Is this possible (and would it be useful)?

[Dr. G]

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Assuming that the camera is analyzing the view and recognizing the eye in eye-AF, would it be possible for Leica to implement the same recognition for manual focus lenses?  In other words, could the camera recognize the closest eye and create the same square that turns a specific color when the eye is in critical focus?  Either that or recognize the eye and then automatically move the focus point to the eye for a magnified view with focus peaking activated.
 

It seems like the technology should allow this.  I’m not sure if users would find it useful, but it could make it quicker and easier to get focus.  
 

Or is this a feature that no one would consider beneficial?

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[jankap]

For manual focus lenses? The nearest face means, that the camera must interpret the depth structure of the subject. 

The Lytro Illum would be able to solve this. But with the design of cameras of the 50s (1954!).

Beneficial? Should the camera decide which picture to take? OK, the hype of today is synthetic intelligence (AI).

Edited July 30, 2023 by jankap

[LocalHero1953]

I'm sure it would be possible to display boxes around the eyes. They could change colour at a certain level of sharpness, but that would have the same accuracy as the focus-peaking tool i.e. inaccurate. I guess that with AF, the boxes turn green when the AF system thinks it has focused, which is a different system to focus peaking. 

As for zooming in to an eye: how does the camera know which eye among several people you want to focus on? Even the closest one can change quickly in a group photo. The view could become a bit queasy as it zoomed in and out on different eyes.

And no I wouldn't want it for manual focus. If I need tech support for focusing then I use AF. If I want a bit more control of AF, then I use back button AF.

[Photoworks]

sunds quite a bit beyond das wesentliche.

 

[frame-it]

6 hours ago, Dr. G said:

Assuming that the camera is analyzing the view and recognizing the eye in eye-AF, would it be possible for Leica to implement the same recognition for manual focus lenses?  In other words, could the camera recognize the closest eye and create the same square that turns a specific color when the eye is in critical focus?  Either that or recognize the eye and then automatically move the focus point to the eye for a magnified view with focus peaking activated.
 

It seems like the technology should allow this.  I’m not sure if users would find it useful, but it could make it quicker and easier to get focus.  
 

Or is this a feature that no one would consider beneficial?

if it was actually accurate, of course it would be beneficial with old manual focus lenses

but the camera would need a much more powerful processor, Infrared scanning light and internal software to actually process that kind of accurate data

[Dr. G]

Apparently Nikon thought this was a good idea and it's getting some praise.  Maybe we will see it in the SL3.

[jaapv]

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I was not aware that Nikon produces a rangefinder camera with 6 bit coding. 

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8 hours ago, jaapv said:

I was not aware that Nikon produces a rangefinder camera with 6 bit coding. 

We're in the SL forum, though.

[jaapv]

And talking about the use of M lenses…

[FlashGordonPhotography]

22 hours ago, jaapv said:

And talking about the ruse of M lenses…

Leica is not the only manufacturer of manual focus lenses. The Nikon Zf has some incredibly interesting technology to advance the use of manual focus lenses, mostly those from Voigtlander, which are fully Nikon compatible. It also works with Nikon AF lenses in manual focus mode. To a slightly lesser extent any adapted manual focus lens will work with the Zf and its new focus selection algorithms.

Currently the Nikon Zf has the best manual focus experience of any mirrorless camera and is a completely viable alternative to the M, if you want manual focus but don't get on with the rangefinder. It's miles ahead of what the SL2 offers. It's also quite beautiful, has spectacular IQ and great IBIS. Often on backorder due to demand.

Gordon

Edited February 4, 2024 by FlashGordonPhotography

[Planetwide]

On 2/3/2024 at 4:10 AM, jaapv said:

And talking about the use of M lenses…

On the SL, and Nikon, the M does not have AF...

Edited February 4, 2024 by Planetwide

[jaapv]

Now you tell me...🤩

[BernardC]

6 hours ago, FlashGordonPhotography said:

It's miles ahead of what the SL2 offers.

The SL2 has a viewfinder that is sharp enough to focus manually without any aids and distractions. You really can't ask for much more.

What I've seen of the Zf is that it adds a distracting overlay, annoyingly obscuring a point of interest. That's one of the reasons why I left Canon's system!

