotography, and a bargain at 900€. Should Leica abandon the 21mm too?

No, not at all. I responded to a comment that other systems have multiple 24mm primes already. The L-mount isn't a laggard in that category.

Leica should do whatever makes the most sense for their business. They've been at it for a long while, they can figure it out.

[LBJ2]

"Leica should do whatever makes the most sense for their business. They've been at it for a long while, they can figure it out." Pretty much the begging and the end of it. But I do hope they will "do" the SL 24 APO as the best 24mm ever made ...before they turn out the lights 😎

[DrM]

Not waiting anymore. It was one of the reasons I sold the SL2 and lenses. This is not a professional ecosystem.

 

[Planetwide]

On 9/25/2023 at 10:15 AM, BernardC said:

We already have four AF 24mm primes in L-mount: 1.4, 1.8, 2.0, and 3.5. Each of these is price-competitive, and some are class-leading. You can look over the fence, they don't have anything better.

It would be great if Leica released an APO-Summicron L 24mm, but only if it is better than the best.

I suspect there are two reasons for the delay: Leica can't release an APO lens that's only slightly better than the competition; and the 24mm will be the least popular focal length in the APO-Summicron L lineup. One possible third reason is that they are working on a 24mm for the medium format mirrorless system.

I would be disappointed if the 21 wasn't released at the same time as the SL3, mostly because of all of the "it's almost ready" rumours/hearsay we've seen here.

You might have missed my point, if 24mm was such an unpopular focal length, then why does every other manufacturer offer it? They offer primes, and their zooms begin and end at this focal length for a reason. Furthermore, we are talking about two lenses that Leica has already announced. They announced them, and then essentially stopped development. 5+ years to bring to market is a joke. In the same period, Sigma developed, tested and put into production the four 24mm lenses that you mentioned. If anybody killed the demand for these APO lenses it was Leica.

Edited September 29, 2023 by Planetwide

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[BernardC]

45 minutes ago, Planetwide said:

You might have missed my point, if 24mm was such an unpopular focal length, then why does every other manufacturer offer it?

I only said that it should be the least popular APO-SL lens, with slightly less demand than the 21 and 28. That's probably why it's the last to be introduced, if we believe rumours that the 21 will be introduced in the next few months.

48 minutes ago, Planetwide said:

we are talking about two lenses that Leica has already announced

They haven't officially announced them. They put them on a roadmap, which is different. I suspect that the 21 will be officially announced when the next SL is announced.

[Simone_DF]

I don’t know. Perhaps a 24mm could sell better than the 28mm.
For me, 28mm is too close to 35mm. And, for people with a Q, it could be seen as a redundant focal length, especially for 5000€ 

On the other hand, 24 and 35 show enough differences to make it worthwhile for some. 
I personally go for 24, 50 and 90mm as my primes.