Leica Q3 Expectations vs Reality Impressions?

[katieg]

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7 hours ago, bobtodrick said:

Nailed it.

The Q series of cameras do what they were designed for (travel, street, documentary) extremely well.

For some reason people seem to feel the Q3 should be a Holy Grail that does everything.

To further clarify my post: 

1. I never expect it to be the “holy grail” — but I do expect the specs to live up to what they promise. The Q was always meant to be an “and” camera and yes it is a fine “and” camera — that being said, when people buy into the Leica system for those hunting the forums to get an honest review of the Q3, I want them to understand it may not perform like other cameras they may be used to or the way it was marketed, hence why I have decided to throw my two cents in here with my experience so far. Especially considering some of the new features touted may not perform like other cameras they are used to, not every one has $6k to casually throw around for a camera so I want people to have a realistic expectation of what they are getting for their money, considering this may be a “B” camera. 

2. I have used Q-P, Q2, Q2m, and now this — in addition to years on an M10mono, SL2 etc, which is why I’m even commenting on this forum thread. I feel quite well versed in the ecosystem and what to expect out of the equipment. The M10m made me the photographer I am today.

3. Simply put: I was hoping for a better experience using the iAF mode with eye/face/body detection based on watching David Farkas’ experience on Red Dot Forum YT review on the Q3, but so far in my experience I find it pretty poorly executed. I’m back to single point spot focus and it behaves as quickly as the Q2, if not, better, so I’m fine using that mode with the camera. I have 4 children and 2 dogs so I think the Q3 is just extremely confused as to where to focus, so then it just focuses on the family picture hanging on the wall in the background 😄 Contrast that to when I use the Nikon Z8 which immediately locks on an eye of one of my (live) children in the frame and tracks it — that is the observation I’m making when I talk about how poorly the eye/face/body detection mode has been working for me. Perhaps if I have a single person standing statically in the frame against a blank wall, the eye/face detection probably works outstanding, but I work and look for complex layers in my frame, that is how I photograph, so I find the setting quite unsuitable for me….coupled with the fact my subjects are in constant motion. 

 

4. After a little bit more time with some files and archive rummaging against my other cameras used: ISO performance up to 3200 is great for me, once I get at, and probably more north of 6400 + for me personally, it doesn’t do it for me. But yes, WAY better than Q2 at those ISOs. I never wanted to shoot above 3200 on my Q2 as I felt the files fell apart pretty quickly without some massive help from DeNoise in Lightroom. 

 

5. I also shoot and turn the battery off when photographing, hence my annoyance with the Q3’s battery life I have experienced so far. 🤷‍♀️ That being said, I usually have two native batteries for any camera I use so it’s not a major deal — just an observation I’ve made in the week with the camera. I thought with the larger battery capacity I would be able to photograph a lot longer, but maybe that will be the case more now that I’m keeping it in single point spot autofocus mode, time will tell. Happy to have USB-C charging, especially for travel..one less bulky thing to pack, just a cord. 

 

Happy 4th of July holiday, hoping to put the Q3 through the test again over the family trip week. 

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[Mr.Q]

7 hours ago, beewee said:

No matter how good the Q cameras are, I would never recommend it as the only camera for someone unless they have a very, very, very particular use case that matches the capabilities of the Q. 

The Q is best suited as a camera that complements another system camera, whether M, SL, or both. The most fascinating thing about the Q is that, although it overlaps with a lot of the M and SL system capabilities, it doesn’t compete with either system and excels in very specific areas that neither can do at its price, size, and weight.

The way I see three camera systems is as follows:

• M - you want full control, you want to work to get that exact image you have in mind, and you enjoy every part of the process to get there.
• Q - you want something small, compact, versatile, and something that can help automate most of the decisions so you can enjoy the experience of a unique moment while capturing the memories at the highest quality possible, all the while without standing out of the crowd with a big or slow camera to capture that may disrupt the spontaneity of the moment, and most importantly, you are happy doing it with a ~26mm field of view
• SL - you want to capture something that is very technically challenging due to either the environment, lighting, or focal length requirements, and you want to do so with the highest image quality possible without lugging a giant medium format system and dealing with all the additional challenges of such a system such as limited lens choice, limited depth of field which may require focus stacking, and overall having to carry a whole lot more gear

I am the complete opposite. I consider the Q to be my main camera and I own all my other cameras to compliment the Q.

[beewee]

3 minutes ago, Mr.Q said:

I am the complete opposite. I consider the Q to be my main camera and I own all my other cameras to compliment the Q.

Complementary does not imply primary or secondary. My point was that for the vast majority of people, the Q should not be their only camera. The fact that you have other cameras to complement the Q affirms the point.

[Mr.Q]

40 minutes ago, beewee said:

Complementary does not imply primary or secondary. My point was that for the vast majority of people, the Q should not be their only camera. The fact that you have other cameras to complement the Q affirms the point.

