Thoughts from owners of these three 50mm options please!

[didier]

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26 minutes ago, jakontil said:

Perfect, either lux, or the apo.. i have both fortunately.. always lean more towards the apo though

+1

so do I. The APO has something special and, being small and with all its qualities, complements the noct you’ll have for low light and/or razor-thin DOF

 

 

[didier]

22 minutes ago, Kiwimac said:

Of course. Rule 1 of Leica Club: Always go for the most expensive solution!🤣

😂😊

you started well with the noct 😉

(and you were right, it’s a great Lens)

[Kiwimac]

So would you pay NZ$13,500 for the Summicron Apo or save $11,000 and buy the CV Apo Lanthar which appears to be at least 95% as good?

[jakontil]

30 minutes ago, Kiwimac said:

So would you pay NZ$13,500 for the Summicron Apo or save $11,000 and buy the CV Apo Lanthar which appears to be at least 95% as good?

Sometimes that 5% matters more 😂😂😂

[satijntje]

I have experienced that whenever I buy a non-Leica lens, I buy twice, the non Leica lens and then the Leica one.
 

[williamj]

Your photos are great and I can see why you need to think carefully about your next purchase. These are just my very humble thoughts.

As some people have made recommendations without having used all three lenses I won't feel inhibited by sticking my oar in having used none of them. I have looked at photos from these lenses long and hard because I am making a similar decision, although my photos are no where near as great

I can't see any reference to your lenses of other focal lengths and whether you need this 50 to match the image quality or to be different to that other lens. That's key.

I don't see any swirly bokeh in your pictures and so if you want to maintain consistency of style then that rules out the Noctilux 1.2, it's an old design. Swirly bokeh at small aperture can seem busy. This rules out the standard 50 summicron-M, although it is definitely better than earlier 50 summicrons. No hate, chaps.

Character often means flaws. Only you know whether the flaws of the Summilux, a nearly flawless lens, are going to be annoying. For a Leica lens it has good bokeh and it is a tremendous performer. Both Karbe and Puts say if you only have one 50 this is the lens to get. But people complain of stiction in some copies due to the floating element and I've heard say, but I've never seen, that it is not as good with black and white film. That might not be relevant to you.

This leaves the 50 APO. People say it is boring because it only gives you what you see. But that might be what you want. It's too expensive for me, I'd go with the Lux. Actually I'd go with the 50 summicron-M but I shoot film. Forgive my temerity in addressing this issue. Cheers.

[Kiwimac]

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Is there The equivalent of AA for Leica addicts?

[williamj]

35 minutes ago, Kiwimac said:

Is there The equivalent of AA for Leica addicts?

No one wants that

 

Edited January 19, 2023 by williamj
added emoticon

[chasdfg]

55 minutes ago, Kiwimac said:

Is there The equivalent of AA for Leica addicts?

There is.

50mm Noctilux 1.2 AA, 50mm Noctilux 0.95 AA, 35mm Summilux Aspherical (AA)...

😄

[Kiwimac]

53 minutes ago, williamj said:

Your photos are great and I can see why you need to think carefully about your next purchase. These are just my very humble thoughts.

As some people have made recommendations without having used all three lenses I won't feel inhibited by sticking my oar in having used none of them. I have looked at photos from these lenses long and hard because I am making a similar decision, although my photos are no where near as great

I can't see any reference to your lenses of other focal lengths and whether you need this 50 to match the image quality or to be different to that other lens. That's key.

I don't see any swirly bokeh in your pictures and so if you want to maintain consistency of style then that rules out the Noctilux 1.2, it's an old design. Swirly bokeh at small aperture can seem busy. This rules out the standard 50 summicron-M, although it is definitely better than earlier 50 summicrons. No hate, chaps.

Character often means flaws. Only you know whether the flaws of the Summilux, a nearly flawless lens, are going to be annoying. For a Leica lens it has good bokeh and it is a tremendous performer. Both Karbe and Puts say if you only have one 50 this is the lens to get. But people complain of stiction in some copies due to the floating element and I've heard say, but I've never seen, that it is not as good with black and white film. That might not be relevant to you.

