M11 freeze issues [Merged]

[hdmesa]

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17 minutes ago, lct said:

We will have to agree to differ, i fear. My best evidence is my freeze-free M11 for now, the next one will come with a firmware update i suspect.

Your freeze-free M11 could be evidence to the contrary. If it were firmware, there would be far fewer people with no issues. It's not like those of us with the issue have a strange combination of settings or use-cases. We've all shared/compared settings throughout this thread and concluded there is nothing unique to me or the others with the freeze on startup issue. Further, hardware issues do not always affect every camera coming off the line. They could have had a "bad batch" of a component, something that would not be unusual since electronics are still impacted by post-COVID constraints.

Edited June 21, 2023 by hdmesa

[IkarusJohn]

14 minutes ago, lct said:

We will have to agree to differ, i fear. My best evidence is my freeze-free M11 for now, the next one will come with a firmware update i suspect.

If your M11 has no hardware issue, then a further firmware upgrade will make no difference - the last upgrade seems to have fixed the issue for you.  If you did have a freeze issue before, then I agree that a firmware problem would seem to have been YOUR issue.  It just may be that there is also a hardware issue - not with your camera, but with others.  The fact that the last firmware fixed some cameras but not others would suggest there is also a hardware problem.

I don’t have an M11, and don’t propose getting one.  We have seen some software issues with Leica digitals, but we have seen more hardware problems (do I  need to list them?  M8 LCD, M9 sensor etc).  Expensive cameras let down by poor software implementation and apparently cheap electronic componentry - I suppose it could be expensive poor componentry …

I have a film M and may replace my Monochrom if (when) it dies, but I won’t replace my M10-D.  Future digital colour will be with another system.  Even if I liked the M11 and where it is taking the digital M system, this problem has gone on too long without any official statement from Leica for me to trust these digital cameras.  I get they will prefer to fix the problem quietly rather than make a public statement; that strategy doesn’t seem to be working.

[lct]

1 minute ago, IkarusJohn said:

If your M11 has no hardware issue, then a further firmware upgrade will make no difference - the last upgrade seems to have fixed the issue for you.  If you did have a freeze issue before, then I agree that a firmware problem would seem to have been YOUR issue.  It just may be that there is also a hardware issue - not with your camera, but with others [...]

Please forgive the ramblings of this old law teacher but i prefer facts to speculation when i have the choice. I did have freezes before firmware update 1.6.1. Since then, i just followed my own advice so i never use my uncoded lenses under lens detection auto to begin with.

[IkarusJohn]

1 hour ago, lct said:

Please forgive the ramblings of this old law teacher but i prefer facts to speculation when i have the choice. I did have freezes before firmware update 1.6.1. Since then, i just followed my own advice so i never use my uncoded lenses under lens detection auto to begin with.

And yet, logic extends beyond your direct experience without straying into speculation, as a humble construction barrister might observe.  Your solution apparently does not extend to others, notwithstanding your generosity in sharing your experience.  The fact is, something more seems to be going on - that hypothesis seems to be reasonably robust, as @hdmesa's experience seems credible.

Just saying.

Edited June 21, 2023 by IkarusJohn

[hdmesa]

1 hour ago, lct said:

Please forgive the ramblings of this old law teacher but i prefer facts to speculation when i have the choice. I did have freezes before firmware update 1.6.1. Since then, i just followed my own advice so i never use my uncoded lenses under lens detection auto to begin with.

It seem like you're trying to apply the facts from one case to another unrelated investigation. Your case was tried, the firmware was found guilty, and the sentencing was for Leica to code and release the 1.6.1 firmware update. The freezing at startup issue is still under investigation, and from my point of view, "the trail is growing cold".

 

[lct]

Hehe prof + barrister here. Welcome to the club

2 minutes ago, hdmesa said:

It seem like you're trying to apply the facts from one case to another unrelated investigation. Your case was tried, the firmware was found guilty, and the sentencing was for Leica to code and release the 1.6.1 firmware update. The freezing at startup issue is still under investigation, and from my point of view, "the trail is growing cold".

Glad you are not the judge . Sentence will come with a firmware update i guess and the winner will be... We shall see .

[Guest]

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Bought a new M11 and 50mm summicron last Friday. Rangefinder very slightly misaligned and freezing issues happening mostly on startup. Turn on, no button works or screen, just red dot of death on the back. Dealer phoned me and said it’s the third customer reporting this from latest batch that came in only only Friday (June 26th), and an option would be to maybe hang on to it until Leica update the firmware again…….

Leica calling me tomorrow, but keep saying it’s their most reliable camera ever 😂. Can’t ever remember having to yank the battery out of an M6 or M10 over the years.

[IkarusJohn]

1 hour ago, km6064 said:

Bought a new M11 and 50mm summicron last Friday. Rangefinder very slightly misaligned and freezing issues happening mostly on startup. Turn on, no button works or screen, just red dot of death on the back. Dealer phoned me and said it’s the third customer reporting this from latest batch that came in only only Friday (June 26th), and an option would be to maybe hang on to it until Leica update the firmware again…….

