SL3 Rumors

[CptSlevin]

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via https://leicarumors.com/2023/12/27/the-latest-leica-sl3-camera-rumors.aspx/

[JohnathanLovm]

19 hours ago, CptSlevin said:

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via https://leicarumors.com/2023/12/27/the-latest-leica-sl3-camera-rumors.aspx/

So no more 80MP eh? I wish SL3 has close-shutter when changing lens and allow higher flash sync speed like Sony A1’s 1/400.

Also my dear Leica/Lumix, where the M to L autofocus adapter? The ZF with autofocus M lens is very tempting y’know. 

[Simone_DF]

1 hour ago, JohnathanLovm said:

Also my dear Leica/Lumix, where the M to L autofocus adapter? The ZF with autofocus M lens is very tempting y’know. 

You should ask the Techart folks. If enough people ask for it, they’ll make it.

[helged]

On 12/28/2023 at 8:33 AM, CptSlevin said:

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via https://leicarumors.com/2023/12/27/the-latest-leica-sl3-camera-rumors.aspx/

For those having experience with M11/Q3 (and given that SL3 will use the same sensor): What are your thoughts regarding colour, highlight clipping, lifting of deep shadows, etc? I haven't shot with M10 and M11, but I have extensive experience with SL, SL2 and SL2-S; and my clear preference is for SL2-S due to its color and fairly good shadows recovery. Highlight clipping is also ok with 'proper' under exposure and lifting in post. I ask as I am looking for a body to companion SL2-S (presently Lumix S1R).

Thanks! 

[hoolyproductions]

3 minutes ago, helged said:

For those having experience with M11/Q3 (and given that SL3 will use the same sensor): What are your thoughts regarding colour, highlight clipping, lifting of deep shadows, etc? I haven't shot with M10 and M11, but I have extensive experience with SL, SL2 and SL2-S; and my clear preference is for SL2-S due to its color and fairly good shadows recovery. Highlight clipping is also ok with 'proper' under exposure and lifting in post. I ask as I am looking for a body to companion SL2-S (presently Lumix S1R).

Thanks! 

Hi. My very amateur impressions on this. I'm not an expert on dynamic range measurements but I have a lot of practical experience using these cameras, particularly in very low light. I used M10 from release until about 2021. Then SL2-S and SL2 since then, and I bought an M11 a few months ago and have been using it for 90% of my shooting.

Indeed I prefer the SL2-S to the SL2 both in terms of shadow recovery and highlight clipping (e.g. when shooting landscapes), but still found the SL2 to be excellent, just had to be a little more careful with the highlights. When shooting in very low light (ISO 12500-25000) I personally find the SL2-S to be light years ahead and the SL2 to be (relatively) unusable. (Same for the Q2 that I had for a while.) 

When buying the M11 I had serious doubts it would be anywhere as good as the SL2-S in very low light but have been amazed. I regularly shoot at ISO 10000-20000 and find the results essentially as good as with the SL2-S. I've shot a bunch of candid landscapes also and have no complaints (but am perhaps not so sensitive as others on DR in decent light). The M10 in my recollection was significantly better than the SL2 in these low light conditions but not at the level of the SL2-S.

In short, if they are planning to use the 60mp sensor I have no concerns (also a couple of years have passed so even if it is the same sensor there might still be significant changes in how it renders an image e.g. processor, firmware).

 

[SrMi]

33 minutes ago, helged said:

For those having experience with M11/Q3 (and given that SL3 will use the same sensor): What are your thoughts regarding colour, highlight clipping, lifting of deep shadows, etc? I haven't shot with M10 and M11, but I have extensive experience with SL, SL2 and SL2-S; and my clear preference is for SL2-S due to its color and fairly good shadows recovery. Highlight clipping is also ok with 'proper' under exposure and lifting in post. I ask as I am looking for a body to companion SL2-S (presently Lumix S1R).

Thanks! 

 

[helged]

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15 minutes ago, SrMi said:

 

Thanks - and excellent tests for what I am looking for (possibly SL3-S, rather than SL3...; but improved AF keeps my interest to SL3 (or Lumix S5II)). 

[Jon Warwick]

1 hour ago, helged said:

For those having experience with M11/Q3 (and given that SL3 will use the same sensor): What are your thoughts regarding colour, highlight clipping, lifting of deep shadows, etc? I haven't shot with M10 and M11, but I have extensive experience with SL, SL2 and SL2-S; and my clear preference is for SL2-S due to its color and fairly good shadows recovery. Highlight clipping is also ok with 'proper' under exposure and lifting in post. I ask as I am looking for a body to companion SL2-S (presently Lumix S1R).

Thanks! 

My personal view is the M11 seems to behave similarly to my GFX100S in the sense that I find it pretty challenging to blow the highlights, and compared to my SL2, I feel like I can expose the M11 accurately for the bulk of the frame and pull down the highlights ....ie, rather than purposely underexposing just to save the highlights and lifting the majority of the scene in post.

[Stuart Richardson]

2 hours ago, SrMi said:

 

The SL2S looks MUCH better to me in that comparison...notice how much less of a magenta color cast in the shadows, the total lack of banding...vs the M11 where the corners and edges of the frame are more magenta than the center. This is a killer in images taken at night where much of the frame is dark. It can become very obvious. This is the same issue I had with the S3 that led me to sell it. Saturation is adjustable, and grain is usually not a barrier on its own. We have to keep in mind that they will also be adding phase detect sensors which could potentially exacerbate the banding. To me at least, it looks like the SL2S will remain the better low light camera. The megapixel advantage means the M11 can be downsampled to have less apparent grain, but banding and color casts do not disappear when downsampled, unfortunately.

