LBJ2 Posted May 16, 2023 Share #21 Posted May 16, 2023 Advertisement (gone after registration) 4 hours ago, adan said: One additional feature of a flippable screen (properly implemented - flip and rotate) is that it would make it possible to turn any future M digital into a "-D" version, by hiding the LCD. Epson's R-D1 digital rangefinder (as lct can tell us) offered that 19 years ago (along with a manual cocking lever that actually cocked the shutter!). https://www.dpreview.com/articles/1924025521/epsonrd1 However, that would remove the option for Leica to produce and offer "-D" cameras later - at a significant price premium. "One additional feature of a flippable screen (properly implemented - flip and rotate) is that it would make it possible to turn any future M digital into a "-D" version, by hiding the LCD." The same idea came to me when I first flipped the new Sony A7rV flip screen around to what I call the Sony A7rV-D mode--same could be so for a rangefinder with as you wrote a properly implemented flip and rotate screen. FWIW this new design on the Sony A7rIV is pretty much marvelous as far as camera flip-swivel screens are concerned. Very well designed and implemented IMO. Welcome, dear visitor! As registered member you'd see an image here… Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! ' data-webShareUrl='https://www.l-camera-forum.com/topic/376423-flip-it/?do=findComment&comment=4772524'>More sharing options...
Advertisement Posted May 16, 2023 Posted May 16, 2023 Hi LBJ2, Take a look here Flip it!. I'm sure you'll find what you were looking for!
FlashGordonPhotography Posted May 16, 2023 Share #22 Posted May 16, 2023 6 hours ago, pippy said: Fixed!............ Carry On! P. I have had dozens of floppy screen cameras. Never damaged one yet. I don’t know any one that has, either. Is this actually a thing or just some BS sprouted by curmudgeons or clumsy hands? Personally I only want a floppy screen if they can implement it so that the body stays the same size. And if they can do that I’d rather have IBIS first with the miracle extra space they find. To me the solution is a small physical tether to my phone rather than wifi and a well designed phone/hotshoe mount. Get rid of the lag and the phone is a great solution. Maybe even an iPad mini. For now (and for all tripod use) I use and prefer the tilting EVF. I wish I could do that on my SL2. Gordon 2 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
david strachan Posted May 16, 2023 Share #23 Posted May 16, 2023 (edited) I've bought cameras, many because of flippy screen...Canons, fuji etc. I love'em. I put up with Leica, without a flippy, because, well I love 'em too. Can't see it on an M camera...just not Leica...they still like to make it basic, raw, sometimes difficult photography...you have to work to get a Leica image that's any good. For me that's part of the charm. ... Edited May 16, 2023 by david strachan It's a secret Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
david strachan Posted May 16, 2023 Share #24 Posted May 16, 2023 29 minutes ago, FlashGordonPhotography said: I have had dozens of floppy screen cameras. Never damaged one yet. I don’t know any one that has, either. Is this actually a thing or just some BS sprouted by curmudgeons or clumsy hands? Personally I only want a floppy screen if they can implement it so that the body stays the same size. .. Gordon I've seen that hoary old chestnut so many times "...oh, they're easily damaged..". A complete myth. Like Gordon I've never heard of such problems. The screen and hinge is very robust. ... 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
pippy Posted May 16, 2023 Share #25 Posted May 16, 2023 (edited) 7 hours ago, FlashGordonPhotography said: I have had dozens of floppy screen cameras. Never damaged one yet. I don’t know any one that has, either. Is this actually a thing or just some BS sprouted by curmudgeons or clumsy hands?... Pardon me for having been abtruse in my post, Gordon. The possibility of a rear screen becoming broken in use wasn't even remotely connected to my light-hearted comment which was wholly to do with the quirky nature of the 'D' cameras but it hardly matters and is certainly not important. Philip. Edited May 16, 2023 by pippy Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
250swb Posted May 16, 2023 Share #26 Posted May 16, 2023 Given I think M cameras can do more than simply channelling the inner-Bresson I'd love to see a flipping screen, so Leica flipping well get on with it. 1 1 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ouroboros Posted May 16, 2023 Share #27 Posted May 16, 2023 Advertisement (gone after registration) As long as it flips in both orientations, yes. Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
