Small 35mm with pleasing bokeh for busy backgrounds?

[Keith (M)]

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Two 'bokeh' examples of the 35mm Nokton III f1.2 @ f1.2, first with M10M, the second with M11 (as ever, click for higher resolution versions).  The lens weighs circa 330g and takes 52mm filters as opposed to the Nokton Classic f1.4's 190g and 43mm filter thread.  I enjoy using both of them such that my '67 Summaron f2.8 and Biogon f2 have slipped down the preference list.

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[dpitt]

2 hours ago, Casey Jefferson said:

Funny that I just bought a Q2 alongside my 35mm summicron asph v1. The initial excitement didn't last that long that the lens render rather flat in comparison in terms of bokeh. It has, however, tremendous pop to the images without the help of blurry background, but in a very clinical way. 

I find that the Q2 lens didn't render in a way that the bokeh separate from the subject, where the 35 summicron does a lot better. 

Mind you, the 35 summicron has more structured/busy bokeh than the Q2, as much as I loved a smooth bokeh, I've come to appreciate that certain Leica lenses are just special, it's busy yet very pleasing and not distracting. Can't say that same for FLE judging from many photos. Hard to put it in words.

All pre-ASPH Summicron 35 have smoother bokeh and less contrast while maintaining the 3D pop compared to the ASPH variants.

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[tedd]

I currently have a 35mm Summarit f2.5 and a 50mm Lux ASPH. 

I sometimes lust for a Lux FLE to "better match" my 50mm, but the Summarit is such a little ripper of a lens that I don't think I could let it go even if I did get a Lux! The bokeh has never disappointed me and it has a look that I really like. It's not clinical, nor romantic either, but somewhere in the middle. And infinitely more to my taste than the Zeiss lenses I have owned, including the f2 35mm (bought twice), which I found to have a really messy OOF rendition.

It's definitely worth looking into if you can live with owning Leica's "cheap/worst/toy" lens range.

[bashrc]

+1 for the 35 Summarit

[Casey Jefferson]

21 hours ago, Keith (M) said:

Two 'bokeh' examples of the 35mm Nokton III f1.2 @ f1.2, first with M10M, the second with M11 (as ever, click for higher resolution versions).  The lens weighs circa 330g and takes 52mm filters as opposed to the Nokton Classic f1.4's 190g and 43mm filter thread.  I enjoy using both of them such that my '67 Summaron f2.8 and Biogon f2 have slipped down the preference list.

 

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Not quite the same composition but you can tell the 35mm Summicron ASPH below has structured/textured bokeh, yet it's not distracting, smooth but with character. Stopping down to f2.8 (with reasonable close range) actually smooth the bokeh further.

 

[JoshuaRothman]

25 minutes ago, Casey Jefferson said:

Not quite the same composition but you can tell the 35mm Summicron ASPH below has structured/textured bokeh, yet it's not distracting, smooth but with character. Stopping down to f2.8 (with reasonable close range) actually smooth the bokeh further.

 

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This is really encouraging and makes me think I should clear out some gear to afford a Summicron!

[Photomek]

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I love my Summicron-M 2/35 v6 very much. It's small, light, sharp, ergonomically perfect and great for environmental portraits. And it is perfectly usable wide open.

Edited March 21, 2023 by Photomek

[oldwino]

I'll go a little outside-the-box and recommend the Voigtlander Nokton 40 f1.2.  It works perfectly well with the 35 frame lines. 

[Nimar]

2 hours ago, oldwino said:

I'll go a little outside-the-box and recommend the Voigtlander Nokton 40 f1.2.  It works perfectly well with the 35 frame lines. 

Doesn’t look small.  Not valuable information but I quiet like the 2/35 Ultron. Owned a v5 summicron for a day but sent it back. Kept the 2/35 VM APO and VM Ultron for when I want perfection or small. 

The VM APO is big but not heavy so don’t mind carrying all day, just doesn’t go under a jacket as neatly as the ultron. 

Edited March 21, 2023 by Nimar

[Bikie John]

19 hours ago, oldwino said:

I'll go a little outside-the-box and recommend the Voigtlander Nokton 40 f1.2.  It works perfectly well with the 35 frame lines. 

It is a lovely lens (I've got a couple of shots with it on the M10 Monochrom photos thread) but as @Nimar says it is not small.

John

[JoshuaRothman]

Has anyone in here tried the new CV 35 f/1.5? It looks like the out of focus rendering is quite smooth. And f/1.5 might help.

[newtoleica]

On 3/20/2023 at 3:33 PM, Casey Jefferson said:

Funny that I just bought a Q2 alongside my 35mm summicron asph v1. The initial excitement didn't last that long that the lens render rather flat in comparison in terms of bokeh. It has, however, tremendous pop to the images without the help of blurry background, but in a very clinical way. 

I find that the Q2 lens didn't render in a way that the bokeh separate from the subject, where the 35 summicron does a lot better. 

Mind you, the 35 summicron has more structured/busy bokeh than the Q2, as much as I loved a smooth bokeh, I've come to appreciate that certain Leica lenses are just special, it's busy yet very pleasing and not distracting. Can't say that same for FLE judging from many photos. Hard to put it in words.

Rendering is very subjective. Hard to put in words, but generally double lined edges and overlapping hard edged rings make for a distracting background. It depends on the lens, the relative distances, the chosen aperture, the lighting and the subject. Learning a lens is all about having an idea what works and what doesn't for your taste. Some older zoom lenses always give distracting bokeh, but almost all M mount lenses are potentially good. Often the more 'characterful' M mount lenses can be tricky under certain conditions.

