Leica CL Lens Compatibility

[blackdot]

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I’m thinking of picking up a CL as a second film body, and want to verify a few things first, as I’ve read some conflicting opinions. 

Is the modern 21mm Super Elmar ok? The rear element doesn’t seem to protrude much compared to the older designs. 

Also, I have a few 35s I was thinking of using, and was thinking that loosely framing with the 40mm framelines would be ok. Opinions?

Any other issues with 35s, specifically the Asph v1 Summicron and Zeiss 2.8 C Biogon? I read on another forum that the cron won’t mount, but that seems odd. 

[dpitt]

The CL has the lowest tolerance for lenses that enter inside the mount compared to any M. Maximum clearance would be around 10mm only. This makes almost all collapsible lenses can never be collapsed when the light meter cell is out. Make sure to use those only fully extended. Exception is the 90 Macro Elmar.

There are a few lenses that have rear elements that are in this danger zone too. Like the first versions of the Super-Elmar 21. They can not be used at all.

Also, the RF mechanism will be less accurate because of the shorter distance between the RF windows. 90 mm frames are present, but I would think that using a 75 Summilux or 90 Summicron would be very much hit and miss... Any Summilux would be hard to use accurately wide open IMO.

Edited August 23, 2023 by dpitt

[blackdot]

47 minutes ago, dpitt said:

The CL has the lowest tolerance for lenses that enter inside the mount compared to any M. Maximum clearance would be around 10mm only. This makes almost all collapsible lenses can never be collapsed when the light meter cell is out. Make sure to use those only fully extended. Exception is the 90 Macro Elmar.

There are a few lenses that have rear elements that are in this danger zone too. Like the first versions of the Super-Elmar 21. They can not be used at all.

Also, the RF mechanism will be less accurate because of the shorter distance between the RF windows. 90 mm frames are present, but I would think that using a 75 Summilux or 90 Summicron would be very much hit and miss... Any Summilux would be hard to use accurately wide open IMO.

Thanks. i know the CL isn’t as accurate as my M2, but I like the idea if a slightly smaller and lighter body for social outings, etc. I also plan to make use of the hot shoe. 

My main concern is the C biogon, as that will probably be the main lens. My 21 Elmar is the later version, but if it doesn’t mount, it’s not the end if the world. The Zeiss doesn’t look especially deep. 

Edited August 23, 2023 by blackdot

[a.noctilux]

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as seen here the C Biogon 35mm seems protruding a bit.

I  can not comment on CL, never have one

about same amount as asph. Summicron 35mm

 good luck

 

Super-Elmar-M

Edited August 23, 2023 by a.noctilux

[dpitt]

I measured the nearest part of the lightmeter mechanism when the shutter is cocked. It is a bit more than 12 mm beneath the mount and on the side, so you might be OK when mounted, but it is easy to touch it while mounting or dismounting a lens. The light sensor will sit around 15 mm below the mount in the center. You never want to touch that. Also it travels all the way from the side when cocking the shutter, so the full path must be clear. The Biogons cilindrical protection of the rear lens might catch it. Just measure the Biogon ( I do not have one) and if it is going deeper than 12 mm, I would hesitate to use it. If it is more than 14 mm deep, on any area, I would definitely not even try to mount it.

[blackdot]

I’ll measure all of my lenses today. Is it possible to have the meter arm removed if the meter is dead anyway?

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42 minutes ago, dpitt said:

I measured the nearest part of the lightmeter mechanism when the shutter is cocked. It is a bit more than 12 mm beneath the mount and on the side, so you might be OK when mounted, but it is easy to touch it while mounting or dismounting a lens. The light sensor will sit around 15 mm below the mount in the center. You never want to touch that. Also it travels all the way from the side when cocking the shutter, so the full path must be clear. The Biogons cilindrical protection of the rear lens might catch it. Just measure the Biogon ( I do not have one) and if it is going deeper than 12 mm, I would hesitate to use it. If it is more than 14 mm deep, on any area, I would definitely not even try to mount it.

Ok, the rear cell of the Biogon is about 13mm. The Super Elmar is about 12, and 35 asph cron is about 12.5. When you say 12mm "on the side", do you mean out of the way of the rear cell part?

[oldwino]

I use mine with a Voigtlander 40mm f1.2, and I can focus it reliably. Of course, 40mm is more forgiving than 50mm, and certainly 90mm. 

[dpitt]

16 hours ago, blackdot said:

Ok, the rear cell of the Biogon is about 13mm. The Super Elmar is about 12, and 35 asph cron is about 12.5. When you say 12mm "on the side", do you mean out of the way of the rear cell part?

