Brand new MP/M-A/M6 film scratches [Merged]

[LuckySquirrel]

Advertisement (gone after registration)

3 hours ago, logan2z said:

Right, probably at least partly the motivation behind the Leica watch.

CameraWest, who owns the Leica Store in San Francisco and has two other camera stores in California, recently started a retail watch business to cater to its watch-loving customers.

https://www.cwwatchshop.com/

 

 

Neat! I had no idea about this, thanks for sharing!

[Huss]

There have been complaints that the Leica watches scratch the inside of their bezels.

[sanadsaad]

Thinking of sacrificing a roll to check mine before I start taking pictures. 

[delta100]

I had this problem way back in 2010!! Come on Leica sought the problem out. The only way to go is a no screw pressure plate as used on the old M6. Leica changed the plate way back and the problem was solved. The problem for me had been scratches on the cell side of the film and not the emulsion side.

Change the plate and problem over.

Edited February 4, 2023 by delta100

[Steve Ricoh]

39 minutes ago, delta100 said:

I had this problem way back in 2010!! Come on Leica sought the problem out. The only way to go is a no screw pressure plate as used on the old M6. Leica changed the plate way back and the problem was solved. The problem for me had been scratches on the cell side of the film and not the emulsion side.

Change the plate and problem over.

That being so, why wasn't the old M6 a scratcher!

[mshchem]

Welcome, dear visitor! As registered member you'd see an image here…

Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members!

[mshchem]

Advertisement (gone after registration)

M6ttl from 1999, no exposed screws

[logan2z]

I don't think there's anything inherently wrong with the pressure plates with visible screws.  I have a 2017 M-A with such a pressure plate and it's never scratched film.  I do wonder why Leica moved away from the screw-less pressure plates, though.

[Huss]

1 hour ago, logan2z said:

I don't think there's anything inherently wrong with the pressure plates with visible screws.  I have a 2017 M-A with such a pressure plate and it's never scratched film.  I do wonder why Leica moved away from the screw-less pressure plates, though.

Yup, my M-A and MP have the screws and they don't scratch.

[lmans]

My MA scratchless too

[Emtsoh]

1 hour ago, lmans said:

My MA scratchless too

Same here. 

M-A bought new, many years ago.

No scratches found after few thousand pictures developed (at home).

[Fotoklaus]

vor 14 Stunden schrieb delta100:

I had this problem way back in 2010!! Come on Leica sought the problem out. The only way to go is a no screw pressure plate as used on the old M6. Leica changed the plate way back and the problem was solved. The problem for me had been scratches on the cell side of the film and not the emulsion side.

Change the plate and problem over.

The screws are OUTISIDE the area, where the film touches the plate. They CANNOT be the the reason for scratching the filmin the shown areas INSIDE the picture.

[Matlock]

4 minutes ago, Fotoklaus said:

The screws are OUTISIDE the area, where the film touches the plate. They CANNOT be the the reason for scratching the filmin the shown areas INSIDE the picture.

That's not quite true, one set of screws are outside the frame area but the other set just inside the frame area. But I agree that they are not the cause of the scratches. Blaming them has caused a lot of rather spurious posts and has done nothing to resolve the issue. Sadly that is the way of such forums as this.

[delta100]

For me changing the plate fixed the problem. I sent the negs to Leica Germany and Leica made the decision to remove the plate for a screw less one. Since 2010 I have had no problems. Thankyou Leica Service Department.

You have no need to send the film off to a lab or even use a lens on the camera. Just load the film and click off 36exp's and then rewind but remember not to wind all the film into the cassette leave the tail of the film on the outside of the cassette. Take the film cassette out and pull the tail out, looking at the film in good light you should be able see any problem on the cell side of the film. Good Luck! 

Edited February 5, 2023 by delta100

[colint544]

11 hours ago, logan2z said:

I don't think there's anything inherently wrong with the pressure plates with visible screws.  I have a 2017 M-A with such a pressure plate and it's never scratched film.  I do wonder why Leica moved away from the screw-less pressure plates, though.

I've wondered that too. There will be a reason, and I suspect it's maybe that it's easier to manufacture or service the pressure plate. The benefit of the change in design, in other words, is for the manufacturer, rather than the customer.

[logan2z]

32 minutes ago, colint544 said:

The benefit of the change in design, in other words, is for the manufacturer, rather than the customer.

Most likely.

I recently bought an M2 that was given a complete overhaul in Wetzlar just before I purchased it.  The list of completed items includes 'Replace pressure plate'. It now has the pressure plate with screws and it does not scratch film. 

[hdmesa]

The new design pressure plates (with the screws) could be slightly tighter against the film than the old plates – perhaps a design choice to provide better film flatness. If so, any variance in the pressure plate screw mounting point height, flatness of rear door, etc., could cause too much pressure to be applied to the film. This could be why some units are fine with the new pressure plate, but some find relief from scratching with the old plate design (or the relief could have simply come from removing and reinstalling a new pressure plate more tightly).

Has anyone who has been experiencing scratches checked to make sure the pressure plate screws are tight? Have you tried removing the pressure plate and check the mounting points and/or the screws themselves to see if there might be a burr or some other obstruction preventing one or more of the screws from fully seating the pressure plate against the mount?

[earleygallery]

1 hour ago, hdmesa said:

The new design pressure plates (with the screws) could be slightly tighter against the film than the old plates – perhaps a design choice to provide better film flatness.

 

This isn't how the pressure plate works - it presses up against the 'film guide rails' that run above and below the film path creating a thin slot to allow the film to travel freely but also keeping it as flat as it needs to be.

I have said many times I'm not sure that these scratcher cameras are down to the pressure plates but some other defect somewhere. On the M there are a few points where the film runs that cannot be seen and would seem more likely (given that nobody so far has reported finding a sharp point on the pressure plates and it would have to be pretty obvious to be able to scratch the film).

[LuckySquirrel]

So I ended up ordering this Shueido M2, a Cameraworks RLK, and a Keks KM02. Pretty stoked and can't wait to start using it! I also put my name on a few wait lists for a BP MP in the future 🙂.

[Advertisement]

Hallo,

Look here: Leica M

[Matlock]

10 hours ago, earleygallery said:

This isn't how the pressure plate works - it presses up against the 'film guide rails' that run above and below the film path creating a thin slot to allow the film to travel freely but also keeping it as flat as it needs to be.

I have said many times I'm not sure that these scratcher cameras are down to the pressure plates but some other defect somewhere. On the M there are a few points where the film runs that cannot be seen and would seem more likely (given that nobody so far has reported finding a sharp point on the pressure plates and it would have to be pretty obvious to be able to scratch the film).

Sadly enough people have got it into their heads that the pressure plate is to blame and that now is, in their view, the only answer. It is quite obvious that the plate is not to blame but no one will now accept that. Several have claimed that the screws are the culprits and then show pictures of scratches that don't match up to the screw line. Lost cause I am afraid.