Q3 or Sony A7CR

[eibenbaum]

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Am 3.9.2023 um 07:38 schrieb idusidusi:

A friend has suggested I look at the Sony in preference to the Q3. Anyone any thoughts on this would be appreciated.

Sony A7c with ZA 4/24-70 is a dream team with superb image quality, very handsome and a bullish Accu.

[Rdf]

3 hours ago, eibenbaum said:

Sony A7c with ZA 4/24-70 is a dream team with superb image quality, very handsome and a bullish Accu.

FWIW. It was this combination that admitted dust onto the sensor during a seaside visit, that led to me getting a better  sealed system (OM-1 with 12-100mm f4).  Otherwise the Sony was really nice. - The better weather sealing, along with the other qualities of the Q2, ultimately brought me back to Leica. 

[1945 Mouton]

On 9/3/2023 at 4:06 PM, idusidusi said:

It is not a valid question, more a musing as what to go for. I sold my gear and I want to lighten my load and bulk. Am happy with the LUX-5 for telephoto and hope to be happy with the Q3 as its companion  the cost being covered.

Your question is a valid question.  The answer really lies on what kind of photography you do.  I have the Sony A1, A7RV and the Q3.  For everyday walkaround and vacations, the Q3 is with me.  It's refreshing not having to lug a lot of gear around.  But for bird photography, which is mostly what I shoot, the A1 is without equal. Its 30fps with no blackout and the autofocus system are critical for me to get my shots.  The A7RV's autofocus system is even better than the A1, but the 10fps and the VF blackout make it pretty much unuseable for birds in flight.  Since I don't shoot landscapes much anymore, the A&RV pretty much sits in my gear cabinet.

For automobile shows and festivals, I think those represent a sweet spot for the Q3, especially with its macro mode, as long as you are happy with the lack of changeable lenses and the slower (not a bad thing) pace of shooting.

[SrMi]

6 hours ago, eibenbaum said:

Sony A7c with ZA 4/24-70 is a dream team with superb image quality, very handsome and a bullish Accu.

 My experience is different, and I think that the ZA 4/24-70 is a low-quality lens (it was my first Sony lens). I heard stories that some got a good sample, but most owners were disappointed (based on reading the forums). It seems to me that, unlike Nikon's excellent 4/24-70, almost nobody considers Sony's 4/24-70 anymore.

Edited September 10, 2023 by SrMi

[bobtodrick]

2 hours ago, SrMi said:

 My experience is different, and I think that the ZA 4/24-70 is a low-quality lens (it was my first Sony lens). I heard stories that some got a good sample, but most owners were disappointed (based on reading the forums). It seems to me that, unlike Nikon's excellent 4/24-70, almost nobody considers Sony's 4/24-70 anymore.

Are we talking the same lens…most reviews read like this, which is very good

https://amateurphotographer.com/review/sony-carl-zeiss-vario-tessar-t-fe-24-70mm-f4-za-oss-review/

[SrMi]

9 minutes ago, bobtodrick said:

Are we talking the same lens…most reviews read like this, which is very good

https://amateurphotographer.com/review/sony-carl-zeiss-vario-tessar-t-fe-24-70mm-f4-za-oss-review/

Yes. In practice, that lens seems to be considered a dud by most. I know that mine was really useless. On the other hand, the 4/20-70 is quite good, and 28-60 is better as well.

[Rdf]

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5 hours ago, Rdf said:

FWIW. It was this combination that admitted dust onto the sensor during a seaside visit, that led to me getting a better  sealed system (OM-1 with 12-100mm f4).  Otherwise the Sony was really nice. - The better weather sealing, along with the other qualities of the Q2, ultimately brought me back to Leica. 

Correction: It was a Sony lens, NOT Zeiss. Sorry!

[eibenbaum]

vor 2 Stunden schrieb SrMi:

 My experience is different, and I think that the ZA 4/24-70 is a low-quality lens (it was my first Sony lens). I heard stories that some got a good sample, but most owners were disappointed (based on reading the forums). It seems to me that, unlike Nikon's excellent 4/24-70, almost nobody considers Sony's 4/24-70 anymore.

even from Leica you can get a not so well centered Lens. My Zeiss A. is very sharp with a nice color rendering,which sony lenses don't have.

[Cogito]

One more (rather obscure) difference between Q3 and A7CR, no interchangeable lenses are allowed in the White House:

 

[idusidusi]

35 minutes ago, Cogito said:

One more (rather obscure) difference between Q3 and A7CR, no interchangeable lenses are allowed in the White House:

 

No interchangeable lenses allowed? So a VLUX-5 24-400 is allowed in the White House? Weird.

[Cogito]

16 minutes ago, idusidusi said:

No interchangeable lenses allowed? So a VLUX-5 24-400 is allowed in the White House? Weird.

sorry, wasn’t prepared for internet snark to start so early this morning. as stated in video, “no interchangeable lenses and no fixed lenses greater in length than three inches.”

