Digital scanning with M11 possible? Which lens?

[ymc226]

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I want to start with B&W 35mm film again (Tri-X or HP5+) and develop at home using HC110 and Petersen tanks as these are readily available.  Unfortunately I did not plan ahead and consigned my SL and SL2 last year so have to use the M11.  Viewing a Negative Supply video, a 35mm DSLR with a 60mm lens (I assume a macro) was used in tether with capture by using the keyboard.

I would like the same process if possible with live view via tether confirm negative position and focus on the computer screen and capture by pressing a keyboard key without potentially causing camera shake by pressing the release button directly.

If the M11, cannot be used this way, I would have to get another camera.  Would another 60MP camera be better than lesser MP cameras at this negative size level or would a 40MP or 24MP camera work just as well?  I don't plan on going back to medium format.  

If the M11 can be used, can I use the Leica Macro-Adapter M (14652) with my 90mm ASPH Summicron?  The adapter specs state a maximum reproduction ratio of 1:2 but recommendations on the internet state one needs to attain a 1:1 ratio.  If the latter is true, than I may need to look at another camera/lens system.

[LocalHero1953]

I use a Apo-Macro-Elmarit-R 100 plus the ELPRO adaptor on my SL2-S, which gives 1:1 for 35mm negatives. It should work equally well with the M11. In your shoes I would use the Visoflex for focusing.

I started by using the multishot mode, which generated large files, but for 35mm film scanning I think that is OTT - the 24mp I get in normal mode from the SL2-S is more than good enough.

[Photoworks]

Leica makes a 90mm Macro lens that is very good , it will need the macro adapter.

The summicron 90 is not optimized for 1:1, it is not recommended for this.

Laowa 85mm f/5.6 2x Ultra Macro APO 

there are few other lens option you can use on the M11.

You can do tether in capture one that is quite good, you can do live view in C1P but it is not the best, little delay and lower res feed with make focusing difficult. the camera live view option is best in your case.

Analogue Toolbox for Capture One  is free and beta , https://www.facebook.com/groups/141662290513120

it is similar to Negative Lab Pro for Lightroom.

to focus I would mount a camera in a sliding rail, it is much more precise then using the lens turn. https://www.amazon.com/DSLRKIT-Focusing-Slider-Updated-Version/dp/B007L41QZG/ref=sr_1_16?crid=20COMPH7ZHMXV&keywords=fotomate+macro+rail+slider&qid=1671405527&sprefix=fotomate%2Caps%2C101&sr=8-16

 

I use a flash light and a plexiglass sheet and negative supply frame that holds film flat, but this days there are many other companies at lower price.

[j453]

Hey there,

In my opinion actually the easiest option and using M11 is using Screw Mount Leica/Leitz lenses.

 

Option A

- 5cm Elmar f3.5

- LTM/M39 Adapter to M-Mount

- Leitz BELUN Hilfsgerät (Mount + Tube)

 

Option B

- 9cm Elmar f4.0

- LTM/M39 Adapter to M-Mount

- Leitz BELUN Hilfsgerät Tube

- Tripod or Repro

 

Option A - assemble the lens with adapter + tube to any M, set is up on the mount, leave focus at infintiy, set aperture on f8.0 and just go.

Option B - the 9cm Elmar f4.0 often is just a cheaper lens to find, usually below 100€ and it is similar to the 90mm Makro-M.

 

 

The 5cm Elmar 3.5 M39 is crazy sharp for its age, sharpness in my opinion at 3.5 is similar to Summilux-M 50mm f1.4 ASPH shot at 1.4.

 

Currently most of the time I use my SL2 with the Sigma 105mm 2.8 Makro and a Repro-Mount as I scan some of the negatives in multi shot at 187 Megapixel in addition.

Film stock as the black & white ADOX CMS 20 II PRO is at 187 Megapixel still not at its limit.

 

Using an old Leitz Elmar 5cm f3.5 with the BELUN Hilfsgerät on the Leica M11 has a special feeling, the legendary 50mm on the state of the art digital M.

Just did a test shot of a ADOX CMS 20 II PRO negative I still have to digitalize to add it to my posting. (Option A)

Took me 5 Min to set it up... it is sooo easy!