This leaves the 50 APO. People say it is boring because it only gives you what you see. But that might be what you want. It's too expensive for me, I'd go with the Lux. Actually I'd go with the 50 summicron-M but I shoot film. Forgive my temerity in addressing this issue. Cheers.

No temerity to be excused; all sensible views welcome! Thank you for taking the time to look at the images.

Most of the work was shot with zooms. Typically I carried two bodies, one with something like a 17-35 f2.8 and the other with a 70-200 f2.8. The net result of that is that if you analyes the images in Lightroom you will see that they cluster around the ends of the zoom ranges. This also means that there was a gap from 35-70 that was rarely filled (there are a few images on the site shot with 35 and 50 but not many). My first camera - a Canon SLR - came with a 50 and I shot just that for years. As a teenager at school I could not afford more lenses!

I like 50 as a range. I tend to be more a photographer who observes rather than engages - so wide angles, which really ought to be used close to the subject to make the most of their feel - are not my favourite. 

The 50 Apo is probably the logical (if expensive!) option. I am just not sure I would dare buy the the Noctilux at the same time given the bill!

[Kiwimac]

I'll add to my post above a bit just to say that part of the reason I am returning to Leica is to find simplicity.

There is a sort of Zen in having only the exposure and focus to concern yourself with other than composition. My last - now sold - big system was a Fujifilm GFX system. Fantastic imaging device but just too big and too complex. It was rammed home to me one evening when I looked up at the moon and thought the clouds and evening twilight made a great image. I fetched the camera from in my office. 

I wanted to use spot metering and the camera was set in Matrix. It took me 15 minutes - and my phone with the internet to look it up - to change the metering mode. I missed the shot.

Reflecting on that, I decided enough was enough. I needed to return to simplicity so that I could concentrate more on being creative instead of driving overly complex devices filled with clever features 95% of users never need.

So no, the images on my site are not typical Leica images really. But they will be - if not typical - Leica images soon enough.

[Kiwimac]

I (think...) have arrived at a decision.

The Apo 50 Summicron.

I considered getting the Noctilux 0.95 as well but in the end I decided it would end up being an occasionally used toy really. 

Why not the Summilux? Well, firstly because it's cheaper today, so has further to go up before I start to sweat at the cost - the Apo is already at sweating point and will only get worse - it will never be cheaper than it is today. Secondly, there appear to be rumours that a newer version might be in the offing, which makes sense to me as it has been around since long before 40 MP sensors were dreamed up and it is a popular lens. Thirdly if the Apo doesn't suit well I can always sell it and buy a Lux but not the other way round!

My dealer asked me if I would prefer black or silver and was unable to explain the price difference since the silver ones AFAIK are anodised aluminium just like the black ones now, rather than brass. He has written to Leica in Germany to ask why (I have a sneaking suspicion that because chromed brass silver lenses were more expensive, Leica has just continued charging more for silver because it always has - we will see and I will tell you the answer he gets!)

Of course I immediately started looking into what other lenses I should buy. I then slapped myself firmly and reminded myself that the goal is to shoot just this for a year and then see what focal lengths I genuinely found I was missing, rather than hypothesising the answer in advance and buying a bunch of lenses I do not need.

Then again I have signed nothing so maybe I will have another idea...!

[Kiwimac]

Looking? Quite possibly!

 However, I’m scared of no man and only one woman….!

[thatkatmat]

I'm a 50 fanatic, I have all 3 of your choices and then some.

I don't agree with others that the 50 APO doesn't have character. I think it has a beautiful look on both my m10R and mono. Not as 3d as my Summilux Asph, but clean. Also, whoever said that unless you have a tripod the cost of the higher quality APO is negated is wrong IMO. It's an easy lens to use and you can create the vivid lifelike beautiful rendering easily.

The 50 asph is really a lovely lens, it's the one I started with on Leica and the one that got me hooked.

I think one that should be on your list is the Summilux 50mm f1.4 e43 v2. It's a nice compromise between the 1.2 Noct and the Lux asph. Sharp in the center wide open with interesting bokeh. 