Leica calling me tomorrow, but keep saying it’s their most reliable camera ever 😂. Can’t ever remember having to yank the battery out of an M6 or M10 over the years.

Never had to remove the battery from my M-A or update its firmware 😀

The sad thing is, the M11 just may be their most reliable digital ever …

[RMF]

3 hours ago, km6064 said:

Bought a new M11 and 50mm summicron last Friday. Rangefinder very slightly misaligned and freezing issues happening mostly on startup. Turn on, no button works or screen, just red dot of death on the back. Dealer phoned me and said it’s the third customer reporting this from latest batch that came in only only Friday (June 26th), and an option would be to maybe hang on to it until Leica update the firmware again…….

Leica calling me tomorrow, but keep saying it’s their most reliable camera ever 😂. Can’t ever remember having to yank the battery out of an M6 or M10 over the years.

@km6064 can I ask what is the manufacture date (on the box) of your M11, and did it come with firmware 1.6.1 installed from the factory/ if not what firmware, and did you update to 1.6.1?  Finally is it black or silver?

thanks

[Guest]

28 minutes ago, RMF said:

@km6064 can I ask what is the manufacture date (on the box) of your M11, and did it come with firmware 1.6.1 installed from the factory/ if not what firmware, and did you update to 1.6.1?  Finally is it black or silver?

thanks

Not sure of the date I’ll have to check on the weekend when im back to pack it up as having it picked up on Monday. Would love a replacement but not sure I can trust these Leicas no matter how much i like shooting with an M.

Came with 1.6.1 installed out the box, and its a black one.

[Guest]

Just update for anyone interested (sorry for those not), Leica UK manager gave me a call, tried to give me a few reassurances, seems to think the latest firmware is good and not causing the problems, and in fact may be a small number of units from latest batch with hardware/component problem, which was surprising to hear him say. Assured me the number is single digits and that if i asked for a replacement would next to guarantee there will be no issues, and that i had been very unlucky. Going to get a replacement and see but still pretty unsure tbh

 

Really wish Leica had a proper rangefinder competitor, anyone here know how to make cameras? Ha

[Kiwimac]

I have had my M11 for a few days and it has not yet frozen.

 

However there have been some odd things.

 

1. I set the Quick Menu. It randomly vanished
2. I set the copyright and artist text, vanished
3. I turned auto review off. yet it has returned at 1 second 3 times despite being turned to off again after each time
4. It (once so far) randomly switched off and closed the shutter despite being only switched on 20 seconds prior

[jdlaing]

22 minutes ago, Kiwimac said:

I have had my M11 for a few days and it has not yet frozen.

 

However there have been some odd things.

 

1. I set the Quick Menu. It randomly vanished
2. I set the copyright and artist text, vanished
3. I turned auto review off. yet it has returned at 1 second 3 times despite being turned to off again after each time
4. It (once so far) randomly switched off and closed the shutter despite being only switched on 20 seconds prior

May I ask if you remove that battery when not using the camera?

[lct]

 

34 minutes ago, Kiwimac said:

[...] I turned auto review off. yet it has returned at 1 second 3 times despite being turned to off again after each time [...]

Sounds like the default user profile is activated. You may wish to set up a custom profile to keep your settings in memory (main menu, page 4, "User Profile").

Edited June 26, 2023 by lct

[chris_tribble]

On 6/23/2023 at 9:31 AM, km6064 said:

Really wish Leica had a proper rangefinder competitor, anyone here know how to make cameras? Ha

There’s a company that makes something called an M10-R.

The name escapes me …

[Kiwimac]

8 hours ago, jdlaing said:

May I ask if you remove that battery when not using the camera?

I did. I put the grip on and it’s helpful to have the battery on its safety stop so that the grip aligns correctly for battery removal. 

[Kiwimac]

8 hours ago, lct said:

 

Sounds like the default user profile is activated. You may wish to set up a custom profile to keep your settings in memory (main menu, page 4, "User Profile").

Ah. I’d assumed the default profile simply remained where it was set. Does it not?

[lct]

1 hour ago, Kiwimac said:

I’d assumed the default profile simply remained where it was set. Does it not?

The default profile (including 1 s. auto review) deactivates by itself if you change anything in its settings (auto review off in your example). The changed setting (auto review off) is kept in memory but it doesn't remain so if you activate the default profile again because the camera reverts to the default setting (1 s.) this way.

[hdmesa]

^ To further elaborate – when you save a custom profile, the second you change any camera setting, it's no longer that profile, it's just everything your profile had plus your new setting. This new combination of settings is moved back to being called "Default".

I think it would make much more sense for the to see a "+" symbol next to the profile you had selected when you changed something. That way you know your current settings are based on that profile, but it also tells you that you made changes. Many cameras have an option to autosave any changes to the current selected profile, but I'm not sure if Leica offers that.

Edited June 26, 2023 by hdmesa

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[lct]

On 6/27/2023 at 1:25 AM, hdmesa said:

when you save a custom profile, the second you change any camera setting, it's no longer that profile, it's just everything your profile had plus your new setting. This new combination of settings is moved back to being called "Default".

Not to mistake for the default user profile which cannot be modified by the user. Any idea where to find this "Default" wording BTW? Just curious.