M11 freeze issues [Merged]

[lct]

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18 minutes ago, IkarusJohn said:

The fact that your M11 doesn’t freeze doesn’t mean that it won’t.  I think it is fair to say that all M11 cameras will freeze given the combination or series of combinations required.  The M11 is Leica’s flagship - it amazes me the issue still isn’t resolved.  My one worry is that, if it is a firmware issue, Leica would have fixed it by now; if it’s a hardware issue, that would require a general recall (we know Leica won’t do that).  Leica’s track record on resolving hardware problems has been to hope the issue goes away (most owners being like you, not triggering freezes, so not worrying).

We cannot agree on all this but it does not matter anyway. Freezes are not a new thing at Leica. Most of them have been fixed by the current 1.6.1 firmware and the remaining ones will be fixed soon or late anyway. Not too late hopefully as the  last camera freeze bug has been fixed in April 2016 on the M240 i.e. almost 4 years after its launch...

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[neonvoid]

On 8/22/2023 at 11:32 PM, lct said:

We cannot agree on all this but it does not matter anyway. Freezes are not a new thing at Leica. Most of them have been fixed by the current 1.6.1 firmware and the remaining ones will be fixed soon or late anyway. Not too late hopefully as the  last camera freeze bug has been fixed in April 2016 on the M240 i.e. almost 4 years after its launch...

You can keep downplaying the issue and offering usage practices that no consumer should ever have to do.
At this point I'm not even sure what your agenda here is. Instead of seeing actual useful info in this thread all I see is your repeated posts from a perspective of someone who has no freezing issues.

No amount of consulting or good will is going to change the fact that Leica released a faulty product.
Consumers should not be responsible for diagnosis efforts. This camera costs a fortune and Leica should act accordingly.

[IkarusJohn]

7 minutes ago, neonvoid said:

You can keep downplaying the issue and offering usage practices that no consumer should ever have to do.
At this point I'm not even sure what your agenda here is. Instead of seeing actual useful info in this thread all I see is your repeated posts from a perspective of someone who has no freezing issues.

No amount of consulting or good will is going to change the fact that Leica released a faulty product.
Consumers should not be responsible for diagnosis efforts. This camera costs a fortune and Leica should act accordingly.

While I have had my fair share of issues with my digital Leicas, and Customer Services have done a great job (for me), I have to agree with this.  Conceptually, great cameras; poor implementation.  They look and feel fabulous, but they’re an expensive way to keep the door open.

[neonvoid]

On 8/22/2023 at 11:31 PM, hdmesa said:

so I'm assuming M11M freezes probably follow the same that the M10 and Q2 variants did – mostly SD card or use-case that are identifiable

I'm using using internal storage for the last couple of months, with only one lens attached to the camera perpetually (Lux 50 ASPH) and have freezes.
I had freezes with an SD card also.

So I wish we finally stop the flow of useless advice.

The fact that Leica is quiet about this is indicative enough for me of the fact that they are clueless or just can't fix it.
All it takes is one simple statement from Leica to put the endless speculations to rest.

[neonvoid]

2 minutes ago, IkarusJohn said:

While I have had my fair share of issues with my digital Leicas, and Customer Services have done a great job (for me), I have to agree with this.  Conceptually, great cameras; poor implementation.  They look and feel fabulous, but they’re an expensive way to keep the door open.

It's almost as if Leica users have been conditioned to accept bugs as exotic features.

[lct]

2 hours ago, neonvoid said:

You can keep downplaying the issue and offering usage practices that no consumer should ever have to do.
At this point I'm not even sure what your agenda here is. Instead of seeing actual useful info in this thread all I see is your repeated posts from a perspective of someone who has no freezing issues.

Sorry to give you this feeling. I try to help less fortunate colleagues the best i can here but i won't hide the simple truth either. I've been an M user since 1971, i began with an M4 that i had to sell but i kept my M3, M4-2, M6J, M8.2, M240 and the current M11. In spite of limits i can live without (lack of IBIS, stapler sound), to me the best of them is, by far, the M11. Got a couple freezes before firmware 1.6.1, and none since then. Simple truth. No agenda. What for? I'm a retired lawyer, not a camera dealer.

[hdmesa]

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4 hours ago, neonvoid said:

I'm using using internal storage for the last couple of months, with only one lens attached to the camera perpetually (Lux 50 ASPH) and have freezes.
I had freezes with an SD card also.

So I wish we finally stop the flow of useless advice.

The fact that Leica is quiet about this is indicative enough for me of the fact that they are clueless or just can't fix it.
All it takes is one simple statement from Leica to put the endless speculations to rest.

I was talking specifically about the M11 Monochrom, are you? With regard to the M11, I’ve said the same thing you just did, which is SD cards are not the problem.

Edited August 24, 2023 by hdmesa

[maxpower]

5 hours ago, neonvoid said:

You can keep downplaying the issue and offering usage practices that no consumer should ever have to do.
At this point I'm not even sure what your agenda here is. Instead of seeing actual useful info in this thread all I see is your repeated posts from a perspective of someone who has no freezing issues.

It is important to note that not everybody has freezing issues simply because not everybody has freezing issues, in this thread everybody has been trying to be helpful and diagnose possible combinations of settings and/or equipment which in turn is helpful information to give to Leica for fixing it. The fact that 1.6.1 has fixed freezing for a lot of people is evidence of this. Ones that actually bricked had faulty hardware from my understanding, but that was much less widespread.