Looks like you settled on the APO. I think any of them will give you amazing results...Good luck!

[Kiwimac]

Well, I think I have settled on the Apo. Nothing signed yet though..!

 

The dealer and I are just trying to work out why there is a price difference between silver and black given that both are anodised aluminium.

I think all the lenses have character - I can easily see myself owning a Summilux 1.4 50mm as well for the different drawing. And a 75 Apo. And a Summaron 28.

I just have to start somewhere and the Apo appeals because it is neat and tidy and extremely good. It is also the most expensive (outside of a Noctilux which I cannot see myself wanting to use as an EDC) so I figure it will never be cheaper than it is today - especially in this era in which we find ourselves.

 

I'll keep an eye out for the  lens @thatkatmatmentions above: finding things like that in NZ is not easy and so that means buying used from overseas which is a bit of a gamble. Perhaps next time I am in London or visiting my brother in the USA I can look at that.

[Kiwimac]

So the dealer had to throw more chum in the water by mentioning that i could save 10% on an M10-M if I bought it at the same time. 
 

Great but that would mess up the lens budget!!

[jakontil]

32 minutes ago, Kiwimac said:

So the dealer had to throw more chum in the water by mentioning that i could save 10% on an M10-M if I bought it at the same time. 
 

Great but that would mess up the lens budget!!

Dont take the bait unless you need the M, focus on apo… you will mess up everything if u get greedy 😀😀😀

[Ouroboros]

29 minutes ago, Kiwimac said:

So the dealer had to throw more chum in the water by mentioning that i could save 10% on an M10-M if I bought it at the same time. 
 

Great but that would mess up the lens budget!!

Probably because it’s discontinued to be replaced by an M11M or something.  Where would that leave you?

The only lens that is close to any on your list of three that I have personally owned is an f1 noctilux, so take my comments with a pinch of salt.

I don’t care what anyone else says, imx a noctilux is a one trick pony and it’s just not the right lens for me.  Unless you’re going to shoot only at max aperture, and that would not always suit your work from what I can see, my feeling is you’d need another 50mm lens for those times when you need, or want, to tear yourself away from gloopy bokeh with something with more contrast, better resolution, better corrected and lighter to carry than a noctilux.

That said, I get the feeling you have a noctilux itch that needs to be scratched as it does with most Leica M users.

I’ve no experience of the summilux asph, but it’s reputation as a stellar lens preceeds it and you could not go far wrong with that as your choice, even if it is a bit long in the tooth.  How about satisfying your noctilux curiosity and backing it up with a used summilux or vice-versa at the same time.  If you later decide to sell one, you would not lose money and if you buy wisely, you might even make a bit on the deal.

All that said, before I would make a final decision I’d want to try the 50 apo summicron as my personal main contender of the three on your list.  I say that for a couple of reasons; I like summicrons and I particularly like my current non-apo 50mm summicron.  It’s small, neat and tidy and does it’s job as a lens to go travelling or walking with without it getting in the way, so I can only imagine the 50mm apo-summicron does all that and more and is even better optically.

I’d put the 50mm apo summicron at the top of my list, but it’s just another opinion on what I feel would suit me best out of your shortlist.

 

 

 

[Kiwimac]

I am almost certain to stick to the plan. 

Much as I would like the M10-M, firstly it all adds up to a huge sum of money and even I have some apprehension about that. Secondly I am actually more inclined to get the Q2M. It is less expensive but mostly because it sees in B&W in the EVF and because it offers a different view and user experience.

I still think that getting the 10-R and the Apo will give a really excellent system that is easy to travel with and gives world class results (ignoring the eejit operator!).

I have no doubt that I would enjoy an M10-M or a Q2M. I grew up shooting B&W film and it would be great fun to have such cameras. However, now may not be the moment.

I must resist, tied to the mast Odysseus-like, the siren call of the crack  camera dealer!

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Hallo,

Look here: Leica M

[Ouroboros]

2 hours ago, Kiwimac said:

 

I still think that getting the 10-R and the Apo will give a really excellent system that is easy to travel with and gives world class results 

 

So do I.  Good decision!