[LBJ2]

11 hours ago, JohnathanLovm said:

So no more 80MP eh? I wish SL3 has close-shutter when changing lens and allow higher flash sync speed like Sony A1’s 1/400.

Also my dear Leica/Lumix, where the M to L autofocus adapter? The ZF with autofocus M lens is very tempting y’know. 

There were some wishful on the forums hoping for more MPs, creating their own rumor for a higher MP camera. We shall see. Based upon previous Q/SL sensor correlations, I think we can expect the same MP Q3 count in the SL3. 

But also this particular rumored SL3 specs list is very basic, nothing very exciting or a surprise and IMO easily guessed since it's pretty much what most of us expect in the new SL3. 

[LocalHero1953]

Where do you think Leica Rumors gets its rumours? In the absence of any specific alternative, it is as likely to be the same speculation and, frankly, unsupported assertion that can be read here. 

I shall wait and see. I won’t be putting in a preorder. 

[LBJ2]

28 minutes ago, LocalHero1953 said:

Where do you think Leica Rumors gets its rumours? In the absence of any specific alternative, it is as likely to be the same speculation and, frankly, unsupported assertion that can be read here. 

I shall wait and see. I won’t be putting in a preorder. 

In this case the source is "E8M_8888"  https://weibo.com/2424567755/NtAE2EnGg?pagetype=profilefeed

Weibo seems to be consistent source of reliable rumors across camera/lens manufacturers for a few years now. 

 

[SrMi]

5 hours ago, Stuart Richardson said:

The SL2S looks MUCH better to me in that comparison...notice how much less of a magenta color cast in the shadows, the total lack of banding...vs the M11 where the corners and edges of the frame are more magenta than the center. This is a killer in images taken at night where much of the frame is dark. It can become very obvious. This is the same issue I had with the S3 that led me to sell it. Saturation is adjustable, and grain is usually not a barrier on its own. We have to keep in mind that they will also be adding phase detect sensors which could potentially exacerbate the banding. To me at least, it looks like the SL2S will remain the better low light camera. The megapixel advantage means the M11 can be downsampled to have less apparent grain, but banding and color casts do not disappear when downsampled, unfortunately.

I believe you are referring to ISO 12800 images lifted by three stops. Yes, SL2-S looks better, but I consider that a theoretical situation that I have never encountered in practice.

[Stuart Richardson]

Yes, that makes sense. I would have to play with them both to see how they work for me. In my experience, however, if you can provoke it like this it means that it is fairly likely to show up in shadows if you have to push them, even at somewhat low ISOs. The reason I think is that you are essentially amplifying the baseline noise, and if the baseline noise pattern is uneven, then if you push the file hard enough it will always be present. This can also present in different ways when using dual gain sensors. For example, I found a lot of banding when pushing shadows in the S3 even at ISO 100, but if you increased the ISO to 800 and pushed the shadows they were counter-intuitively cleaner...but that same banding would show up again at very high ISOs, like 6400 and above. Meanwhile, the SL2 was a much noisier sensor overall, but at least in my copy there was no banding at all and pure blacks (no magenta cast) even at ISO 50000. It looked like someone dropped a salt and pepper mix on the pictures, but it was all grain and no color casts or banding. To me this is a much more useful result than having a baseline color cast or banding, which are usually difficult or impossible to correct and clearly an error, unlike grain, which can at times be a nice aesthetic for certain images.

[Olaf_ZG]

Whatever will be, I guess the 2s won’t be sold, it will be a great backup.

[Simone_DF]

Same. I’d really like to get a tilting screen and PDAF, but between the amazing low light capabilities and the option to shoot with the electronic shutter - which I use regularly- I think that the SL2-S is still the best camera at the moment. 
The 60mp sensor has an awful readout speed.

[CptSlevin]

Possible specs of Leica SL3S
via https://photorumors.com/2024/01/03/panasonic-s1-ii-s1-iix-cameras-rumored-specifications/

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[Stuart Richardson]

That sounds more appealing to me...at least as an upgrade to the SL2-S, if it eventually makes its way there. If they released a similarly boosted S1R (better specs with a bump in megapixels), and that winds up in the SL3, then I think that could persuade me to jump. It does not sound that likely though. My guess is that if this is real, this will be the replacement for both the S1 and S1R...rather than having a low res/high res split, come in the middle with one camera that can do both well. It may allow them to compete better with the other cameras out there. For me at least, however, I prefer to have both, as I would rather have the highest end resolution for most of my work, but then have the best low light and video possibilities with the other camera. Right now that is the SL2 and S1 for my kit. If the introduced SL3 does not look like it will persuade me to upgrade, then I will likely sell the S1 and find a used SL2S once the used price comes down a bit...the main reason being that it would be nicer to have the same interface and file synergy. It was too expensive to buy both new for me to justify, but when the price comes down...both the SL2 and SL2S are killer cameras if super fast AF (especially AFc and tracking) is not really a need for you.

Edited January 3, 2024 by Stuart Richardson

[Gavin G]

https://petapixel.com/2024/01/08/panasonic-made-a-new-super-accurate-in-camera-subject-recognition-ai/

Will this feature implement for SL3 and upcoming Pana body?

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Hallo,

Look here: Leica L-Mount

[BernardC]

3 hours ago, Gavin G said:

https://petapixel.com/2024/01/08/panasonic-made-a-new-super-accurate-in-camera-subject-recognition-ai/

Will this feature implement for SL3 and upcoming Pana body?

They already claim to use AI for subject recognition. I think all brands do.