Help identifying lens and camera (Leica III)

[neroin]

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Hello enthusiast!

Hoping this is the right place to post this.

My girlfriends grandmother recently passed, and while clearing out her apartment, we found an old (what appears to be) Leica III from around 1936/1937. Her grandfather (who passed in the 40s I believe) was into photography.

I was hoping someone could help identify the camera, lens (doesn't seem to be Leica, but Carl Zeiss Jena), and other equipment. (and I would appreciate if someone could tell me how to properly clean of the green-bluish goo).

Thank you!

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[Anbaric]

Leica IIIa with a Soviet Jupiter-8 lens? Some sort of attachment or modification to the shutter speed dial (for flash sync?). Serial number suggests a III from 1936/7 (which would have a top speed of 500) rather than a IIIa, but the lists aren't always accurate and/or cameras may have been upgraded. Is that a right-angle finder?

Edited August 24, 2023 by Anbaric

[jaapv]

I think that that long optic may be part of some spotting scope

[Darrell]

Carl Zeiss Jena is just the blue filter screwed into the front of the lens. It isn’t part of the lens (you can unscrew it). The lens itself appears to be a 50mm Soviet “Jupiter 8” lens.

[Anbaric]

With the camera wound on, can the shutter speed dial be lifted and rotated so that the arrow on the accessory shoe lines up with the 1000 setting, or does it stop at 500? If that is a third party modification, it may be a 'one size fits all' gizmo engraved for both the III (max 500) and IIIa (max 1000).

With that corrosion (or whatever it is) on the outside, it likely needs internal cleaning, lubrication and adjustment by a professional (which is worth doing anyway if you're going to use it, but isn't generally cost-effective it you intend to sell it).

Edited August 24, 2023 by Anbaric

[neroin]

2 hours ago, Anbaric said:

Leica IIIa with a Soviet Jupiter-8 lens? Some sort of attachment or modification to the shutter speed dial (for flash sync?). Serial number suggests a III from 1936/7 (which would have a top speed of 500) rather than a IIIa, but the lists aren't always accurate and/or cameras may have been upgraded. Is that a right-angle finder?

I think you might be right. The attachment does seem like it could be for flash sync.

 

1 hour ago, Darrell said:

Carl Zeiss Jena is just the blue filter screwed into the front of the lens. It isn’t part of the lens (you can unscrew it). The lens itself appears to be a 50mm Soviet “Jupiter 8” lens.

See that I didn't even notice, but makes perfect sense. It's a bit tight at the moment, so I'll carefully see if I can take it off. Looks almost identical to the red filter I have in a bag with film.

1 hour ago, Anbaric said:

With the camera wound on, can the shutter speed dial be lifted and rotated so that the arrow on the accessory shoe lines up with the 1000 setting, or does it stop at 500? If that is a third party modification, it may be a 'one size fits all' gizmo engraved for both the III (max 500) and IIIa (max 1000).

With that corrosion (or whatever it is) on the outside, it likely needs internal cleaning, lubrication and adjustment by a professional (which is worth doing anyway if you're going to use it, but isn't generally cost-effective it you intend to sell it).

It can be lifted and rotated to the 1000 setting. So it seems to be the IIIa, if that's the case.

I will definitely reach out to a specialist to see if they can give it some cleaning etc.

Thank you all for your answers!

[jerzy]

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Speed dial is for flash sync, do not know exactly which company produced it.
later III have already dial disc ( hidden under top cover) with the hole for 1/1000, so only dial and one more part had to be replaced to do DYI conversion to IIIa. On early III it requires more parts, possibly even the whole shutter on camera under approx 150xxx.
removing greenish residue goes well with alcohol. But as anbaric mentioned camera shall be CLA-ed

[willeica]

The lens is a Jupiter 8 P3030 50mm f2 lens from 1956.

http://www.sovietcams.com/index3ed2.html?tmpl_into=middle&tmpl_id=471&_m_e_id=5&_menu_i_id=459

It would have come from the Zorki, Krasnogorsk factory in Russia and it is essentially a copy of a Zeiss Sonnar lens. These are very good lenses, as is the f1.5 Jupiter 3, of which I bought a good copy in St Petersburg some years ago.

The camera is a III or IIIa. The strange shaped shutter speed dial may be related to a flash sync system of some kind, although the ones I have seen are usually cam shaped. This may mean that the 1/1000th feature does not exist on the camera. Someone has suggested a way of checking this. 

The black device looks like a magnifier of some kind. The logo is not to be found here http://cameras.alfredklomp.com/logos/ , but the nearest one to it is the KMZ - Krasnogorsk logo.

William 

[Anbaric]

1 hour ago, neroin said:

I will definitely reach out to a specialist to see if they can give it some cleaning etc.

Let us know what country you are in if you need suggestions for a good technician.

