M11 freeze issues [Merged]

[colint544]

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13 minutes ago, Edax said:

If there would have info at that moment that people are loosing pictures through corrupt, unreadable .DNG files (I am now one of the victims myself), no I would never have bought it.

The focus should be on solving this COMPLETELY UNACCEPTABLE corrupted .DNG issue, not on the residual lockups. That seems/feels now like a decoy.

That's a very good point. Losing images is unacceptable. I'm an M11 owner myself. I really hope Leica can get this camera working reliably as it should. The worry is that they will keep fobbing owners off until warranties run out. When the M12 appears, the M11 can then be dismissed as an old model.

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[R4p70r]

The operating system of the camera is not quite robust. Something bizzare happened with my Q3 yesterday and my guess is its OS is based on the same main branch but branched out specifically for the Q3. I did a simply battery level check so I switched the Q3 camera on, saw the battery level and I immediately switched the camera off with the result that the camera stayed powered on no matter what I did. The camera was totally not reacting to the the power on/off switch. Switched in off, on, off, on... no reaction. Only a simple battery pop out and insert it back in was the solution. 

After that I switched on the camera and after it was fully on as in full operable a message is displayed that the SD Card is in read-only mode. 

So the entire boot up sequence of the OS with the SD Card check takes so long that the OS can get stuck. This should never happen. For me this is telling how the OS is built, programmed and the whole platform is tested (I am working in the IT and also software programmer).  I'll try this scenario on my M11 if this also occurs on it.

Edited February 17, 2024 by R4p70r

[lct]

2 hours ago, colint544 said:

It seems Leica themselves are working hard on the next firmware upgrade. They've started a case collection thread expressly asking for feedback on freezes with the current firmware. The thread has been up for three days now, and it's only had six replies [...]

And only 5 case reports last time i checked. Where are the other complainers? Some LUF members are "working" to find solutions too, including those having zero issue with the camera but they can hardly speak for others, especially those generalizing their individual problem as if all M11 bodies were faulty.

[hjddd]

The problem of M11 series is far more serious than the freezing issues, the new firmware need resolve the unreadable DNG file, weird white balance , SD card problem ^

2 hours ago, colint544 said:

想象一下有人想要购买他或她的第一台徕卡的情景。 M11。潜在买家上网做了一些研究，最终无意中发现了这条 93 页长的帖子。他们最终得出的结论是，操作相机比 1969 年送人登月还要困难。

看来徕卡自己正在为下一步的固件升级而努力。他们已经启动了一个案例收集线程，明确要求提供有关当前固件冻结的反馈。该帖子已经发布三天了，但只有 6 条回复。

 

[Smudgerer]

I don't own a M11 model, any of the versions. I did consider trading up from the 10's a year ago but held off thinking that the freezing, the firmware and other reported problems here would be sorted out later, maybe with the M11-P whenever that would inevitably appear knowing Leica's camera model release pattern, but no it seems that not much has been successfully addressed by Wetzlar at all, it's one thing after another and yes for such an expensive investment by those who own a M11 kit it is unacceptable..........But still we, Leica owners in general, seem to put up with it and keep our heads in the sand and fingers crossed that with a little bit of luck all will come right, with the M11 that appears to wishful thinking. I do believe that Leica is in over it's head in software/firmware design and application, the M line of cameras nicely designed as they are are getting too electronically complicated and it seems that Leica itself does not have the skills or software designers to address these problems in a timely way, ie: before launch, wouldn't that be a nice thing? It's unlikely to happen but I do wish that Leica would go back to making less electronically complicated M's, stop chasing the more-mega-pixel chimera and come back to plain well engineered cameras that have a refined simplicity, KISS.

[kkm]

vor 46 Minuten schrieb lct:

And only 5 case reports last time i checked.

Did you also check the corresponding thread in the German part of the forum? 

[lct]

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50 minutes ago, kkm said:

Did you also check the corresponding thread in the German part of the forum? 

No sorry. How many case reports there? Just curious.

Edited February 17, 2024 by lct

[kkm]

@lct 7 cases right now

[lct]

3 minutes ago, kkm said:

@lct 7 cases right now

Thank you @kkm. I don't speak German unfortunately so there's little i can do to help our German colleagues, assuming my modest experience and lack of technical competence can be of any help to anybody...

[hdmesa]

8 hours ago, lct said:

Where are the other complainers? ,,,

Is that what those reporting real issues in this thread are? Complainers? 

Some who reported freezes in this thread have likely sold the camera and moved on.

Edited February 17, 2024 by hdmesa

[hdmesa]

^ Or maybe they have no interest in participating in what seems like a beta test group for what should be a mature product?

[lct]

49 minutes ago, hdmesa said:

^ Or maybe they have no interest in participating in what seems like a beta test group for what should be a mature product?

Or other complainers (claimants? sorry for my bad English) don't own an M11, i have no idea.

