M11 freeze issues [Merged]

[hdmesa]

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Edited October 3, 2024 by hdmesa

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[Derbyshire Man]

It doesn’t sound right to me. Even prior to the firmware upgrades, as long as used internal only the freeze rate was 1 in 3000. If I provoked it by using SD, mixing coded/uncoded lenses, taking cards in and out without wiping = 1 in 100-300. Currently even in full provocation mode post firmware updates I’m not managing to trigger crashes on M11P, M11M or M11D. 
 

I think I’d reject it. 

[kiwidad]

13 hours ago, jjesp said:

Then the new owner will write here and tell that a previous owner have sold him/her a lemon. Does not seem a very good solution - even in these 2024 ego times where we only think on ourselves...

Let Leica fix it. If they can't they will have to give you a M12 when it comes - or give you your money back. At some point Leica have to admit that they made a mistake with the M11 - and take the loss for that. Even if it is not their fault, but some cheap Chinese board manufacturer....  

Leica did not make a mistake with the M11. with all the noise its hard to know just what percentage M11 are affected by real issues, user issues, or no issues ESPECIALLY since there are no sales numbers and it appears some users posting hundreds of times in the "problems threads" which make the problem appear more serious!

[Loplop]

11 hours ago, pedaes said:

Anytime a M body is opened the covering needs replacing, this is just a function of a service. From experience, even if you sent in a brand new camera, it would be described as "expected wear' - that is just standard Leica speak and means nothing.

Why don't you go back to the supplying Dealer and ask if you can return it for a refund?

Can I ask if this is your first M body?

Full disclosure - M11-P and no 'freezes'.

Not my first M, I’ve been shooting Leica for over 2 decades. Only my second digital M to be fair, and my first color digital M.  I have of course had zillions of other digital cameras, mostly Canon with some others appearing now and again.  I was a late comer to digital, my first digicam had 1 full megapixel.

WRT returning, I was at the end of my 14-day return window, so unfortunately that’s the decision I came to, as well.  I didn’t have much choice as I learned this unit has no warranty from Leica.  I thought every camera this authorized dealer sold came with warranty from Leica, and as I called right after it hit their website (no pics and description) and asked about condition, etc, I didn’t even think to ask about warranty. My fault there.

The dealer is making it right and letting me hang onto it until a new M11-P comes in (next week).  Don’t really love that I’ll be paying a lot more, but I just want a working camera at this point, and I appreciate their attentiveness. They’ve been great. 

10 hours ago, lct said:

You're not alone but i do like that feature of the camera. I own several coded and uncoded lenses as well and when i use an uncoded one i expect the camera to recall the last one i entered the profile manually. Good feature for my ageing memory sorry...

I actually like it, also, in practice! Just was calling out the bug after saving a user profile.  Meaning: not all bugs are excised yet

5 hours ago, Derbyshire Man said:

It doesn’t sound right to me. Even prior to the firmware upgrades, as long as used internal only the freeze rate was 1 in 3000. If I provoked it by using SD, mixing coded/uncoded lenses, taking cards in and out without wiping = 1 in 100-300. Currently even in full provocation mode post firmware updates I’m not managing to trigger crashes on M11P, M11M or M11D. 
 

I think I’d reject it. 

See above, yep, I think that’s the only path here. Given enough time, I would figure out repeatable configurations and/or steps to make it freeze and communicate to Leica. I run software development teams, and I’m very good at coming up with plans to illuminate bugs. But I ran out of time, and they’re not paying me, i actually paid them for this pleasure, so…. 😂 

Now I need to decide, M11-P black, silver or M11-D. 

Big thanks to all for guidance and assistance. It was very helpful. I 

[pedaes]

7 hours ago, Loplop said:

M11-P black, silver or M11-D. 

Sure you have made right call. Can I just remind you of weight difference if important to you. Both look awesome!

Enjoy!

[Derbyshire Man]

20 hours ago, hdmesa said:

Sometimes it’s just a lemon for the seller because of their settings, SD cards, or user error. It’s like the person who sold their problem vehicle only to learn the person that bought it drove it for years without a single problem. 

 

I do love a bit of victim blaming!