pippy Posted May 16, 2023 Share #28 Posted May 16, 2023 Just now, 250swb said: Given I think M cameras can do more than simply channelling the inner-Bresson I'd love to see a flipping screen, so Leica flipping well get on with it. I agree. I've used cameras with such a feature and can, therefore, definitely see the advantage offered by its inclusion. If a Leica M is going to have a screen then why not one which flips and rotates? Incidentally going back to Andy's point about SLRs with removable pentaprisms; in the Old Days I, too, used Nikon F / F2 cameras without the prism in certain circumstances and found the possibility to be VERY useful. Philip. Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Erato Posted May 16, 2023 Share #29 Posted May 16, 2023 (edited) Be ware that they'll drag you down to their level so that they can beat you by selling obsolete component(assembly) to your customers and letting your team stuck in some level of never ending firmware issues. CONTAX eventually fades out while after they reached the benchmark of leading edge product lines. History repeat itself again and again. Edited May 16, 2023 by Erato Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
charlesphoto99 Posted May 16, 2023 Share #30 Posted May 16, 2023 13 hours ago, LBJ2 said: "One additional feature of a flippable screen (properly implemented - flip and rotate) is that it would make it possible to turn any future M digital into a "-D" version, by hiding the LCD." The same idea came to me when I first flipped the new Sony A7rV flip screen around to what I call the Sony A7rV-D mode--same could be so for a rangefinder with as you wrote a properly implemented flip and rotate screen. FWIW this new design on the Sony A7rIV is pretty much marvelous as far as camera flip-swivel screens are concerned. Very well designed and implemented IMO. Welcome, dear visitor! As registered member you'd see an image here… Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! I can see the possibility of a flip screen on an M, but if it looks anything like that, the pitchforks will be out. Great working camera I’m sure, but that hinge! Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ko.Fe. Posted May 16, 2023 Share #31 Posted May 16, 2023 Fully articulated screen. I owned camera with it once. Flipped it into camera body on day one. Best screen is no screen Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
LBJ2 Posted May 16, 2023 Share #32 Posted May 16, 2023 1 hour ago, charlesphoto99 said: I can see the possibility of a flip screen on an M, but if it looks anything like that, the pitchforks will be out. Great working camera I’m sure, but that hinge! I don't think anyone ever accused Sony mirrorless cameras of being "good looking" or "nice to look at" etc. I'd say more along the lines of utilitarian. AKA gets the job done and that new flip/swivel screen is one of the best, most practical such designs I've seen. But then again not many cameras compare to the beauty of the current Leica M10 form-factor IMO. FWIW, I am just fine with the svelte M10 form factor as is. In fact I like the M10 form factor very much and don't mind the fixed screen either. As I wrote, plenty flexible screen alternatives already exists for the relatively few times I need more flexibility when using the rangefinder. Personally I expect to see some sort of new screen swivel and/or flip come to the Q and SL lines long before we see such a thing on a rangefinder, if ever. 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
LBJ2 Posted May 16, 2023 Share #33 Posted May 16, 2023 (edited) 58 minutes ago, Ko.Fe. said: Fully articulated screen. I owned camera with it once. Flipped it into camera body on day one. Best screen is no screen Exactly. These things can be designed to be used, forgotten or something in-between. The tilt screen on the Sony A1 fits flush to the back of the camera hardly noticeable it is a flip screen as there is no visible hinge. This type of title screen design might be more compatible with the M10 form factor. But no hinge means it can't be positioned into Leica "-D" mode or "forgotten mode" Welcome, dear visitor! As registered member you'd see an image here… Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! Edited May 16, 2023 by LBJ2 Quote Link to post Share on other sites Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! ' data-webShareUrl='https://www.l-camera-forum.com/topic/376423-flip-it/?do=findComment&comment=4772994'>More sharing options...
