Hasselblad X1D II 50C Medium Format with 45mm f/4 P Lens Kit Closeout Sale - Worth Considering to compliment my SL2-S gear?

[IkarusJohn]

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2 hours ago, lencap said:

Your responses continue to bring up very well considered thoughts/opinions.  I've not mentioned it, but I admit to relying upon my iPhone 14 Pro more and more.  I've written in other posts about the image quality surprising me, but it continues to do so.  The 48MP sensor is tiny in size, obviously, and the files are ProRaw and quite robust.  Even more useful in real life use, the Apple ecosystem allows for immediate storage and backup through cloud storage, easy editing on any iOs or OSX platform, and the camera is always in my pocket.  It also cost $1K, and for that price I get a camera, internet access, a large and growing catalog of useful apps for almost any field that I'm interested in.

Third party apps, like Halide, allow the user to open Apple's standard camera controls to provide more flexibility and adjustment.  And that brings up another "pet peeve" of mine.  I have an Apple 27" iMac with a 5K screen with a 5120x2880 resolution, the largest I can find.  That's just under 15MP.  My iPad Pro 12.9 (latest version) with a 2732x2048 screen resolution equivalent to 5.6MP.  The Apple PRO Display, with a cost of $5K, displays 6016X3384 pixels, 20.4MP in total.  That's the highest resolution screen I can find.  So please tell me: "Where exactly am I supposed to view ANY modern camera's full sensor output without pixel binning?"  And if the answer to that is "No Where" can someone please explain the mad rush to moving to a larger and larger sensors?  What true use is a 60MP sensor?  Viewing it requires interpolation, not pixel matching.

My 24MP SL2-S has more resolution than any screen, including Apple's top of the line $5K offering.  Can I really tell the difference among 6 million plus different shades/colors on any device?  That's what made film so appealing.  The limited dynamic range relied upon composition to tell a story.  Now I can take a mediocre image, press a few Photoshop buttons/sliders, and have a dramatic image.  But it's not a true representation of what the sensor captured, it's an interpretaion.  That's not necessarily bad, but somehow I still enjoy looking at Ansel Adams' images in person.  And even then, his film and darkroom techniques were limited as well.  His Zone System realized that and compensated.  Today's tools are far more powerful and accessible.

And that also is part of my confusion.  I own more and more technical gear, capable of great wonders, but I can never actually see what they produce.  Yes, I know this is a bit extreme, but so is $9K for a M11 camera body that DELIBERATELY  gives you the option of engaging pixel binning for the final output!  So, in the grand scheme, if owning Leica (or Hasselblad) is seen as a combination of creativeness and technical capability that can't be fully realized, does that make the hobby any less appealing?  No, not to me, but ignoring the strides that the "disruptors" like Apple that use some forms of AI to process images is also worth considering.

I listen to Peter Karbe wax eloquently about the technical superiority of Lecia APO lenses, and admire the skill and competence it takes to create such marvels.  But does a near perfect MTF chart transfer to a way to actually see pixel for pixel what that output looks like?  I admire Sean Reid's highly knowledgeable and technical reviews, but how many non-photography people actually consider chromatic aberration at 1000% of life size something to ponder?  Do I think less of Ansel Adams image because it doesn't have 17 stops of dynamic resolution?  Is that even possible?  HDR Images tend to suggest yes, it is.  But when you look at the resolution of our screens and lack of looking at an image on an actual photograph, preferably one properly lit and hanging on a wall, I wonder if we're overly fixated on specs.  If so, I'm at least as guilty of it as anyone else.

As I look over the last 6 decades I have boxes of pictures taken years ago, and those boxes are smaller and smaller every year.  I have very few actual pictures, and those that I have are rarely as large as 10x12.  And that's my last "old man, get off my lawn" thorn in my side.  Why does a 35mm camera have a 3:2 format, and yet standard size prints rarely accommodate that size natively?  

