M11 Motion blur is driving me crazy(!)

[wijsbroek]

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Hi everyone, 

Photography has been my love for over 30 years now. I've owned a lot of camera's (film and digital). I recently switched from medium format Fujifilm (GFX-50r, which was big and heavy like a brick) to Leica M11. A dream came true. I love everything about the camera except two things. First is dust on the sensor. I only use one lens and never take it of. Still there's more and more dust on the sensor over time. Is this normal? Isn't the camera sealed?

But my GREAT problem is... motion blur. I've never experienced it this way. I know it's said to be a resolution thing, but coming from 50MP medium format, I was quite used to high resolution and never experienced these kind of problems.

I'm using a new Summilux 35/1.4 (not the newest, close range focussing version, but the previous). I'm having most problems shooting (almost) wide open. It's nearly impossible to take a non-motion-blurred shot. It's not focussing, That looks okay from a distance. But zooming in... everything has motion blur (or something else?). Even at 1/6500s...

Of course I have been practising a lot with the M11. Please look at this test shot. Looks okay, but then... when you zoom in... I know, I know this is an extreme close-up, but still I was used to a quite sharp (motion free) part of the picture, using bij GFX camera. I do not pixel peep at all!

I really hope someone can give me the golden tip. It's driving me crazy and I'm thinking about selling my dream camera. This really makes me sad.

Leica M11
ISO 64
1/6500s
F/1.4
Processed in Capture one (used Light too, no difference).

Thank you in advance!

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[jaapv]

It is a question of magnification. The motion blur was alway there but if you go to 100% on a lower resolution camera you cannot see it as the camera cannot resolve it. If you go to 100% on a high resolution camera you are enlarging to an insane size and you will see that the camera can show it.
Only three solutions: disregard and make your prints at your usual size, refine your technique for holding the camera steady including using higher shutter speeds, or use an AI sharpening app like Topaz Sharpen AI. Or do not buy a high-resolution camera. They are well known for this complaint. 

[Viv]

Motion blur? There are no moving objects in the shots you posted.

Do you mean camera shake? Or inaccurate focusing?

[frame-it]

9 minutes ago, Viv said:

Motion blur? There are no moving objects in the shots you posted.

Do you mean camera shake? Or inaccurate focusing?

im guessing its inaccurate focusing at F1.4, as the OP wrote

ISO 64
1/6500s
F/1.4

 

though why one would zoom in to look at something at the bottom of the image is confusing

Edited May 12, 2023 by frame-it

[wijsbroek]

31 minutes ago, Viv said:

Motion blur? There are no moving objects in the shots you posted.

Do you mean camera shake? Or inaccurate focusing?

Maybe the correct term is camera shake. Sorry, English is not my language. 
 

[wijsbroek]

23 minutes ago, frame-it said:

im guessing its inaccurate focusing at F1.4, as the OP wrote

ISO 64
1/6500s
F/1.4

 

though why one would zoom in to look at something at the bottom of the image is confusing

No, it’s not inaccurate focussing. Zoomed out it’s nicely focussed on the arrow. Zoomed in, there’s camera shake (or something?). Nothing is sharper.  I tested this intensively. 

[wijsbroek]

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49 minutes ago, jaapv said:

It is a question of magnification. The motion blur was alway there but if you go to 100% on a lower resolution camera you cannot see it as the camera cannot resolve it. If you go to 100% on a high resolution camera you are enlarging to an insane size and you will see that the camera can shown it.
Only three solutions: disregard and make your prints at your usual size, refine your technique for holding the camera steady including using higher shutter speeds, or use an AI sharpening app like Topaz Sharpen AI. Or do not buy a high-resolution camera. They are well known for this complaint. 

I was used to my GFX 50MP camera. Never had this complaints.  I guess it’s the f/1.4, but I don’t understand why….