If you're going to use it, it's worth reading the original manual:

https://www.butkus.org/chinon/leica/leica_iiia/leica_iiia.htm

I think the description of loading is a bit clearer in the later IIIf manual (p27 onwards):

https://www.butkus.org/chinon/leica/leica_if_iif_iiif/leica_if_iif_iiif.htm

One thing that may not be obvious is that a modern film leader should be trimmed to the profile shown on p29, longer and thinner than is standard today, taking care not to cut through any sprocket holes. You can use scissors, or a sharp knife and template like the (now overpriced) Leica ABLON (or a plastic ebay equivalent). An untrimmed leader can become damaged and fragments of it may jam the camera, potentially causing damage.

[rfaspen]

Not sure I like the location of the flash connection.  But, this could be a very enjoyable camera to use (without flash) 😁.

I have a few Jupiter 8 lenses.  This one from 1956 is a good era.  Performance can be identical to Zeiss sonnar 50/2 of the same period.  However focal length standards of Zeiss (and Jupiters) slightly different than Leica so focussing can (critical word here: can) be slightly off.  Some Jupiters are too far off in true focal length and frustrate users on Leica cameras.  Just as often the Jupiter is off tolerance in the other direction and becomes a wonderful lens on the Leica.  Much has been written about this...a dive into literature and yes also the internet can give more info.

I'd be thrilled to try out that combo.

Isn't that finder a WINKU?  Such an interesting accessory.....

[Anbaric]

1 hour ago, rfaspen said:

Isn't that finder a WINKU?  Such an interesting accessory.....

WINTU?

See (p18):

https://www.cameramanuals.org/leica_pdf/leica_accessory_guide.pdf

and:

http://www.wetzlar-historica-italia.it/MIRINIANGOLARI.html

Translation:

https://www-wetzlar--historica--italia-it.translate.goog/MIRINIANGOLARI.html?_x_tr_sch=http&_x_tr_sl=auto&_x_tr_tl=en&_x_tr_hl=en-US&_x_tr_pto=wapp

[Michael Geschlecht]

Hello Everybody,

The long, narrow tube with a point at the bottom is a pocket microscope. This 1 is for 40X - 50X - 60X magnification. Or in between.

A person puts the point on the bottom where the item to be viewed is & then pulls out the tube to the required magnification.

The eyepiece adjusts or/& pulls out to focus.

It fits in a shirt pocket, pretty much like a fountain pen.

It is better to keep it in a long, narrow plastic bag in order to keep it clean.

If it requires cleaning, most pocket microscopes of this type can be easily dis-assembled, cleaned & reassembled in a few minutes.

Unless they have been sitting too long. Then this should be done slowly & carefully. Even if it takes a few days. Or longer.

By the way:

Hello Neroin,

Welcome to the Forum

Best Regards,

Michael

Edited August 24, 2023 by Michael Geschlecht

[neroin]

10 hours ago, Michael Geschlecht said:

Hello Everybody,

The long, narrow tube with a point at the bottom is a pocket microscope. This 1 is for 40X - 50X - 60X magnification. Or in between.

A person puts the point on the bottom where the item to be viewed is & then pulls out the tube to the required magnification.

The eyepiece adjusts or/& pulls out to focus.

It fits in a shirt pocket, pretty much like a fountain pen.

It is better to keep it in a long, narrow plastic bag in order to keep it clean.

If it requires cleaning, most pocket microscopes of this type can be easily dis-assembled, cleaned & reassembled in a few minutes.

Unless they have been sitting too long. Then this should be done slowly & carefully. Even if it takes a few days. Or longer.

By the way:

Hello Neroin,

Welcome to the Forum

Best Regards,

Michael

Thank you for the welcome, Michael!

Very interesting. I did guess it was a pocket microscope, but it does require a bit of cleaning for it to be optimally working again.

For those interested, the equipment has most likely been sitting on a shelf since 1964, when my girlfriends grandfather passed away. The camera originally belonged to her great grandfather, who married a young german woman. They then relocated to Estonia, where he was from.

13 hours ago, Anbaric said:

WINTU?

See (p18):

https://www.cameramanuals.org/leica_pdf/leica_accessory_guide.pdf

and:

http://www.wetzlar-historica-italia.it/MIRINIANGOLARI.html

Translation:

https://www-wetzlar--historica--italia-it.translate.goog/MIRINIANGOLARI.html?_x_tr_sch=http&_x_tr_sl=auto&_x_tr_tl=en&_x_tr_hl=en-US&_x_tr_pto=wapp

Definitely looks like a WINTU, and works as instructions show. You guys are amazing, and I really appreciate all the help.

14 hours ago, rfaspen said:

Not sure I like the location of the flash connection.  But, this could be a very enjoyable camera to use (without flash) 😁.