OK, rant over, I'm going to take a nap and wait for Jeopardy to come on TV.  Oh, wait, I can't watch it.  Spectrum is fighting with Disney, and they don't broadcast the ABC network programs.  So now even my TV shows are "pixel binning" since I can't watch them!  Now that I think about it, I'm glad I'm old.  Life's changing too quickly, and it seems common sense has often given way to clever marketing.  And don't get me started on Rolex watch prices!

Be well everyone, I'll take my meds now and be quiet for a bit.

Thanks again for the thoughts/opinions/comments; despite all evidence to the contrary they are actually helping me clarify some nagging issues.

You’re lost in the tech, mate.  None of that matters as an end in itself.  It’s about the most pleasant and inspiring (perhaps) way to take pictures.  That’s what Leica and Hasselbald have always been about.

Edited September 7, 2023 by IkarusJohn

[FlashGordonPhotography]

You don't want an X1DII. It's blatantly obvious that what you really want is a 907x.

You can even throw a hoodman on the rear LCD for that old school top down view experience, if you want. The 907x is an absolute joy to use, if you're missing the vibe of a 500 or similar.

Despite the difference between an SL2 and X1D/907x being marginal gains in IQ and backwards in flexibility and speed, the X1DII and 907x still bring something to the table that makes them very satisfying to use. And the long exposure implementation is incredible.

Gordon

[Jeff S]

Also available for rental.

Jeff

[IkarusJohn]

6 minutes ago, Jeff S said:

Also available for rental.

Jeff

Sure, through Lensrentals in the US.  Not so much if he lives somewhere else … he might live somewhere else?

[lencap]

Gordon - You seem like a perfectly nice person.   Why do you want to tempt me with the 907X?  That's not fair!  

I am in the US, and Lensrentals is an option.  I'm not sure yet if I'll use their service or not.

One thing that's a bit disturbing, and I've heard about it when I inquired about the Hasselblad at a dealer not too far from me, they do seem to have issues with service and quality control.  The dealer didn't have a reason why it's an issue, just noted that it has been something to consider.  Leica too has had some issues, especially the 2022 M6 infamous "film scratching" episode.

Regardless, I keep returning to both brands, and likely will continue to do so.  I also realize that I'm not very proficient on setting controls to optimize the potential of the SL2-S.  I've been diving into the manual again (I didn't realize you're actually allowed to read it!), and watching some YouTube tutorials.  Apparently I've not drilled down enough into the potential and will do so over the coming weeks.

Thanks again everyone.

[Jeff S]

58 minutes ago, IkarusJohn said:

Sure, through Lensrentals in the US.  Not so much if he lives somewhere else … he might live somewhere else?

No shit.  Post was for the OP, a continuation from my post #13 for him, mentioning Lensrentals specifically, as he lives in the US. Helps to do a profile search first, as I always do.  

BTW, I also verified gear availability before posting.

Nothing better to do, John?

Jeff

Edited September 7, 2023 by Jeff S

[IkarusJohn]

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Now, now, Jeff.  No need to get snippy.  You'll be telling me to make prints next!  😀

[Jeff S]

Do what you want with your time. Although consider putting me on your ignore list; might increase your productivity… and mine.

BTW, Lensrentals isn’t the only camera rental place in the US.  I didn’t mention BorrowLenses in this case, as they have the camera, but not the lens the OP wants. 

Jeff

[IkarusJohn]

8 minutes ago, Jeff S said:

Do what you want with your time. Although consider putting me on your ignore list; might increase your productivity… and mine.

BTW, Lensrentals isn’t the only camera rental place in the US.  I didn’t mention BorrowLenses in this case, as they have the camera, but not the lens the OP wants. 

Jeff

Where would the fun be in that! 😀

[Jeff S]

For me, obviously.  Fewer trolls.

Jeff

[IkarusJohn]

31 minutes ago, Jeff S said:

For me, obviously.  Fewer trolls.

Jeff

Go on, add me to your ignore list.  You know you want to!

[Jeff S]

I don’t use the ignore list.  Mods eventually deal with trolls.