Maybe it appeals to the "first person shooter" generation (which is my generation, but I never spent much time playing Doom). I find that sort of thing to be a frustrating manual focus experience, the visual equivalent of having someone shout in your ear while you are listening to music.

Besides the annoying distraction, this style of fake-AF makes it difficult to visualize the plane of focus. There's an implicit assumption that only one spot can be "in focus," like a target in a shoot-em-up video game. Focus is a plane, and this plane can intersect your subject multiple times.

[theseus79]

Nikon has made a great success with the ZF regarding focus support for manual lenses.
I hope that the SL3 also brings something in this direction.

Otherwise, the best camera for M lenses is probably a Nikon ZF. That's why I'm currently thinking about selling my M11.

[LBJ2]

29 minutes ago, BernardC said:

The SL2 has a viewfinder that is sharp enough to focus manually without any aids and distractions. You really can't ask for much more.

What I've seen of the Zf is that it adds a distracting overlay, annoyingly obscuring a point of interest. That's one of the reasons why I left Canon's system!

Maybe it appeals to the "first person shooter" generation (which is my generation, but I never spent much time playing Doom). I find that sort of thing to be a frustrating manual focus experience, the visual equivalent of having someone shout in your ear while you are listening to music.

Besides the annoying distraction, this style of fake-AF makes it difficult to visualize the plane of focus. There's an implicit assumption that only one spot can be "in focus," like a target in a shoot-em-up video game. Focus is a plane, and this plane can intersect your subject multiple times.

Even better with the Sony 9.44M-dot EVF which allows to punch in for all the details. Nikon Zf manual focus electronic aid features are indeed a step up for electronic aid, and very interesting IMO. Personally I'd rather punch in to the details, as much clear detail as possible without any electronic graphic display in the way. 

I would ask for/hope for more "dots" in the SL3 EVF, not more graphic overlay aids. 

Edited February 4, 2024 by LBJ2

[ynp]

1 hour ago, theseus79 said:

Otherwise, the best camera for M lenses is probably a Nikon ZF

It’s not my experience. Some M lenses work well on the ZF, some of them are not terrible, almost all wide lenses are not usable. The Konica Dual works pretty well on the Nikon. 
The M camera is still the best platform for the M lenses. 🙃

[BernardC]

2 hours ago, LBJ2 said:

Even better with the Sony 9.44M-dot EVF which allows to punch in for all the details. Nikon Zf manual focus electronic aid features are indeed a step up for electronic aid, and very interesting IMO.

I'm sure Leica will use the best available EVF chip, they always have. Don't forget however that the optics between the chip and your eye play a huge role, and that's where the SL shines. There's a very visible difference between cameras that use the same chip. 

The Zf system is similar to what the Canon 5d had, with blinking lights showing a point of focus. As I mentioned, I found that very distracting, and unnecessary if you have a high-quality viewfinder. 

[Planetwide]

 

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I think that using AF to aid manual focus is a great idea. I have used the R5 with a Canon adapter to achieve very good results with my Leica R glass. Canon has a selectable AF box that you can position with the joystick and then a 3 point system that gives focus confirmation. It is fast, accurate, and much better than peaking. I am hoping for implementation of a similar type of system in the SL3.

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[Simone_DF]

3 hours ago, ynp said:

It’s not my experience. Some M lenses work well on the ZF, some of them are not terrible, almost all wide lenses are not usable. The Konica Dual works pretty well on the Nikon. 
The M camera is still the best platform for the M lenses. 🙃

Voigtlander makes native lenses optimized for the Z mount. Which also means no need for an adapter 

[Simone_DF]

35 minutes ago, Planetwide said:

I think that using AF to aid manual focus is a great idea. I have used the R5 with a Canon adapter to achieve very good results with my Leica R glass. Canon has a selectable AF box that you can position with the joystick and then a 3 point system that gives focus confirmation. It is fast, accurate, and much better than peaking. I am hoping for implementation of a similar type of system in the SL3.

 

Do lenses have to be chipped?

I reckon the Nikon works best with chipped lenses, like the Voigtlanders, or alternatively with a chipped adapter