A £8,000 camera should be able to operate with all of the available settings without freezing. There is no world where this is acceptable. Further, despite the noise about 'wrong SD cards' there are people on the forum with antediluvian cards that work perfectly fine.

Agree with your overall point though these issues are patchy.

What I will say is that Leica have taken this seriously.

[Derbyshire Man]

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8 hours ago, Loplop said:

Not my first M, I’ve been shooting Leica for over 2 decades. Only my second digital M to be fair, and my first color digital M.  I have of course had zillions of other digital cameras, mostly Canon with some others appearing now and again.  I was a late comer to digital, my first digicam had 1 full megapixel.

WRT returning, I was at the end of my 14-day return window, so unfortunately that’s the decision I came to, as well.  I didn’t have much choice as I learned this unit has no warranty from Leica.  I thought every camera this authorized dealer sold came with warranty from Leica, and as I called right after it hit their website (no pics and description) and asked about condition, etc, I didn’t even think to ask about warranty. My fault there.

The dealer is making it right and letting me hang onto it until a new M11-P comes in (next week).  Don’t really love that I’ll be paying a lot more, but I just want a working camera at this point, and I appreciate their attentiveness. They’ve been great. 

I actually like it, also, in practice! Just was calling out the bug after saving a user profile.  Meaning: not all bugs are excised yet

See above, yep, I think that’s the only path here. Given enough time, I would figure out repeatable configurations and/or steps to make it freeze and communicate to Leica. I run software development teams, and I’m very good at coming up with plans to illuminate bugs. But I ran out of time, and they’re not paying me, i actually paid them for this pleasure, so…. 😂 

Now I need to decide, M11-P black, silver or M11-D. 

Big thanks to all for guidance and assistance. It was very helpful. I 

It surprised me when I realised that if that was my choice I'd go M11D. Never thought I'd think that. If however it had been M11M vs M11D it's monochrom every time! I don't take photographs for commercial clients with art directors etc, I do everything I can to avoid shooting weddings. So the choice for me is all about pleasure. I've found that the M11D is an excellent, albeit unforgiving tutor, I like the challenge, the process and the zone.

Very personal choice though!

[hdmesa]

6 hours ago, Derbyshire Man said:

I do love a bit of victim blaming!

A £8,000 camera should be able to operate with all of the available settings without freezing. There is no world where this is acceptable. Further, despite the noise about 'wrong SD cards' there are people on the forum with antediluvian cards that work perfectly fine.

Agree with your overall point though these issues are patchy.

What I will say is that Leica have taken this seriously.

Agreed, but it was not victim blaming, more like self-shaming. I have an electronics-killing aura 🫠 

[gtownby]

Notwithstanding the general consensus that firmware updates seem to be helping the issue, I have two questions about the freezing issue:

1. It seems that a lot of reports talk about freezing after a lot of successive exposures. Any freezing problems for those shooters whose style is slower, such as shoot, "chimp" and shoot again?

2. Some have mentioned that new M11 purchasers should do a 'stress test' to see if their camera has a problem with freezing. What would such a stress test entail?

Thanks, all.

[hdmesa]

1 hour ago, gtownby said:

Notwithstanding the general consensus that firmware updates seem to be helping the issue, I have two questions about the freezing issue:

1. It seems that a lot of reports talk about freezing after a lot of successive exposures. Any freezing problems for those shooters whose style is slower, such as shoot, "chimp" and shoot again?

2. Some have mentioned that new M11 purchasers should do a 'stress test' to see if their camera has a problem with freezing. What would such a stress test entail?

Thanks, all.

With the latest firmware, any remaining freeze issues have no apparent commonality.

The lingering issue for some of occasional overexposure is not freeze-related.

[Smogg]

12 minutes ago, hdmesa said:

With the latest firmware, any remaining freeze issues have no apparent commonality.

The lingering issue for some of occasional overexposure is not freeze-related.

There is a Russian joke. I hope the meaning and humor will not suffer from the translation:

-Rabinovich, were you visiting us yesterday?
-I was!
-So after you left, the silver spoons disappeared!
-But I didn't take them, I'm a decent person!
-Rabinovich, the spoons were found! But you still don't come anymore - the aftertaste remains...