Well for the vast majority of gear hoarders or professional photographers, yes.  For most hobbyists, it is perfectly fine as an one camera solution.  In fact, there was a time I shot with just the Q for over a year, and I only had a M10 and 35mm for a couple years as well.  If I was smarter, I'd just rent a Sony A1 + 16-35 or 70-200 for the limited times I shoot with it per year. That would make much more financial sense to be completely honest.  So to your original point, if I could only have one camera, it would be the Q.  Everything else is complimentary.

[student]

On 7/2/2023 at 7:09 AM, beewee said:

Complementary does not imply primary or secondary. My point was that for the vast majority of people, the Q should not be their only camera. The fact that you have other cameras to complement the Q affirms the point.

Just curious for your reasons for this view holding that Q3 should not be the only camera

Edited July 3, 2023 by student

[beewee]

1 hour ago, student said:

Just curious for your reasons for this view holding that Q3 should not be the only camera

How many people will be happy with shooting a 26mm, nothing wider except for panorama stitching in Lightroom, and nothing narrower except for cropping?

There are still many situations where I would still take the SL2-S with me because I can mount a 14-24mm, or 16-35mm, or 90-280mm lens, or even a 28mm APO SL on it because it achieves the perspective and/or rendering I want that I cannot get with the Q3.

Take this image for example:

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This is a crop of a 360 degree 370 MP panorama shot with the Q3 yesterday. The horizontal field of view is equivalent to a 19mm lens. Yes, I was able to stitch but I want to go back next year and capture this exact same scene during sunrise with rapidly changing light. There’s absolutely no way I can do that with the Q3.

Edited July 3, 2023 by beewee

[student]

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52 minutes ago, beewee said:

How many people will be happy with shooting a 26mm, nothing wider except for panorama stitching in Lightroom, and nothing narrower except for cropping?

There are still many situations where I would still take the SL2-S with me because I can mount a 14-24mm, or 16-35mm, or 90-280mm lens, or even a 28mm APO SL on it because it achieves the perspective and/or rendering I want that I cannot get with the Q3.

Take this image for example:

Welcome, dear visitor! As registered member you'd see an image here…

Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members!

This is a crop of a 360 degree 370 MP panorama shot with the Q3 yesterday. The horizontal field of view is equivalent to a 19mm lens. Yes, I was able to stitch but I want to go back next year and capture this exact same scene during sunrise with rapidly changing light. There’s absolutely no way I can do that with the Q3.

Thank you.   Point made

[M11 for me]

vor 2 Stunden schrieb student:

Just curious for your reasons for this view holding that Q3 should not be the only camera

For events you might need longer lenses or you might need faster AF. My events lenses are 50mm and 135mm on a Canon R5. I stoped though using zoom lenses . . .

But for many situations a Q would be fine for me. And indeed very often I go just with 28mm with either the M11 or my Q2 (Q3 ordered)

[LatestWord33]

The Leica Q system is the only camera I use. All other cameras I own are gathering dust. I took sensational wedding pictures on the weekend with my Q3. Many of the world's best street shooters use Qs exclusively. Despite all the glitches on the new Q3, I believe it is still the best camera on the market today. Hopefully firmware upgrades sort out some of the issues soon. 

[BobsFirstLeica]

2 hours ago, LatestWord33 said:

The Leica Q system is the only camera I use. All other cameras I own are gathering dust. I took sensational wedding pictures on the weekend with my Q3. Many of the world's best street shooters use Qs exclusively. Despite all the glitches on the new Q3, I believe it is still the best camera on the market today. Hopefully firmware upgrades sort out some of the issues soon. 

There is no doubt "sensational wedding pictures" can be taken with the Q3.  Having used the Q2 and Q3 now for 4 months mostly for casual and vacation, I could not use it as the sole camera for events.  Perhaps that is because I have an entire kit for that purpose....lenses, bodies, lighting, modifiers, remote triggers, etc. for Sony and Nikon.  There are many situations where I need a moderate telephoto, a zoom, a long fast prime, etc.  I suppose for a very small outside wedding with 30-50 people I could do it with one cam....maybe inside with great diffuse light.  One card slot makes me a little nervous for pro work.  On the other hand, if I am a second and can rove around, I may just use the "Q" exclusively.  Having had the Q3 in hand for only 3 weeks, it has performed without any glitches described in the forums.....lucky I suppose.  Lastly, "still the best camera on the market today?"  That is definitely debatable 😁.  One of the best for what is intended as a fixed lens, FF cam, with Leica's magic touch?  I would have to say, yes.

Bob

[student]

7 hours ago, M11 for me said:

For events you might need longer lenses or you might need faster AF. My events lenses are 50mm and 135mm on a Canon R5. I stoped though using zoom lenses . . .