Jeff

[Chris W]

I had an SL (601). Returned it. I found it heavy an unergonomic. I'm sure the SL2 is a different beast with another step up in image quality.

The X1D2 has fantastic image quality and colour science. It's vey easy to walk around with.

I got into medium format film (again) about two years ago, but soon got disenchanted - the increasing cost of film, developing and scanning, plus the wait time to see my results.

When I got era X1D2 I sold my M240, and had already returned the original SL.

[JohnathanLovm]

Yes, and please consider add a good flash (such as Profoto) to take advantage of leaf shutter. 

[tom0511]

User of both systems, sl and Hassy (before x1d,x1dii, now x2d).

My comment here:

-I find the Hassies shine with their good color, skin color and natural, detailed look

-I found the x1d series a bit slow, specially turning on and off, as well as shutter release delay - SL2-s feels more instant and faster - so for me the Hassy handels nice but for me not better than the SL-cameras, because its a bit slowish. it also does not offer face detection, but the SL-cameras do offer this.

 -x1d with the 45 is smaller and lighter than a sl+35apo

-the xcd lenses are quite good, but show more vignetting and IMO the most SL lenses show a slighty smoother bokeh as well

-I really like the 38 and 55 lenses because they are compact , light, more quiet and fast aparture

-the sl2-s is a much more complete system, plus you can also use your m-lenses

II have thought several times about letting Hassy go - yes, you gain a little bit of even nicer color, but the system is much less flexible than the SL system, and the SL lenses are probably even better than the Hassy lenses. So far my x2d is still here - but I dont use it as much as I should.

If I recommend something to you - buy the Hassy only if you want theis additional small extra of IQ. The handling would not be a reason for me to prefer the Hassy over the SL-series.

 

[Olaf_ZG]

To me, the only real difference is long exposure possibilities. Hasselblad shines here and Leica is way behind. I am really rethinking for this price. Will keep the SL with zooms only plus m-adapter, sell all primes and invest in HB.

Today I asked my dealer if he can make similar offer as Adorama.

[T25UFO]

19 hours ago, IkarusJohn said:

Go on, add me to your ignore list.  You know you want to!

I never thought I'd see anyone call that nice Mr IkarusJohn a troll.

Please ignore and continue.  I (and I'm sure many others) value your contribution.

[Jeff S]

1 hour ago, T25UFO said:

I never thought I'd see anyone call that nice Mr IkarusJohn a troll

Different when you’re the one being trolled. 😏

Mr. Jeff

[IkarusJohn]

1 hour ago, T25UFO said:

I never thought I'd see anyone call that nice Mr IkarusJohn a troll.

Please ignore and continue.  I (and I'm sure many others) value your contribution.

Apologies for stimulatinga boring exchange.  Normal programming resumed.

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Hallo,

Look here: Leica L-Mount

[MarkP]

On 9/8/2023 at 1:12 AM, IkarusJohn said:

Perhaps something to consider is the reality of using the X system:

• the body is a little larger in the hand than the SL(601), but is the best camera in the hand, bar none
• the system is heavier than the comparable SL set up - it’s medium format
• lenses re stellar
• the controls and menu set up is even better than Leica’s
• the image quality is sublime
• everything is a little slower and more considered

With the X2D and V lenses, you also get IBIS, true manual focus (not the vague feeling by wire) and an aperture ring on the lens.  So, set up with one lens, heavy, but not too bad; total control with effectively one layer of menu screen giving direct tap access to everything you need.

The pleasure of Hasselblad ownership?  Absolutely.  Film?  Well, I have two film cameras, and love them.  The simplicity of shooting film is fantastic.  But, I have a stack of exposed films on my desk - can’t really be bothered developing them myself, waiting to drop them off at the photo shop up the road, then I have to scan them, before I then process them.

Meanwhile, I’d rather be out taking photos …

Are those rolls of film in your drawer  the same rolls you commented on three or four years ago?

😁