[frame-it]

8 minutes ago, wijsbroek said:

 I guess it’s the f/1.4, but I don’t understand why….

that's what i meant, at f1.4 even leaning forward or back a tiny bit will lead to something out of focus.

[DBounce]

All I see in the image posted is the focal fall off from the shallow dof.
Motion blur moves in one direction and would effect the entire image since the only thing that could be moving in that shot is the actual camera.

 Want to get rid of it? Stop down the lens.

[jaapv]

No, the f1.4 has to do with depth of focus, not with camera shake.
It is quite possible that you held your GFX differently and more steadily. Additionally the GFX has a larger pixel size, which will influence the motion/shake visibility.  The only remedies for camera shake are the ones I mentioned.

[wijsbroek]

1 hour ago, frame-it said:

that's what i meant, at f1.4 even leaning forward or back a tiny bit will lead to something out of focus.

I Understand, but in that case, another point should be in focus. But there isn't. 

[wijsbroek]

1 hour ago, DBounce said:

All I see in the image posted is the focal fall off from the shallow dof.
Motion blur moves in one direction and would effect the entire image since the only thing that could be moving in that shot is the actual camera.

 Want to get rid of it? Stop down the lens.

I've stopped down the lens in most photos. I usually use f/5.6, there's no problem in that case. But sometimes you want to go for that shallow focus. 

[wijsbroek]

1 hour ago, jaapv said:

No, the f1.4 has to do with depth of focus, not with camera shake.
It is quite possible that you held your GFX differently and more steadily. Additionally the GFX has a larger pixel size, which will influence the motion/shake visibility.  The only remedies for camera shake are the ones I mentioned.

I've been thinking about bigger pixels too. I'm quite sure it's not off focus. I've used the EVF too, that's pretty acurate. It just can't be camera shake, since it's been taken @1/6500s. 

 

[frame-it]

shutter shock?

 

[jaapv]

Quite possible. Has the M11 Electronic Shutter?

[rustyrus]

Excuse my skepticism here but you had 5-8K worth of Fuji medium format gear. You are now using 12K plus with the M11/35 Lux. 

 

Your first post on this forum is showing a parking lot and you focused on an arrow? I wish you the best of luck but just not buying it man.

[wijsbroek]

16 minutes ago, rustyrus said:

Excuse my skepticism here but you had 5-8K worth of Fuji medium format gear. You are now using 12K plus with the M11/35 Lux. 

 

Your first post on this forum is showing a parking lot and you focused on an arrow? I wish you the best of luck but just not buying it man.

Ohhh I'm so sorry, I did not know I had to post brilliant photos first before I could show a TEST shot. 

But thanks so much for your constructive help! Enjoy your day.🤐

[LanceR]

How did you focus on the arrow?  Did you use LiveView or the Rangefinder?  With that shallow DoF, if you focussed using the rangefinder and then recomposed, you have significantly shifted the plane of focus.  That would just make it a focus miss rather than camera shake.

This is something I needed to adjust in my picture taking when I came from Fuji.  With autofocus, I was not recomposing as much between focus and shutter.

 

Do you get the same result when you focus with both LiveView and the Rangefinder?

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[wijsbroek]

32 minutes ago, jaapv said:

Quite possible. Has the M11 Electronic Shutter?

Yes it does. This shot was taken with the electronic shutter, since the mechanical shutter is maxed at 1/4000s.

[wijsbroek]

3 minutes ago, LanceR said:

How did you focus on the arrow?  Did you use LiveView or the Rangefinder?  With that shallow DoF, if you focussed using the rangefinder and then recomposed, you have significantly shifted the plane of focus.  That would just make it a focus miss rather than camera shake.

This is something I needed to adjust in my picture taking when I came from Fuji.  With autofocus, I was not recomposing as much between focus and shutter.

 

Do you get the same result when you focus with both LiveView and the Rangefinder?

Good point, but I used the EVF, so no recomposing. Further, another point should be pin sharp then, there's none (when zooming in).