[maidenfan84]

16 hours ago, Smudgerer said:

I don't own a M11 model, any of the versions. I did consider trading up from the 10's a year ago but held off thinking that the freezing, the firmware and other reported problems here would be sorted out later, maybe with the M11-P whenever that would inevitably appear knowing Leica's camera model release pattern, but no it seems that not much has been successfully addressed by Wetzlar at all, it's one thing after another and yes for such an expensive investment by those who own a M11 kit it is unacceptable..........But still we, Leica owners in general, seem to put up with it and keep our heads in the sand and fingers crossed that with a little bit of luck all will come right, with the M11 that appears to wishful thinking. I do believe that Leica is in over it's head in software/firmware design and application, the M line of cameras nicely designed as they are are getting too electronically complicated and it seems that Leica itself does not have the skills or software designers to address these problems in a timely way, ie: before launch, wouldn't that be a nice thing? It's unlikely to happen but I do wish that Leica would go back to making less electronically complicated M's, stop chasing the more-mega-pixel chimera and come back to plain well engineered cameras that have a refined simplicity, KISS.

 

 

This was going to be me, as well. I was considering buying an M11, or M11p, and decided against it considering all of the stories that can be found in most all places on the Internet about the model just having way too many issues. "Try to use this SD card but don't use that SD so it won't freeze", "make sure you push the buttons in a video game cheat code order so that way it doesn't freeze on you', "It's still the best camera ever even though it freezes on me when I use this lens, but not that lens!", and so forth. Completely unacceptable at any price point, let alone $9,000 USD, for a camera to work in such a manner. I could take a cheap run of the mill $100 10 year old digital camera and throw any SD card from any brand I want and it will work without fault. Any lens that will fit that mount will just work without fault, etc. Why people continue to just look the other way instead of holding Leica accountable for these sorts of things is absolutely beyond me. I know myself I don't have that sort of money to just say, "Oh, well!" and live with a half baked camera model. At this point, I don't see myself buying any variant of an M11 at any point time, now or in the future. An M12, if there will be one, isn't going to have me running to get in line for one, either. Will definitely wait a year or two to see if Leica gets their act together. If they want my money and my business, they have to earn it. I remember when "Made in Germany" actually meant something special. Harsh? Perhaps. Truth? Absolutely. 

Edited February 18, 2024 by maidenfan84

[geoffc60]

My M11 nor several other owners I know have had any problems with our M11's to date. Absolute perfection.

On the other hand my Canon R5 froze on me yesterday as I started a shoot requiring removal of the battery.

Edited February 18, 2024 by geoffc60

[lct]

I'm adding Dust Protection to my tips below for sake of updating. The tips are purely empirical as usual (my first list is from 2002 for the Digilux 1 go figure), so don’t feel compelled to follow them. About tip 4, Leica has found a fix apparently but i keep it in my list given that some LUF members are keeping an old firmware. All advices are welcome for improving the list if needed.
1. Switching camera off before mounting or removing a coded lens or adapter.
2. Switching camera off before mounting or removing the Visoflex 2.
3. Formatting memory cards with SD Card Formatter before inserting them in the camera.
4. Refraining from selecting lens detection auto for uncoded lenses.
5. Setting auto review to shutter button pressed.
6. Setting Dust Protection to off when using uncoded lenses.

[kiwidad]

On 2/15/2024 at 1:46 AM, lct said:

As explained above or elsewhere, i could not use some of my uncoded LTM to M adapters before firmware 2.0.2, due to the shutter being closed the way dust protection was implemented. Since firmware 2.0.2, i just toggle off dust protection for some uncoded lenses and/or adapters, while keeping it on for coded lenses and adapters. Excellent firmware for me. YMMV.

I have 4 leica uncoded LTM adapters and the problem occurs in bright light and seems to be light leakage around the adapter falling the coding sensor making the camera think there is no lens attached. that show dust protection is supposed to work. I switched to the adapters sold by cameraquest and have never experienced the perceived issue with dust protection again

[lct]

43 minutes ago, kiwidad said:

I have 4 leica uncoded LTM adapters and the problem occurs in bright light and seems to be light leakage around the adapter falling the coding sensor making the camera think there is no lens attached. that show dust protection is supposed to work. I switched to the adapters sold by cameraquest and have never experienced the perceived issue with dust protection again

Interesting thank you. The problem occurred to me with 2 uncoded adapters, a silver K&F and a black Rayqual. In both cases, the camera displays "No Lens" in all lighting environments and the shutter remains closed as expected. Setting Dust Protection to off under firmware 2.0.2 fixed the issue definitely.

Edited February 18, 2024 by lct

[londond]

Have just received a survey from Leica following up with people who had reported freezes with the previous version.  Having made a few frustrated posts here - and at risk of irritating those still suffering - just felt I should say I’m happy with how they handled this.  The support person (Tim) was courteous and professional in diagostic questions, the latest release fixed my problems and I’m impressed they followed it up.  I still get a very rare freeze, perhaps the same frequency as before v2.01, which does not compromise my user experience.

In an earlier grumpy post I had accepted, from my own background delivering complex IT, that you get problematic releases, the test would be how it’s handled.  From my perspective, this was fine.

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[Gelatino]

@Ict,  to answer to your question on the "Case collection ... ... Firmware V2.0.2", on my M11, I use only 6bit coded lenses, so the lens detection is off, and the dust detection too.

[lct]

1 hour ago, Gelatino said:

@Ict,  to answer to your question on the "Case collection ... ... Firmware V2.0.2", on my M11, I use only 6bit coded lenses, so the lens detection is off, and the dust detection too.

Thank you @Gelatino When you turn camera off and on, lens detection is set to auto then i suspect, right?

 

Edited February 20, 2024 by lct