[Casey Jefferson]

52 minutes ago, JoshuaRothman said:

Has anyone in here tried the new CV 35 f/1.5? It looks like the out of focus rendering is quite smooth. And f/1.5 might help.

It's smoother than the 35 summicron as far as I can tell, but I feel it's a little boring judging from sample images, but if you don't mind then it's another great (and much cheaper) alternative.

38 minutes ago, newtoleica said:

Rendering is very subjective. Hard to put in words, but generally double lined edges and overlapping hard edged rings make for a distracting background. It depends on the lens, the relative distances, the chosen aperture, the lighting and the subject. Learning a lens is all about having an idea what works and what doesn't for your taste. Some older zoom lenses always give distracting bokeh, but almost all M mount lenses are potentially good. Often the more 'characterful' M mount lenses can be tricky under certain conditions.

I provided samples above which you can look at. The Q2 has similar character bokeh towards the edges and corners, but cleaner in the center, which is certainly smooth but the subject didn't quite pop the same way like the 35mm summicron, particularly mid and slightly farther distances. Hard to put in words, I now appreciate slightly textured bokeh than buttery smooth but admittedly the Q2 certainly anything but bad. The FLE for example in comparison I feel they're harsher in certain lighting and angle.

Edited March 22, 2023 by Casey Jefferson

[newtoleica]

2 hours ago, Casey Jefferson said:

It's smoother than the 35 summicron as far as I can tell, but I feel it's a little boring judging from sample images, but if you don't mind then it's another great (and much cheaper) alternative.

I provided samples above which you can look at. The Q2 has similar character bokeh towards the edges and corners, but cleaner in the center, which is certainly smooth but the subject didn't quite pop the same way like the 35mm summicron, particularly mid and slightly farther distances. Hard to put in words, I now appreciate slightly textured bokeh than buttery smooth but admittedly the Q2 certainly anything but bad. The FLE for example in comparison I feel they're harsher in certain lighting and angle.

Agree not a fan of the 35 FLE for this reason. The V2 looks better, but too expensive for me. I use the 35 ASPH pre-FLE.

 

[oldwino]

21 hours ago, Nimar said:

Doesn’t look small.

 

4 hours ago, Bikie John said:

It is a lovely lens (I've got a couple of shots with it on the M10 Monochrom photos thread) but as @Nimar says it is not small.

John

What's the saying? A lens can be cheap, fast, or small...but only two of these at one time.

Edited March 22, 2023 by oldwino

[hdmesa]

7 hours ago, JoshuaRothman said:

Has anyone in here tried the new CV 35 f/1.5? It looks like the out of focus rendering is quite smooth. And f/1.5 might help.

https://www.fredmiranda.com/forum/topic/1784972

Small. Incredibly light if you get the non-brass version. Wonderful build quality and ergonomics.

Notes from having used it for only a little while so far:

• At f/1.5, it's best to keep the subject close to the center. By 2.8, off-center improves, and by f/4, I can put the focus point anywhere with confidence.
• Veiling flare is strong with the sun anywhere near the edge of the frame.
• Stopped down to 5.6-8 at infinity is sharp across the frame.

 

[the eye of the deer]

my 35mm travel lens is the CV 35mm f2.5 Color Skopar. Small, light, sharp and inexpensive. But how the forest behind your family looks with it, I can not say, only you can try...my 5 cents...

 

AHOI

Steven

[ianforber]

On 3/22/2023 at 6:11 PM, hdmesa said:

https://www.fredmiranda.com/forum/topic/1784972

Small. Incredibly light if you get the non-brass version. Wonderful build quality and ergonomics.

Notes from having used it for only a little while so far:

• At f/1.5, it's best to keep the subject close to the center. By 2.8, off-center improves, and by f/4, I can put the focus point anywhere with confidence.
• Veiling flare is strong with the sun anywhere near the edge of the frame.
• Stopped down to 5.6-8 at infinity is sharp across the frame.

 

Quite agree. Here’s a portrait with the subject placed centrally and subsequently cropped.  Not a busy background but shows the sort of thing you can get. 
 

 

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[raizans]

On 3/21/2023 at 6:39 AM, Casey Jefferson said:

Not quite the same composition but you can tell the 35mm Summicron ASPH below has structured/textured bokeh, yet it's not distracting, smooth but with character. Stopping down to f2.8 (with reasonable close range) actually smooth the bokeh further.

 

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THIS! Stop down about two stops to get smooth bokeh with almost every fast (f/2 or faster) 35mm lens (the bokeh is most likely harsh on challenging backgrounds). Make sure the aperture blades are rounded at those stops.

Edited March 24, 2023 by raizans

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Hallo,

Look here: Leica M

[Stuart Richardson]

You may not find it easily, but I think the 35mm UC Hexanon is a great lens for what you are describing. It is based on the lens in the Hexar AF. Or honestly, even the Hexar AF itself, which for the whole camera is cheaper than a Leica lens. Despite owning two M cameras and a number of lenses, I grudgingly admit to myself that I take usually better photos with the Hexar AF than I do with the Leica Ms.

Here are four with the Hexar AF, which as I said, is quite similar to the UC Hexanon. You can find Hexars for under 600 dollars still if you look. They are phenomenal cameras, though a bit of a ticking time bomb at this point, unfortunately.

 

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