[idusidusi]

1 hour ago, Cogito said:

sorry, wasn’t prepared for internet snark to start so early this morning. as stated in video, “no interchangeable lenses and no fixed lenses greater in length than three inches.”

Did not want to sound snarky at all, genuine amazement if I look at reporters everywhere with far bigger lenses than 3" in length.

[bobtodrick]

3 hours ago, Cogito said:

sorry, wasn’t prepared for internet snark to start so early this morning. as stated in video, “no interchangeable lenses and no fixed lenses greater in length than three inches.”

Response didn’t seem snarky at all…he just made a comment…sort of like you left?!

[Cogito]

29 minutes ago, bobtodrick said:

Response didn’t seem snarky at all…he just made a comment…sort of like you left?!

mea culpa, to me it seemed as if he commented without having actually watched the video I posted. thought it was clear they don't allow long lenses on white house tours and that he'd not gone as a reporter. my mistake. 

[FlashGordonPhotography]

Picked up my A7CR a couple of days ago. Lots of drivel in this thread. What's with the camera comparison picture that shows a different camera and a 1.4 lens??

1. The A7CR with Sony 28/2 is smaller and lighter than the Q3. Resolution across the frame is about the same. The Q3 lens is slightly wider and it draws better. It's also a 1/4 stop faster. The Sony doesn't suffer from as much digital enhancement in the corners so it's a wash. There's some sample variation in the Sony 28/2 but mine is razor sharp.

2. The Sony colour science has improved a lot but the Leica still has better colour out of the box.

3. The A7CR autofocus embarrasses the Q3. The Sony IBIS is better too.

4. You can't get a 61MP 50mm image from the Q3 so unless you REALLY like a 26-27mm lens.........

5 There's over a dozen great lens options for the Sony that keep the size similar to the Q3. The f2 Sigma's are very very nice and my personal favourite the 55mm 1.8 is sensational on the Sony. What's missing is a 105-120mm small sharp AF option. You can also use the f4 zooms with no handling issues.

6. The Sony sits in the hand better than the Q3 without extras. The Sony comes with a super light grip extension in the box which works great with the 20-70 and new 70-200f4.

7. The Q3 menus are better, just. But you have vast customisation of the A7CR buttons so you need the quick menus less than the Leica.

8. The EVF is MUCH better on the Q3. Same with the LCD. But even though the resolution is low the A7CR evf works because the optics are good and so is the magnification. It's a big improvement on the original A7C.

9. There are too many buttons on the Sony but at least most of them are programable. I don't find the Q3 buttons to be great but they're an improvement on the Q2, I suppose.

10. The Sony shutter is LOUD. Probably my least favorite thing about the whole system. A stealth camera it 'aint.

The Leica is the more tactile engaging experience overall, even though you can use lenses with aperture rings on the A7RC just fine. The Leica will maintain it's hipster driven popularity, like the X100 series and you'll need to wait to get one. But since Leica has ignored the requests for a compact interchangeable solution based around the Q body or even a few other fixed focal lengths, now another company has come in and taken that market. Now I have a 28/50/90 system that weighs less than an M (about the same as the CL actually) with STELLAR IQ and spectacular autofocus it is likely that Leica will lose some Q3 sales to those who didn't want to be stuck with a 26-28mm lens. Once again Leicas arrogance will cost them some sales that they were basically guaranteed if they listened to their audience. They could have made a CL2 or a QL but they didn't. Now Sony will take that buyer. And I fully expect that Sony, Sigma, Tamron and half a dozen others will jump on the opportunity to make a line of high quality small lenses for the system. If you build it, they will come..... 

I can already tell that the A7CII and A7CR will be a triumph for Sony. It'll likely replace my M11, SL2 and Q's for travel and as a backup to my larger systems. My M11M is really the only Leica camera I'm using regularly at the moment. K loves the Q3 (she can crop as she doesn't really print like I do) but I need a lot more than a fixed 28mm.

Gordon

[Rdf]

4 hours ago, FlashGordonPhotography said:

Picked up my A7CR a couple of days ago. Lots of drivel in this thread. What's with the camera comparison picture that shows a different camera and a 1.4 lens??

1. The A7CR with Sony 28/2 is smaller and lighter than the Q3. Resolution across the frame is about the same. The Q3 lens is slightly wider and it draws better. It's also a 1/4 stop faster. The Sony doesn't suffer from as much digital enhancement in the corners so it's a wash. There's some sample variation in the Sony 28/2 but mine is razor sharp.