 

Looking forward to your feedback and all the best.

Andre Vehring / j453

 

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[dscdsc]

On my M11 I use a 90 summarit with ELPRO filter

[MrPaulK]

Apo-macro-Elmarit-R 100 with bellows. I’ve had some trouble with wired live view with using small or medium DNG  I gotta check if the new firmware fixes that (hope so!). Setup works great. I use electronic shutter usually 

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[jakontil]

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1 hour ago, MrPaulK said:

Apo-macro-Elmarit-R 100 with bellows. I’ve had some trouble with wired live view with using small or medium DNG  I gotta check if the new firmware fixes that (hope so!). Setup works great. I use electronic shutter usually 

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4 hours ago, j453 said:

Hey there,

In my opinion actually the easiest option and using M11 is using Screw Mount Leica/Leitz lenses.

 

Option A

- 5cm Elmar f3.5

- LTM/M39 Adapter to M-Mount

- Leitz BELUN Hilfsgerät (Mount + Tube)

 

Option B

- 9cm Elmar f4.0

- LTM/M39 Adapter to M-Mount

- Leitz BELUN Hilfsgerät Tube

- Tripod or Repro

 

Option A - assemble the lens with adapter + tube to any M, set is up on the mount, leave focus at infintiy, set aperture on f8.0 and just go.

Option B - the 9cm Elmar f4.0 often is just a cheaper lens to find, usually below 100€ and it is similar to the 90mm Makro-M.

 

 

The 5cm Elmar 3.5 M39 is crazy sharp for its age, sharpness in my opinion at 3.5 is similar to Summilux-M 50mm f1.4 ASPH shot at 1.4.

 

Currently most of the time I use my SL2 with the Sigma 105mm 2.8 Makro and a Repro-Mount as I scan some of the negatives in multi shot at 187 Megapixel in addition.

Film stock as the black & white ADOX CMS 20 II PRO is at 187 Megapixel still not at its limit.

 

Using an old Leitz Elmar 5cm f3.5 with the BELUN Hilfsgerät on the Leica M11 has a special feeling, the legendary 50mm on the state of the art digital M.

Just did a test shot of a ADOX CMS 20 II PRO negative I still have to digitalize to add it to my posting. (Option A)

Took me 5 Min to set it up... it is sooo easy!

 

Looking forward to your feedback and all the best.

Andre Vehring / j453

 

you guys have done well and very neat set up! so inspiring... so far i only used EFH film holder with viltrox led and tripod lol.. at times i still prefer my epson or plustek for consistency but slr scanning come in handy occasionally just love seeing the setup

[sdk]

The Zeiss 100mm/2 Marko Planar ZF with Nikon PN-11 extension tube is very good for 1:1 imaging. You would also need a Nikon F to M mount adapter like the one made by  Novoflex. The Zeiss 50mm/2 is not suitable because of field curvature (you cannot focus corners and the center of a negative at the same distance, even f/11 does not correct this). The 100mm/2 by contrast is a flat-field lens. Aperture f/5.6 is probably the optimum for negative captures.

Edited December 19, 2022 by sdk

[Photoworks]

10 hours ago, dscdsc said:

On my M11 I use a 90 summarit with ELPRO filter

Does it do 1:1 ?

[charlesphoto99]

One thing I've found with my setup (Nikon D850 w/modern Tokina 100mm macro) is that after awhile I started to experience slippage on the lens as it's permanently mounted downward (the D850 is used exclusively for scanning). The AF of the Tokina takes care of that brilliantly, and when doing production, is a lot easier than manual focusing each frame. Of course, with Leica lenses one may not have that issue of slippage. 

I tried my M10M as a scanning body with same lens and Nikon adapter, but didn't feel as if it brought anything more than the D850 in terms of image quality. Also a lot more difficult to use. Something to be said for tethering... so the M11 would be better in that regards. 