I have a few Jupiter 8 lenses.  This one from 1956 is a good era.  Performance can be identical to Zeiss sonnar 50/2 of the same period.  However focal length standards of Zeiss (and Jupiters) slightly different than Leica so focussing can (critical word here: can) be slightly off.  Some Jupiters are too far off in true focal length and frustrate users on Leica cameras.  Just as often the Jupiter is off tolerance in the other direction and becomes a wonderful lens on the Leica.  Much has been written about this...a dive into literature and yes also the internet can give more info.

I'd be thrilled to try out that combo.

Isn't that finder a WINKU?  Such an interesting accessory.....

Intriguing history about the Jupitor-8 lenses. I'm a bit sad that the original Leica lens isn't there, but it does seem like a pretty solid replacement. Biggest obstacle currently is to remove the blue filter, as it seems to be stuck.

14 hours ago, Anbaric said:

Let us know what country you are in if you need suggestions for a good technician.

If you're going to use it, it's worth reading the original manual:

https://www.butkus.org/chinon/leica/leica_iiia/leica_iiia.htm

I think the description of loading is a bit clearer in the later IIIf manual (p27 onwards):

https://www.butkus.org/chinon/leica/leica_if_iif_iiif/leica_if_iif_iiif.htm

One thing that may not be obvious is that a modern film leader should be trimmed to the profile shown on p29, longer and thinner than is standard today, taking care not to cut through any sprocket holes. You can use scissors, or a sharp knife and template like the (now overpriced) Leica ABLON (or a plastic ebay equivalent). An untrimmed leader can become damaged and fragments of it may jam the camera, potentially causing damage.

I appreciate that, but I doubt you have any recommendations for technicians in Estonia? But if you have any recommendations for one in Denmark, then I'm all ears (as a Dane in Estonia).

I actually believe there's a few unused films next to the camera. I need to check out the quality of them, but from first eyesight they looked in pretty mint condition.

[Anbaric]

9 hours ago, neroin said:

I appreciate that, but I doubt you have any recommendations for technicians in Estonia? But if you have any recommendations for one in Denmark, then I'm all ears (as a Dane in Estonia).

I actually believe there's a few unused films next to the camera. I need to check out the quality of them, but from first eyesight they looked in pretty mint condition.

I 've not heard of a technician in Estonia, though someone might have a suggestion if you post a specific thread, and you'll see other recommendations for technicians in the EU here:

https://www.l-camera-forum.com/topic/127326-repair-specialists/

Will van Manen in the Netherlands is often mentioned on this forum:

https://www.kamera-service.info

(website seems to be in maintenance mode right now).

I don't know if @jerzy who posted above takes on routine CLAs.

One guy I've never seen reviewed here but who makes a lot of interesting repair videos on YouTube is in Copenhagen:

https://oneofmanycameras.com/pages/repair

I would check the expiry date on that film 🙂.

[jerzy]

Thx Anbaric, more complicated as well. @neroin - drop me PM in case you will not find anyone else 

[nitroplait]

16 hours ago, Anbaric said:

One guy I've never seen reviewed here but who makes a lot of interesting repair videos on YouTube is in Copenhagen:

https://oneofmanycameras.com/pages/repair

There is a big caveat here: To have your repair done in this shop, you have to go through the owner (not the guy in the video).

He has a serious alpha male issue. He will not respect you unless you know how to bark loudly back at him.

My one (non Leica) repair experience with the shop last year was buying a camera described like this (the text below is even on the invoice):

"CLA August 1, 2022. Big CLA and new viewfinder seals installed August 2022!
This mechanical beast with the plain pentaprism finder should work the next 70 years."

It turned out that there were several issues. The first I noticed was a non-functioning DOF preview button.  The owners first reaction when I returned to the shop the following day: "Nobody uses the DOF preview button!"
After an exhausting exchange he finally accepted that obviously somebody do use the DOF preview and that it should work on a camera that had just been through a CLA.
The camera had to go back additionally 3 times for other issues.
In the process I did get to talk to the repair techs (there are more than one) and they seemed friendly and knowledgeable, but you don't get a direct line to them from the outset.

During the many times I visited the shop to have the above resolved, I overheard the owners communication with other customers, and every time there was a something resembling an issue, the dismissive behaviour surfaced - I got the impression he may thrive on that type of confrontative interaction when he feels he has the upper hand. 

In the end the camera was fixed to my satisfaction.

If you know what you want and know how to stand up for your rights, you can have it your way, but it is exhausting - and I can't imagine how much trouble it would have been if I didn't live almost next door to the shop. I would hate to go through all this via email and shipping back and forth.

As much as I would have loved to have a local go-to repair shop, my life is too short to repeat above experience, YMMV.

@neroin I have only good experiences w. @jerzy

Edited August 26, 2023 by nitroplait

[jaapv]

On 8/25/2023 at 8:44 PM, Anbaric said:

https://www.kamera-service.info

(website seems to be in maintenance mode right now).

Will has some health problems right now, so  repair work may take a bit longer.