There has been plenty of useful information in this thread that is now 87 pages, but there is not a magic fix hidden in one of the comments. People post experiences, people react with experiences, people try to find commonalities, what more do you expect from a thread like this? 

[lct]

•

Edited August 24, 2023 by lct

[charlesphoto99]

@maxpower One does not need to re-iterate again and again that their camera functions fine when another user is having a problem. Less than helpful actually. Gets your comment count up I guess, but otherwise it just becomes more noise, esp when it happens page after page after page. 

[lct]

1 hour ago, hdmesa said:

[...] SD cards are not the problem [...]

SD cards seemed to be the only problem for me before firmware 1.6.1. First freeze with a Sony Tough card in May 2022  and  couple of freezes with UHS2 Sandisk cards afterwards. UHS1 Sandisk cards seemed to fix my issues for good then but since firmware 1.6.1 i use both UHS1 and UHS2 Sandisk cards with no problem at all. Oops did i utter a forbidden truth once again?

 

[Jeff S]

On 8/22/2023 at 6:31 PM, hdmesa said:

Last reported M11M freeze on this forum was in May of this year, and that person was going to try some SD card formatting suggestions. 

 

 

No, there are at least two different people reporting M11M freezes on recent pages, in August (posts 1717, 1720).  I haven’t looked at posts prior to that. 

Jeff

Edited August 24, 2023 by Jeff S

[neonvoid]

.

Edited August 24, 2023 by neonvoid

[neonvoid]

1 minute ago, lct said:

Indeed but it may serve to keep the attention on SD cards since some people like me go on thinking that memory cards and/or the way Leica manages them can be at least partly the culprit. Reason why one of my tips is to format any card with SD Card Formatter before inserting them in the camera. Worked fine since 2014 with all my cameras for me. YMMV.

Yes, every single post of yours mentions that it worked for you, we get it.

[neonvoid]

7 minutes ago, lct said:

Reason why one of my tips is to format any card with SD Card Formatter

This is voodoo, which is apparent to people with minimal technical background and your advice is a disservice, as far as I'm concerned.

[charlesphoto99]

13 minutes ago, neonvoid said:

This is voodoo, which is apparent to people with minimal technical background and your advice is a disservice, as far as I'm concerned.

And an absolutely ridiculous proposition of something supposedly one has to do to get the best performance out of a nearly $10k camera body.

Edited August 24, 2023 by charlesphoto99

[lct]

6 minutes ago, charlesphoto99 said:

And an absolutely ridiculous proposition of something supposedly one has to do to get the best performance out of a nearly $10k camera body.

Why being that negative? Try my tips if you didn't or suggest yours, if any, unless complaining is your only solution.

[hdmesa]

4 hours ago, Jeff S said:

No, there are at least two different people reporting M11M freezes on recent pages, in August (posts 1717, 1720).  I haven’t looked at posts prior to that. 

Jeff

They would be posting in the wrong thread then since this is about the M11, right? I was referring to the M11M-specific freezing thread here:

Here are the posts from this M11 thread about the M11M to which you refer:

On 8/17/2023 at 11:28 PM, JefreyL said:

I have had freezes in my M11 Monochrom. Bought as soon as it was available. I have the led light on and not going off at startup and I remove the battery and reset camera settings etc and it is fine for a while. My camera was updated to 1.6.1 with no issues updating as soon as I got it. I used Sandisk UHS I and I am currently using a Sandisk SDXC UHS II V90. Did not reproduce the issue yet. I will post an update if anything goes.

This is past tense without a date given, and it's one instance without a repeat as of that date.

On 8/19/2023 at 7:11 AM, DBounce said:

I experienced a freeze in my M11M yesterday.  Pulling the battery was necessary to reset. This problem seems widespread. I believe all M11-series owners either have or will experience this issue the more they use the camera.

Perhaps important to note: My M11M froze after leaving the camera on for about 10 minutes as I looked for opportunities to snap pictures. I cannot recall seeing the problem occur if I switched it off between takes. I don’t think memory card makes a difference. I also don’t believe replacing the camera would make any difference. I’m convinced this is a firmware related bug.

This one is more recent, so your point is duly noted. That said, they don't give any details about their current firmware, and whether they have tried the usual advice such as trying a different SD card, etc.

 

 

 

Edited August 24, 2023 by hdmesa

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[Jeff S]

1 hour ago, hdmesa said:

They would be posting in the wrong thread then since this is about the M11, right? I was referring to the M11M-specific freezing thread here:

Here are the posts from this M11 thread about the M11M to which you refer:

This is past tense without a date given, and it's one instance without a repeat as of that date.

This one is more recent, so your point is duly noted. That said, they don't give any details about their current firmware, and whether they have tried the usual advice such as trying a different SD card, etc.

 

 

 

So I guess you’ll want to report the posts so the mods can move them to the dedicated thread for further discussion and more accurate information.  
 

Jeff

[hdmesa]

25 minutes ago, Jeff S said:

So I guess you’ll want to report the posts so the mods can move them to the dedicated thread for further discussion and more accurate information.  
 

Jeff

If I had seen them I would have  Just today received my fourth M11, hence my recent renewed interest in this thread. So far no freezes. June 2023 manufacture date with 1.6.2.

Edited August 24, 2023 by hdmesa
Corrected manufacture month from July to June