But for many situations a Q would be fine for me. And indeed very often I go just with 28mm with either the M11 or my Q2 (Q3 ordered)

Thank you. To reinforce your point Cannon R5 with the compact RF 100-400 zoom as the most mobile shoulder kit is the very thing a photography shop recommended for capturing safari wildlife and mountain peaks. The shop's view was that Leica produced focal lengths for the M series stop well short of that.

[LocalHero1953]

All cameras impose restrictions. You can embrace them and improve your eye and skills in the photography that interests you and are good at, or you can succumb to GAS and buy that extra lens or body that will help you with wildlife, landscapes, portraits, events, still life, travel, street.....

FTAOD I have a SL2-S and lenses as well as a Q2, and several film cameras of different formats. I can still see the attraction, though, of giving up all except the Q2 and learning to be a real photographer (not camera owner or snapshot-taker).

[Simone_DF]

On 6/30/2023 at 4:49 AM, bobtodrick said:

Than why do I get updated notifications to my iPhone on a monthly basis to fix bugs and security issues?

Because it’s a cat and mouse game. You fix a security bug, but a new vulnerability is discovered and exploited by malicious actors, and we are back to square one. 
As for bugs, same story applies, but it’s a bit more complex. Fixing bugs goes on par with adding new features, and new features have the potential to introduce new bugs, and I can guarantee you that >90% of the time they do. So the game starts again. 
And finally, because of time constraints, only certain bugs are approved and going to get fixed in each update. 
 

Not to mention that a smartphone operating system is a magnitude more complex than a camera. It’s like comparing fixing a bicycle vs fixing a space shuttle

[ianforber]

The main reason I don’t use my Q2 exclusively is its size. If I’m travelling for business with just a small carry on backpack stuffed with clothes, shoes etc, I often can’t find room for the Q2 because of its bulk. I have an M11 for that purpose so that I can squeeze the body in somewhere with a small lens tucked away somewhere else in the bag. It’s an expensive way of doing it but I always wanted a M camera so this was my excuse to get one!

[M11 for me]

vor 1 Stunde schrieb ianforber:

The main reason I don’t use my Q2 exclusively is its size. If I’m travelling for business with just a small carry on backpack stuffed with clothes, shoes etc, I often can’t find room for the Q2 because of its bulk. I have an M11 for that purpose so that I can squeeze the body in somewhere with a small lens tucked away somewhere else in the bag. It’s an expensive way of doing it but I always wanted a M camera so this was my excuse to get one!

Wouldn't it be cheaper to buy a bigger backpack?

But no worry: I know what you are talking about. I have an M11 as well.

[student]

@mathphotographer has posted a video "NEW Leica Q3 (Part 1) Tutorial | All you need to know", and that could help square expectations with experience:  

 

[Meos]

I requested a return of my Q3 after just 3 days and have since returned it within the first week.

I had planned to use it as my travel/daily camera, and I was convinced the video would be good enough, given the specs. Despite the lack of 3.5mm and IBIS. I was wrong. 
 

The video of the Q3 was completely unusable. I have steady hands. At 4K, shooting static subjects it was simply too wobbly. Rolling shutter and the big sensor just make it terrible for video. I really hoped it would be different. 
 

Having said that, while the all-round build quality of the Q was good (I miss it already and am looking at buying a Q(P)), the leather on mine was loose at the edges and the Leica store told me "it's probably fine", but I thought it might cause issues down the line, besides being unacceptable at this price point. 

The pictures were fantastic however. I expect Leica to fix the freezing and long 'pauses' at some point.

FWIW I used Sony Tough V60 cards the entire time. I found the battery life good. 

Edited July 10, 2023 by Meos

[musers]

On 7/10/2023 at 3:14 AM, Meos said:

I requested a return of my Q3 after just 3 days and have since returned it within the first week.

I had planned to use it as my travel/daily camera, and I was convinced the video would be good enough, given the specs. Despite the lack of 3.5mm and IBIS. I was wrong. 
 

The video of the Q3 was completely unusable. I have steady hands. At 4K, shooting static subjects it was simply too wobbly. Rolling shutter and the big sensor just make it terrible for video. I really hoped it would be different. 
 

Having said that, while the all-round build quality of the Q was good (I miss it already and am looking at buying a Q(P)), the leather on mine was loose at the edges and the Leica store told me "it's probably fine", but I thought it might cause issues down the line, besides being unacceptable at this price point. 

The pictures were fantastic however. I expect Leica to fix the freezing and long 'pauses' at some point.

FWIW I used Sony Tough V60 cards the entire time. I found the battery life good. 

Tell me more about video. Are you saying handheld but not moving your feet you got jello effect and/or no stabilization in the footage? 