[pedaes]

16 minutes ago, Smogg said:

the aftertaste remains...

We have been here before, and probably will again. It is a Leica thing, and the menu tastes sweet!

[Loplop]

Mine froze again today after boot up. I had to pull the battery this time, it didn’t recover after minutes. So the fresh factory reset plus formatting the internal memory didn’t fix it. I did get a lot more photos today before the freeze. 

Mine freezes only upon boot up or shutdown, never while shooting so far. 

[elmars]

vor 3 Stunden schrieb Loplop:

Mine froze again today after boot up. I had to pull the battery this time, it didn’t recover after minutes. So the fresh factory reset plus formatting the internal memory didn’t fix it. I did get a lot more photos today before the freeze. 

Mine freezes only upon boot up or shutdown, never while shooting so far. 

Leica is working on boot up freezes. There will be a new firmware soon. I hope that helps. 

[Loplop]

6 hours ago, elmars said:

Leica is working on boot up freezes. There will be a new firmware soon. I hope that helps. 

That’s great to hear!

 I’m still going to return this m11, due to the reasons I laid out above. But if my new m11-p has the same issue, I’ll feel more confident it will eventually be fixed. 

I’m glad Leica is taking this seriously and not leaving “older” m11 owners out in the cold. It’s very important, I think, to their longevity. 

[Kim Dahl]

On 10/5/2024 at 6:16 AM, elmars said:

Leica is working on boot up freezes. There will be a new firmware soon. I hope that helps. 

Hi, sounds good with new firmware.

How about the new Leica M11-D. Have you heard if it has the "same" problem with freezing? (like the "old" M11)

- will there be an update for it - you were off ?

- Or is it solved in M11-D ?

[elmars]

In this regard all M are the same as far as I know. 

[SiggiGun]

As we are focusing on the “freezes” when starting the camera, I assume that there may be at least a small difference for the M11-D. I think, but this is my theory, that some problems are related to the user “fiddling” with the various controls (screen, dial, shutter release, function keys, ...). To protect the camera from these possible interference factors when starting up, the controls should be switched off at boot time (before the red LED goes out). However, this is not completely possible with the M11-D because some of these elements are used for certain functions.

This is, of course, a hypothesis.

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[Smudgerer]

Elmars, I just want to say that I for one appreciate your continuing offers of help and advice to we who have jumped into the "M11 waters" hoping that we can swim in this pond well enough soon. You aren't connected with Leica I believe, just a "tester" now and again but your quick responses to often dumb, well mine anyway, questions on our new pieces of kit contrast with Leica's almost complete silence when there's pleas for help. Leica really should consider starting an online "Help and Advice" section / blog on their website where the dazed and confused could turn to get some real direct answers to their questions rather than just flounder around asking other users for help...............Yes I know about the "contact customer service? email address, I am still waiting an answer on a question posed three weeks ago, ( and you resolved for me ).

[Loplop]

7 minutes ago, SiggiGun said:

As we are focusing on the “freezes” when starting the camera, I assume that there may be at least a small difference for the M11-D. I think, but this is my theory, that some problems are related to the user “fiddling” with the various controls (screen, dial, shutter release, function keys, ...). To protect the camera from these possible interference factors when starting up, the controls should be switched off at boot time (before the red LED goes out). However, this is not completely possible with the M11-D because some of these elements are used for certain functions.

This is, of course, a hypothesis.

FWIW, in my case, none of my freezes were related to me touching anything after turning on the camera. I can say that because in most cases, I switch on the camera in anticipation of taking a shot at some point in the near future; I then some minutes later go to take a shot and find the camera unresponsive.  I’ve been shooting for many decades, starting with film and no meter where I’d have to meter before each shot which took some time, so my habit is still “get the camera ready before you need it” 😂 

Now what I’m much less sure of is if the red light ever came on. I have a video of a freeze I took for the dealer and I see on the video that the red light on the back of the camera was not on. I do not watch that light when booting, so I have no idea if it ever was on before I took the video. 

In at least a few cases I never heard the shutter open, which clued me in to something being awry. Maybe that helps.