I want to say that the nearest mechanism inside the mount is on the side of the mount and below. If the protruding part is small enough in diameter it will miss it. Then the 'highest' obstacle is the light meter cel in the middle, and that is around 15mm deep. I can try a more accurate measurement when I get home tomorrow, but it will be dangerous to use any lens entering more than 14 mm in the center. If the protective barrel of the rear element is wide enough to touch the higher part of the mechanism on the side of the mount (at about 12 mm deep) then it is harder to avoid damage. When mounting or dismounting, the lens might be slightly tilted, so the sides are probably the hardest to avoid if the protective barrel is only millimeters from touching when mounted.

[dpitt]

Sorry for the delay. I promised some more accurate measurements. See the photo below. The circle around the light meter cell is around 16mm in diameter. It is quite deep,  at 21 mm and asymmetrically placed. (see measurements from the inside of the mount). The main issue is the pin on the mechanism. It is only 15mm deep.

I leave it up to you how close you dare to go. I think a few mm is a minimum for normal use. If you mount the lens once and never change it in the field, you might risk going closer.

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[blackdot]

8 hours ago, dpitt said:

Sorry for the delay. I promised some more accurate measurements. See the photo below. The circle around the light meter cell is around 16mm in diameter. It is quite deep,  at 21 mm and asymmetrically placed. (see measurements from the inside of the mount). The main issue is the pin on the mechanism. It is only 15mm deep.

I leave it up to you how close you dare to go. I think a few mm is a minimum for normal use. If you mount the lens once and never change it in the field, you might risk going closer.

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Thank you so much for the detailed response! Looks like my lenses should all be fine. 

[dpitt]

Oh. I am so sorry @blackdot . I now realize I made a crucial mistake. I used a small wooden piece to support my measuring tool in the middle of the hole. After subtracting its thickness, I see now that the cell is only a bit more than 19mm deep. I hope it makes no difference for you. This is the corrected picture.

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Edited August 27, 2023 by dpitt

[blackdot]

13 hours ago, dpitt said:

Oh. I am so sorry @blackdot . I now realize I made a crucial mistake. I used a small wooden piece to support my measuring tool in the middle of the hole. After subtracting its thickness, I see now that the cell is only a bit more than 19mm deep. I hope it makes no difference for you. This is the corrected picture.

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Thanks for the update. 19mm is still plenty of space for my Biogon. 

[David Weber]

I am searching for information how wide (diameter) a lens or lens shade can be, so that the rangefinder is still (partially) working. Or simpler does the CL rangefinder work with a Noctilux?

[a.noctilux]

25 minutes ago, David Weber said:

Or simpler does the CL rangefinder work with a Noctilux?

Simple answer : no.

However at infinity wide open or closer with aperture closed enough, I'd try without RF.

[sandro]

Be aware of the fact that the meter of the CL may loose its power over the years. Mine only works correctly in what might be called the middle segment of light. It is not reiable anymore when there is less light or when there is a lot of light. That takes away a lot of the fun of using this camera, for me at least.

Lex

[Pyrogallol]

I have 5 Leica CL film bodies. 4 came from an expert Leica repair man's personal collection. None of the meters work correctly so it is not unusual. Just treat it as you would any unmetered camera. Most of the rangefinder prisms have faded away as well, so it is like having a nice compact M bayonet Leica Standard, no meter, no rangefinder.

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[miket-nyc]

I discovered a few days ago that my late-model collapsible 50/2 BM Summicron will collapse fully on my Leica CL without coming within a quarter of an inch of the meter. However, my lens is 1349XXX, from the last batch of collapsible lenses before Leitz went to rigid lenses. I'm not promising that earlier Summicrons will do the same thing, so people should do their own tests. I have a 50/2 SM Summitar, but as this photo shows, that projects MUCH further into the body cavity when collapsed and I wouldn't trust it on the CL.

Mike Taglieri 

 

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[TomB_tx]

8 hours ago, miket-nyc said:

I discovered a few days ago that my late-model collapsible 50/2 BM Summicron will collapse fully on my Leica CL without coming within a quarter of an inch of the meter. However, my lens is 1349XXX, from the last batch of collapsible lenses before Leitz went to rigid lenses. I'm not promising that earlier Summicrons will do the same thing, so people should do their own tests. I have a 50/2 SM Summitar, but as this photo shows, that projects MUCH further into the body cavity when collapsed and I wouldn't trust it on the CL.

Mike Taglieri 

 

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Good information - thanks. If you want to use such lenses on a small film "Leica" the later Minolta CLE did away with the "meter flag" and meters off a pattern on the shutter curtain. It gives an averaging reading, so you lose the nice Spot capability of the CL, but is a very usable camera.

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