Edited July 12, 2023 by musers

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[NicholasT]

On 7/2/2023 at 2:46 AM, katieg said:

To further clarify my post: 

1. I never expect it to be the “holy grail” — but I do expect the specs to live up to what they promise. The Q was always meant to be an “and” camera and yes it is a fine “and” camera — that being said, when people buy into the Leica system for those hunting the forums to get an honest review of the Q3, I want them to understand it may not perform like other cameras they may be used to or the way it was marketed, hence why I have decided to throw my two cents in here with my experience so far. Especially considering some of the new features touted may not perform like other cameras they are used to, not every one has $6k to casually throw around for a camera so I want people to have a realistic expectation of what they are getting for their money, considering this may be a “B” camera. 

2. I have used Q-P, Q2, Q2m, and now this — in addition to years on an M10mono, SL2 etc, which is why I’m even commenting on this forum thread. I feel quite well versed in the ecosystem and what to expect out of the equipment. The M10m made me the photographer I am today.

3. Simply put: I was hoping for a better experience using the iAF mode with eye/face/body detection based on watching David Farkas’ experience on Red Dot Forum YT review on the Q3, but so far in my experience I find it pretty poorly executed. I’m back to single point spot focus and it behaves as quickly as the Q2, if not, better, so I’m fine using that mode with the camera. I have 4 children and 2 dogs so I think the Q3 is just extremely confused as to where to focus, so then it just focuses on the family picture hanging on the wall in the background 😄 Contrast that to when I use the Nikon Z8 which immediately locks on an eye of one of my (live) children in the frame and tracks it — that is the observation I’m making when I talk about how poorly the eye/face/body detection mode has been working for me. Perhaps if I have a single person standing statically in the frame against a blank wall, the eye/face detection probably works outstanding, but I work and look for complex layers in my frame, that is how I photograph, so I find the setting quite unsuitable for me….coupled with the fact my subjects are in constant motion. 

 

4. After a little bit more time with some files and archive rummaging against my other cameras used: ISO performance up to 3200 is great for me, once I get at, and probably more north of 6400 + for me personally, it doesn’t do it for me. But yes, WAY better than Q2 at those ISOs. I never wanted to shoot above 3200 on my Q2 as I felt the files fell apart pretty quickly without some massive help from DeNoise in Lightroom. 

 

5. I also shoot and turn the battery off when photographing, hence my annoyance with the Q3’s battery life I have experienced so far. 🤷‍♀️ That being said, I usually have two native batteries for any camera I use so it’s not a major deal — just an observation I’ve made in the week with the camera. I thought with the larger battery capacity I would be able to photograph a lot longer, but maybe that will be the case more now that I’m keeping it in single point spot autofocus mode, time will tell. Happy to have USB-C charging, especially for travel..one less bulky thing to pack, just a cord. 

 

Happy 4th of July holiday, hoping to put the Q3 through the test again over the family trip week. 

Thanks for sharing your Q3 initial impressions.

I’ve also owned the original Q (116), Q2 and now the Q3 and most recent M and SL cameras ( M-10, M-11, SL & SL2 )

I agree with your point #4 regarding ISO. About 1 stop better than Q2 but personally, I prefer not to go much beyond ISO 6400.

Also, agree with #5 regarding battery life but like you, I’m not much bothered by it, because I generally carry an extra battery and Q3 has many options for recharging ( USB-C, Leica Grip)

My biggest disappointment so far has been the start-up time. Q3 seems to take an eternity to turn on, to the point where when I’m out shooting I keep the camera on at all times. I let it time out to preset interval and press the shutter to wake the camera when I want to shoot. This process seems to take a fraction of the time. Also haven’t seen much of a difference in battery consumption versus turning off the camera after every photo sequence.

The feedback I found surprising was point #3 i.e. your disappointment with eye/face/body detection and IAF.

I’ve had the exact opposite experience and one that closely aligns with what David Farkas reported of Red Dot Forum. I find the eye/face/body detection results to be outstanding and far better than the Q2, which was and continues to be an outstanding camera in every other respect. I find the people detection performance to be better than SL2 as well. I haven’t owned the SL2-S so can’t comment on how it compares with that camera.

Below I post a few “test” shots followed by 100% magnification. All photos were taken from the hip, completely impromptu, with little preparation and while walking.

These results meet and exceed my expectations. I consider the AF improvements in Q3 to be the single biggest software improvement. 

I find that the flip screen is the biggest hardware improvement versus Q2. I do agree with the often-mentioned comment that the flip screen has negatively impacted the rear look of the camera. That said, I see the improvement in being able to more easily shoot from challenging vantage points (high and low) as more than worth the modest sacrifice of the clean lines of the original Q and the Q2.

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Edited July 12, 2023 by NicholasT

[NicholasT]

 

 

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Edited July 12, 2023 by NicholasT