SL3 Rumors

[Ken Abrahams]

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Will PDAF Phase Detection make accurate focus selections especially on the 90-280 VE APO? 

Ken

 

 

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[SJH]

3 hours ago, Ken Abrahams said:

Will PDAF Phase Detection make accurate focus selections especially on the 90-280 VE APO? 

Ken

 

 

In theory yes but the whilst the camera will have this many of the SL lenses we're on the drawing board some time ago, so I wonder just how well they'll perform e.g. the 24-90, 90-280 etc. The latest non-APO's should be fine as well as the latest Sigma DG DN's. If you look at Canon, Nikon, Sony etc they've had to bring out new lenses to have sufficient AF performance to work with the new PDAF tech e.g. Sony is updating most of it's GM line now even those those lenses are as old or newer than say the 24-90 SL.

[Simone_DF]

Hard pass for me. Still too heavy, and I don’t like the 60mp sensor. 
I’ll just wait for the right offer to switch to a S5II. 

[BernardC]

28 minutes ago, SJH said:

In theory yes but the whilst the camera will have this many of the SL lenses we're on the drawing board some time ago, so I wonder just how well they'll perform e.g. the 24-90, 90-280 etc. The latest non-APO's should be fine as well as the latest Sigma DG DN's. If you look at Canon, Nikon, Sony etc they've had to bring out new lenses to have sufficient AF performance to work with the new PDAF tech e.g. Sony is updating most of it's GM line now even those those lenses are as old or newer than say the 24-90 SL.

It's the opposite: PDAF is less accurate, but faster. Most cameras switch to CDAF once PDAF has done the rough focus. Of course, that's not possible during burst shooting, but those sorts of shots are generally less focus-sensitive (close is good enough).

Leica designed all of the SL lenses for fast focus from the start, with the possible exception of the Summilux. They all have low-inertia focusing groups, and high-end motors.

[LBJ2]

5 hours ago, helged said:

Apparently the same EVF as SL2. 69 g reduced weight compared to SL2, giving some support to somewhat reduced size. Using the new Q3 (and SL2 compatible) battery BP-SCL6. Max fps with mechanical and electronic shutter still unknown. Likewise unknown readout time (of relevance for the applicability of the electronic shutter, eg https://www.pix-pro.com/blog/shutter). 

Second rumor with SL3 CFExpress. This latest rumor more specifically Type B, a good thing IMO. No rumors yet about internal memory. I do hope internal memory becomes a reality on the SL3, but not one rumor...yet.

Thank you for posting the electronic shutter reference. I think it's a good introduction and illustration. I found the statement  "Sensor readout speed below 17 milliseconds is generally reasonable" helpful as I've often wondered what the cut-off might be. I don't expect stacked sensor in this coming SL3, so very curious to see what Leica/Panasonic can do in this regard to improve upon the SL2's sensor scan/readout speed.

[padam]

It is good that the price won't increase, while weight is going to decrease.
But it is still hard to look away from the fact that it's disappointing to see a 2019 sensor in a 2024 camera.
(Funnily enough, the S1R/SL2 sensor is also from 2019)

[Stuart Richardson]

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Ultimately we are going to need to see what the camera is actually like before we make any hard conclusions, but would agree that the spec comparison would not be enough to induce me to upgrade. I would point out that the SL VF was also the same resolution as the SL2 and the SL2 VF looked a lot better to me at least. Leica colors have also been pretty variable to me across sensor generations and bodies, so even if one does not love the M colors, they might like the SL ones even if it is the same sensor family. 
In any case, I guess we will see! I hope it impresses with more than the specs….it has to carry us another 4-5 years most likely. 

Edited February 13, 2024 by Stuart Richardson

[MediaFotografie]

vor 3 Minuten schrieb Stuart Richardson:

 I would point out that the SL VF was also the same resolution as the SL2 and the SL2 VF looked a lot better to me at least. 

Stuart, you mean SL 601 VF? This has only 4,4MP resolution; it was a good VF (2015 the best EVF), but as you wrote: SL2 VF is much better

[Stuart Richardson]

Ok, then I am wrong, lol. 

[helged]

3 hours ago, BernardC said:

Leica designed all of the SL lenses for fast focus from the start, with the possible exception of the Summilux. They all have low-inertia focusing groups, and high-end motors.

I did run some tests with SL50Lux on S5ii (on loan for a few days, only). My impression was that the AF motor of the 50Lux is up to the task, but that eye recognition was not that accurate based on a dog running towards me and using continuous af tracking. Animal eye detection is something that needs to be embedded in the focus algorithm, so I guess it will improve with forthcoming FW updates. All in all, I am somewhat optimistic regarding fast and continuous focussing with the SL-lenses, even with the SL50Lux. A few weeks, and we will know...