[MrPaulK]

7 minutes ago, charlesphoto99 said:

One thing I've found with my setup (Nikon D850 w/modern Tokina 100mm macro) is that after awhile I started to experience slippage on the lens as it's permanently mounted downward (the D850 is used exclusively for scanning). The AF of the Tokina takes care of that brilliantly, and when doing production, is a lot easier than manual focusing each frame. Of course, with Leica lenses one may not have that issue of slippage. 

I tried my M10M as a scanning body with same lens and Nikon adapter, but didn't feel as if it brought anything more than the D850 in terms of image quality. Also a lot more difficult to use. Something to be said for tethering... so the M11 would be better in that regards. 

The bellows I'm using with the elmarit 100 (which has no focusing helical) does actually get some slippage downward when it is compressed some; if I were scanning 8x10 it would definitely be a problem. Its not a problem for 35mm or MF. I've not figured out a wait to 'tighten' the focus lock.  There is a lock for the rail position, but not the focus (there are two adjustments, one is a macro-rail, the other is focus). I could of course just add something. TBF, i've not spent a lot of effort on it, as I'm mostly scanning 35mm and MF.

Edited December 19, 2022 by MrPaulK

[LocalHero1953]

I use a Leica 24-90SL to scan 5x4 negatives. The zoom on that lens extends easily by gravity. Fortunately the best setting is at 90mm.

[ymc226]

Thank you all for you replies and suggestions  I will study all the recommendations regarding lens suggestions and set ups as you have been very helpful.  Have just ordered a scanning kit from Negative Supply which should arrive in 3 weeks and am very excited as I have not shot film since about the year I got my M9P, around 2010.  I have never shot color print film ever.  My daughter is visiting for the holidays who just started art school and will be taking her to the local photo store, Freestyle Photo to buy some color film today.  Just dug up my old Seikonic Twinmate meter and have my M3, M2 and M4 to use.  They all have rapid loader kits installed but I will have to read up on how to load film again.  LOL.  

[shawn2nd]

Can the focus aid on the M11 somehow zoom in further? I have mine set to manual using the extra button near the shutter, but I feel I can't get zoomed in enough to see if I really have the grain in focus. To date, I've scanned 35mm negatives with an old Nikon D5100, which I believe could zoom in on the live view up to 150%? But there it was super easy to see if I had the grain in focus or not. 

[shawn2nd]

14 minutes ago, shawn2nd said:

Can the focus aid on the M11 somehow zoom in further? I have mine set to manual using the extra button near the shutter, but I feel I can't get zoomed in enough to see if I really have the grain in focus. To date, I've scanned 35mm negatives with an old Nikon D5100, which I believe could zoom in on the live view up to 150%? But there it was super easy to see if I had the grain in focus or not. 

Here's my control, the left is the old D5100 scanned about a week ago, the right is the M11 scanned about 2 hours ago. Same lens (Novoflex F to M adapter in use), same light source. The D5100 looks sharper to me lol, but I really feel this is only due to me not being able to get in as close in the live view 😞 Am I missing something here? Also ignore the f2.8 on the M11 shot, it was also manually set to f8 but with the adapter obviously the encoding doesn't work. 

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Edited July 12, 2024 by shawn2nd

[shawn2nd]

1 hour ago, shawn2nd said:

Can the focus aid on the M11 somehow zoom in further? I have mine set to manual using the extra button near the shutter, but I feel I can't get zoomed in enough to see if I really have the grain in focus. To date, I've scanned 35mm negatives with an old Nikon D5100, which I believe could zoom in on the live view up to 150%? But there it was super easy to see if I had the grain in focus or not. 

Nevermind, found out you can dial in with the thumbwheel lol. Still don't notice much of a difference though between the Nikon and the M11. I guess 35mm on any given lens can only resolve so much before really no differences in quality can be achieved. 

[Fritz Fritz]

I use my M11 with 50mm Summicron and this extension tube:

https://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/1443902-REG/novoflex_lem_vis_iii_adapter_for_visoflex_ii_iii.html

I scan probably 2 rolls a week with it and it works flawlessly. 
 

In order to make this work for you you’ll have to do gross focus with a copy stand, and then fine focus with the lens. I use electronic shutter, and the Leica Fotos app as a remote trigger. 
 

Also for the diehards — this extension tube is made in Germany.