Kwesi Posted May 16, 2023 Share #34 Posted May 16, 2023 I am firmly in the camp of "a flippy screen on an M will kill the M." I mean I know there are a lot of these origami looking cameras out there but on an M? really? 🤨 1 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
250swb Posted May 16, 2023 Share #35 Posted May 16, 2023 5 hours ago, Kwesi said: I am firmly in the camp of "a flippy screen on an M will kill the M." I mean I know there are a lot of these origami looking cameras out there but on an M? really? 🤨 I'm sure people expressed a similar sentiment when Leica introduced the M3, and the M9. In the meantime the world moves on and spending nearly £8000 on the pure experience of man and machine in perfect harmony with the M11 (auto exposure, auto ISO, Geotagging, software that makes sense of distortion and colour, and a battery) makes perfect sense if you want to play the 'don't touch my unadulterated experience' tag line, not. The only people playing that game legitimately are film users. 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kwesi Posted May 16, 2023 Share #36 Posted May 16, 2023 13 minutes ago, 250swb said: I'm sure people expressed a similar sentiment when Leica introduced the M3, and the M9. In the meantime the world moves on and spending nearly £8000 on the pure experience of man and machine in perfect harmony with the M11 (auto exposure, auto ISO, Geotagging, software that makes sense of distortion and colour, and a battery) makes perfect sense if you want to play the 'don't touch my unadulterated experience' tag line, not. The only people playing that game legitimately are film users. im no luddite, my friend, if was I wouldn't own both an M3 and an M11. I just think running around town holding an M at arms length looking at some floppy screen is sheer foolishness. Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
adan Posted May 17, 2023 Share #37 Posted May 17, 2023 20 hours ago, Kwesi said: I just think running around town holding an M at arms length looking at some floppy screen is sheer foolishness. Possibly - but people can do that right now with the non-flippable LCD and regular live-view. If anything, a flippable screen for waist-level viewing would reduce the need for "arm's length" Frankenstein-monster-pose viewing. Keep the camera close your belt and just glance down when needed. Was it "sheer foolishness" for Leica to provide TTL viewing for their rangefinder cameras, under some conditions, with the original Visoflex (which predates your M3 by 20 years or so, in LTM form) or the later ones in M mount. https://wiki.l-camera-forum.com/leica-wiki.en/index.php/Ploot Or to provide for mounting a Barnack or M camera on a microscope, or telescope, or copy stand? Or even leave out the RF/VF altogether (M1, MD, MDa)? Or provide other right-angle viewfinders, such as the AUFSU? Welcome, dear visitor! As registered member you'd see an image here… Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! Are you a Luddite? - no. Is your perception of M/rangefinder photography perhaps a bit - umm - narrow and limited, compared to other photographers? What do you think? 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! Are you a Luddite? - no. Is your perception of M/rangefinder photography perhaps a bit - umm - narrow and limited, compared to other photographers? What do you think? ' data-webShareUrl='https://www.l-camera-forum.com/topic/376423-flip-it/?do=findComment&comment=4773998'>More sharing options...
evikne Posted May 17, 2023 Share #38 Posted May 17, 2023 On 5/16/2023 at 2:07 AM, LBJ2 said: "One additional feature of a flippable screen (properly implemented - flip and rotate) is that it would make it possible to turn any future M digital into a "-D" version, by hiding the LCD." If it's possible to camouflage the flip screen as the back door of an analog M, then why not? Welcome, dear visitor! As registered member you'd see an image here… Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! ' data-webShareUrl='https://www.l-camera-forum.com/topic/376423-flip-it/?do=findComment&comment=4774032'>More sharing options...
GRBrown Posted May 17, 2023 Share #39 Posted May 17, 2023 50 minutes ago, adan said: ..."arm's length" Frankenstein-monster-pose viewing... Austin, Texas, photographer Kirk Tuck calls that viewing method the "stink- baby-diaper hold." He uses Leicas for much of his work. 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kwesi Posted May 18, 2023 Share #40 Posted May 18, 2023 15 hours ago, adan said: Is your perception of M/rangefinder photography perhaps a bit - umm - narrow and limited, compared to other photographers? What do you think? Perhaps😇 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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