[LocalHero1953]

My experience of the SL50 Summilux is that the actual motor speed is slower - I assume it's trying to shift a larger mass of glass than the Apo-Summicrons. For portrait work face/eye recognition was fine, and a slower focus acquisition is not a problem. When I tried to use it in play rehearsals it seemed to find the face, but by the time focus had happened the action had moved on. I have no such trouble with 24-90, 90-280 or 75 and 90 APOs. For a similar rendering to the 50SL I have been trying the Summilux-M 75 for plays (on the SL2-S) - faster, but I haven't found the optimal focus technique yet: magnification, focus peaking or just trust my eyes in normal view. 

Edited February 13, 2024 by LocalHero1953

[hdmesa]

11 hours ago, MediaFotografie said:

https://leicarumors.com/2024/02/12/leica-sl2-vs-leica-sl3-specifications-comparison.aspx/

The same EVF as the SL2/S? Even the A7R5 has a 9M dot EVF.

[frankchn]

9 hours ago, helged said:

 Likewise unknown readout time (of relevance for the applicability of the electronic shutter, eg https://www.pix-pro.com/blog/shutter). 

Given that the A7R5's readout time is ~100 milliseconds, I think the SL3 would be similar.

[hdmesa]

9 hours ago, helged said:

Apparently the same EVF as SL2. 69 g reduced weight compared to SL2, giving some support to somewhat reduced size...

Not really. Is the A7R5 a large camera because of its EVF?

Edited February 13, 2024 by hdmesa

[padam]

44 minutes ago, hdmesa said:

The same EVF as the SL2/S? Even the A7R5 has a 9M dot EVF.

With this sensor, that is really only relevant for playback, the live feed does not utilise all the resolution of the sensor, the viewing quality is probably still superior on the Leica.
On the other hand, it would drain the battery even more, which is not something the SL can become worse at, and it would also increase the price.

[helged]

1 hour ago, LocalHero1953 said:

My experience of the SL50 Summilux is that the actual motor speed is slower - I assume it's trying to shift a larger mass of glass than the Apo-Summicrons. For portrait work face/eye recognition was fine, and a slower focus acquisition is not a problem. When I tried to use it in play rehearsals it seemed to find the face, but by the time focus had happened the action had moved on. I have no such trouble with 24-90, 90-280 or 75 and 90 APOs. For a similar rendering to the 50SL I have been trying the Summilux-M 75 for plays (on the SL2-S) - faster, but I haven't found the optimal focus technique yet: magnification, focus peaking or just trust my eyes in normal view. 

For the latter, I turn the format to APS-C without any focus magnification, and trust what I see. The APS-C format enlarges the view somewhat, helping a little to mail the focus; full format is available in PP. 

[helged]

54 minutes ago, hdmesa said:

Not really. Is the A7R5 a large camera because of its EVF?

Does reduced weight imply a larger body? Of course it could, but the opposite is certainly a possibility. The latter was what I tried to say. 

[Jon Warwick]

1 hour ago, hdmesa said:

The same EVF as the SL2/S? Even the A7R5 has a 9M dot EVF.

Also the new GFX 100ii has a 9.44m dot EVF with 1.0 magnification. If there is any reality one day to a mirrorless S camera, perhaps that’s where the real jump in body specs vs an SL2 might come from? Still, I will take a look at eventual samples from the SL3, a lot can differ from camera to camera based on BSI, different color filter etc etc. For example, I really like the output of the SL2S and my M11, more than SL2.

Edited February 13, 2024 by Jon Warwick

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[hdmesa]

1 hour ago, helged said:

Does reduced weight imply a larger body? Of course it could, but the opposite is certainly a possibility. The latter was what I tried to say. 

I'm a bit confused as to what you're saying. My point was the A7R5 is small and an acceptable weight, and it still has a 9.44M dot EVF.

1 hour ago, padam said:

With this sensor, that is really only relevant for playback, the live feed does not utilise all the resolution of the sensor, the viewing quality is probably still superior on the Leica.
On the other hand, it would drain the battery even more, which is not something the SL can become worse at, and it would also increase the price.

Live view does not need to send a full res feed to the EVF in order for a 9.XM dot EVF to look nicer than a 5.XM dot EVF. The 9.XM dot EVF allows for a higher magnification of 0.9x (A7R5) and 1.0x (GFX 100 II) over the 0.78x of the SL2, and that likely makes more of a difference to the EVF experience than the resolution alone.

And Leica would still use their same stellar optics for their EVF they always do. Comparing the A7R5 EVF experience to the SL2 is irrelevant to me – at $7K, I expect it to be improved over the SL2.

1 hour ago, padam said:

...it would drain the battery even more...

The battery will be the higher capacity battery introduced with the Q3.

1 hour ago, padam said:

...and it would also increase the price.

At $7K USD, that is the price point at which consumers should expect a 9.XM dot EVF (IMO).

[la1402]

2 hours ago, hdmesa said:

The same EVF as the SL2/S? Even the A7R5 has a 9M dot EVF.

Somehow I feel the amount of dots is not everything. I very much preferred the EVF on my SL2-S over the one in my A7RV. There are a lot of things the Sony does extremely well (and much better), but the EVF is not as impressive as I would expect from 9M.