2. The Sony colour science has improved a lot but the Leica still has better colour out of the box.

3. The A7CR autofocus embarrasses the Q3. The Sony IBIS is better too.

4. You can't get a 61MP 50mm image from the Q3 so unless you REALLY like a 26-27mm lens.........

5 There's over a dozen great lens options for the Sony that keep the size similar to the Q3. The f2 Sigma's are very very nice and my personal favourite the 55mm 1.8 is sensational on the Sony. What's missing is a 105-120mm small sharp AF option. You can also use the f4 zooms with no handling issues.

6. The Sony sits in the hand better than the Q3 without extras. The Sony comes with a super light grip extension in the box which works great with the 20-70 and new 70-200f4.

7. The Q3 menus are better, just. But you have vast customisation of the A7CR buttons so you need the quick menus less than the Leica.

8. The EVF is MUCH better on the Q3. Same with the LCD. But even though the resolution is low the A7CR evf works because the optics are good and so is the magnification. It's a big improvement on the original A7C.

9. There are too many buttons on the Sony but at least most of them are programable. I don't find the Q3 buttons to be great but they're an improvement on the Q2, I suppose.

10. The Sony shutter is LOUD. Probably my least favorite thing about the whole system. A stealth camera it 'aint.

The Leica is the more tactile engaging experience overall, even though you can use lenses with aperture rings on the A7RC just fine. The Leica will maintain it's hipster driven popularity, like the X100 series and you'll need to wait to get one. But since Leica has ignored the requests for a compact interchangeable solution based around the Q body or even a few other fixed focal lengths, now another company has come in and taken that market. Now I have a 28/50/90 system that weighs less than an M (about the same as the CL actually) with STELLAR IQ and spectacular autofocus it is likely that Leica will lose some Q3 sales to those who didn't want to be stuck with a 26-28mm lens. Once again Leicas arrogance will cost them some sales that they were basically guaranteed if they listened to their audience. They could have made a CL2 or a QL but they didn't. Now Sony will take that buyer. And I fully expect that Sony, Sigma, Tamron and half a dozen others will jump on the opportunity to make a line of high quality small lenses for the system. If you build it, they will come..... 

I can already tell that the A7CII and A7CR will be a triumph for Sony. It'll likely replace my M11, SL2 and Q's for travel and as a backup to my larger systems. My M11M is really the only Leica camera I'm using regularly at the moment. K loves the Q3 (she can crop as she doesn't really print like I do) but I need a lot more than a fixed 28mm.

Gordon

Thank you. Any weather sealing issues or concerns?

[Qwertynm]

vor 5 Stunden schrieb FlashGordonPhotography:

Once again Leicas arrogance will cost them some sales that they were basically guaranteed if they listened to their audience.

pretty sure the guys and gals at Leica right now ...

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Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members!

you certainly have some fair points. at the end of the day everyone chooses the camera that either best suits their needs or just simply the camera they like to pick up better, that inspires more. For me currently it's the Q3 over others I have access to. YMMV

[bobtodrick]

6 hours ago, FlashGordonPhotography said:

Picked up my A7CR a couple of days ago. Lots of drivel in this thread. What's with the camera comparison picture that shows a different camera and a 1.4 lens??

1. The A7CR with Sony 28/2 is smaller and lighter than the Q3. Resolution across the frame is about the same. The Q3 lens is slightly wider and it draws better. It's also a 1/4 stop faster. The Sony doesn't suffer from as much digital enhancement in the corners so it's a wash. There's some sample variation in the Sony 28/2 but mine is razor sharp.

2. The Sony colour science has improved a lot but the Leica still has better colour out of the box.

3. The A7CR autofocus embarrasses the Q3. The Sony IBIS is better too.

4. You can't get a 61MP 50mm image from the Q3 so unless you REALLY like a 26-27mm lens.........

5 There's over a dozen great lens options for the Sony that keep the size similar to the Q3. The f2 Sigma's are very very nice and my personal favourite the 55mm 1.8 is sensational on the Sony. What's missing is a 105-120mm small sharp AF option. You can also use the f4 zooms with no handling issues.

6. The Sony sits in the hand better than the Q3 without extras. The Sony comes with a super light grip extension in the box which works great with the 20-70 and new 70-200f4.

7. The Q3 menus are better, just. But you have vast customisation of the A7CR buttons so you need the quick menus less than the Leica.

8. The EVF is MUCH better on the Q3. Same with the LCD. But even though the resolution is low the A7CR evf works because the optics are good and so is the magnification. It's a big improvement on the original A7C.

9. There are too many buttons on the Sony but at least most of them are programable. I don't find the Q3 buttons to be great but they're an improvement on the Q2, I suppose.

10. The Sony shutter is LOUD. Probably my least favorite thing about the whole system. A stealth camera it 'aint.

The Leica is the more tactile engaging experience overall, even though you can use lenses with aperture rings on the A7RC just fine. The Leica will maintain it's hipster driven popularity, like the X100 series and you'll need to wait to get one. But since Leica has ignored the requests for a compact interchangeable solution based around the Q body or even a few other fixed focal lengths, now another company has come in and taken that market. Now I have a 28/50/90 system that weighs less than an M (about the same as the CL actually) with STELLAR IQ and spectacular autofocus it is likely that Leica will lose some Q3 sales to those who didn't want to be stuck with a 26-28mm lens. Once again Leicas arrogance will cost them some sales that they were basically guaranteed if they listened to their audience. They could have made a CL2 or a QL but they didn't. Now Sony will take that buyer. And I fully expect that Sony, Sigma, Tamron and half a dozen others will jump on the opportunity to make a line of high quality small lenses for the system. If you build it, they will come..... 

I can already tell that the A7CII and A7CR will be a triumph for Sony. It'll likely replace my M11, SL2 and Q's for travel and as a backup to my larger systems. My M11M is really the only Leica camera I'm using regularly at the moment. K loves the Q3 (she can crop as she doesn't really print like I do) but I need a lot more than a fixed 28mm.

Gordon

My son has the A7cll with a couple of Sigma primes…just picked up the Voightlander 50mm F1.2…a fantastic lens for those who remember how to manually focus 😂.

I have very specific needs for the photography I do, and the 28mm on my Q suits me perfectly (plus I’m a sucker for the red dot).

But if my shooting required more focal lengths…one of the Sony’s would be in my bag.

Great comparison!

Edited October 9, 2023 by bobtodrick

[FlashGordonPhotography]

8 hours ago, Rdf said:

Thank you. Any weather sealing issues or concerns?

Excellent point. The short answer is I hadn't really considered that yet but I probably should.

Sony cameras have generally not really performed well as far as weather sealing goes, although they have improved a bit. The A7R2 touted weather sealing gaskets but completely omitted one along the base plate..... But the Q series also isn't known for super robust weather sealing. Generally I'll take any camera out in light rain and just be careful, even an M11. I've actually never had a camera fail because of the weather in 35 years. That includes early Sony's and M9's in the rain at weddings and M(240)'s in factories and industrial sites. But I'm not shooting those any more. Now if it's pouring down I'd really only trust two systems. My SL2 or OM-1. Maybe my GFX100II.... Actually almost certainly the GFX.

Since the A7RC is a travel and daily small camera I'm likely to hide in a pub if the weather is awful. It'll be fine in there.  And if I'm deliberately shooting in awful weather I'm using something more serious like the X2D or GFX systems. That's far less likely now I'm not shooting for clients. Plus I know enough to not change lenses when the conditions are bad and I can stick a small zoom on the A7RC and be done with it.

Gordon

p.s. I did pick up a used Q2M from my local Leica store yesterday. So now I have the Q2, Q3 and Q2M. I think this is a camera I'm more likely to carry than a colour version except that K took one look at it and hid it in her office with the Q3......... Looks like I'm stuck with the M11M..... haha. It just goes to show that even within our home everybody has different preferences.

Gordon

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Hallo,

Look here: Leica Q

[Rdf]

8 minutes ago, FlashGordonPhotography said:

Excellent point. The short answer is I hadn't really considered that yet but I probably should.

Sony cameras have generally not really performed well as far as weather sealing goes, although they have improved a bit. The A7R2 touted weather sealing gaskets but completely omitted one along the base plate..... But the Q series also isn't known for super robust weather sealing. Generally I'll take any camera out in light rain and just be careful, even an M11. I've actually never had a camera fail because of the weather in 35 years. That includes early Sony's and M9's in the rain at weddings and M(240)'s in factories and industrial sites. But I'm not shooting those any more. Now if it's pouring down I'd really only trust two systems. My SL2 or OM-1. Maybe my GFX100II.... Actually almost certainly the GFX.

Since the A7RC is a travel and daily small camera I'm likely to hide in a pub if the weather is awful. It'll be fine in there.  And if I'm deliberately shooting in awful weather I'm using something more serious like the X2D or GFX systems. That's far less likely now I'm not shooting for clients. Plus I know enough to not change lenses when the conditions are bad and I can stick a small zoom on the A7RC and be done with it.

Gordon

p.s. I did pick up a used Q2M from my local Leica store yesterday. So now I have the Q2, Q3 and Q2M. I think this is a camera I'm more likely to carry than a colour version except that K took one look at it and hid it in her office with the Q3......... Looks like I'm stuck with the M11M..... haha. It just goes to show that even within our home everybody has different preferences.

Gordon

Thank you. Quite helpful. I’ve had bad luck with sensor dust & Sony. Had the OM-1 for a while. It did nicely in wind/dust, etc. Moved to the Q2 for image quality. So far so good. (Well hiding with a camera in a pub will keep one of you dry 🤣).  Happy times!