Brand new MP/M-A/M6 film scratches [Merged]

[williamj]

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Thanks Huss.
 

The dud number keeps growing. This is heading from marketing genius to PR disaster. 

[lmans]

Can you include my MA too…, no issues. So 13 with no issue. 

[Huss]

7 minutes ago, lmans said:

Can you include my MA too…, no issues. So 13 with no issue. 

When did you buy it?  This is for new cameras.

[Erato]

3 hours ago, Huss said:

Luckysquirell’s new MP is a film scratcher.  Now counting all new film Ms because williamj will otherwise think there is a conspiracy here.

12 ok, 6 not. 

33% failure rate.

Hi Huss,

I'd like to suggest that you might want to exclude the M-A and MP due to different batch perspectives.

 

All the best,

Erato

[Huss]

We could bring it back to just the new M6, but let's be honest they all use the same parts so as long as they are recent builds.

Anyway....  I've had the Zeiss Ikon ZM, the CV Bessa and the CLE.  As well as a Nikon S2 but that doesn't really count though as diff lens mount (nice camera!).  And I like the Leica Ms so much more than the others there is no comparison.  Which is why I/we stick with them.  But c'mon Leica, make it easier on us!

[LuckySquirrel]

Apologies if this is a very simple question (new to analog), but is the expectation that after shooting a roll, there should be absolutely no scratching at all on the cell side of the film (no matter how thin)?

I can always shoot a roll and there's a local lab that develops color with a 1-2 day turnaround time. If the scratches don't show on the negatives or at-home scans, is it something that I should concern myself with? Or just chalk it up to "nothing is perfect" and potentially have the pressure plate replaced with a screw less version at a future CLA?

[Mikep996]

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"but is the expectation that after shooting a roll, there should be absolutely no scratching at all on the cell side of the film (no matter how thin)?"

YES, that is the expectation.  There should be absolutely no scratching of film!!  I have shot with just about every brand of 35mm film camera that was available back in the day and developed all my own film (color and BW).  I never had a camera that scratched film, including the three other film Leicas I owned/used at various times and the M6 that I still own.

IOW, if the camera actually scratches film in any way and it is not an obvious piece of grit that somehow got in when the back/bottom was opened (and can be easily removed), the camera is defective.

 

Edited January 15, 2023 by Mikep996

[LuckySquirrel]

1 hour ago, Mikep996 said:

YES, that is the expectation.  There should be absolutely no scratching of film!!  I have shot with just about every brand of 35mm film camera that was available back in the day and developed all my own film (color and BW).  I never had a camera that scratched film, including the three other film Leicas I owned/used at various times and the M6 that I still own.

IOW, if the camera actually scratches film in any way and it is not an obvious piece of grit that somehow got in when the back/bottom was opened (and can be easily removed), the camera is defective.

 

Thank you for the insight! The camera has only been opened a handful of times inside my house since it arrived this past week (and I wiped down the surface I was opening it on just to be safe). I also tried cleaning the pressure plate with a lens wipe and using a rocket air blaster to make sure there wasn't anything somehow left over from manufacturing. I put a third roll through it (this time Tri-X) and had the same scratch in the same location.

Unfortunately looks like I will need to try to get it repaired/replaced. Depending on how long the repair will take I may need to look at a M2/M4 that has recently been CLA'd...but I don't know if my wife will be all too happy about it!

[dpitt]

6 hours ago, LuckySquirrel said:

 I put a third roll through it (this time Tri-X) and had the same scratch in the same location.

Unfortunately looks like I will need to try to get it repaired/replaced. Depending on how long the repair will take I may need to look at a M2/M4 that has recently been CLA'd...but I don't know if my wife will be all too happy about it!

It is important that the scratch is at the same location. This makes we can rule out any accidental dust or so and even dust that is inside the roll of flim. Conclusion is that your camera is defective.

[250swb]

55 minutes ago, dpitt said:

It is important that the scratch is at the same location. This makes we can rule out any accidental dust or so and even dust that is inside the roll of flim. Conclusion is that your camera is defective.

Or a faulty batch of film, let's not jump to conclusions.

Edited January 15, 2023 by 250swb

[LocalHero1953]

Question for those who know.....

Does film (the scratchable part) touch the camera anywhere other than the pressure plate? (and the take-up spool, and cogs).
In my M4, I can see two bars either side of the film window that the film goes under, but I can't see if the film touches them.

[Guest]

14 hours ago, Huss said:

When did you buy it?  This is for new cameras.

The M-A I bought in October 2022 (produced in July 2022) scratched the film badly. Leica admitted about this issue being real and promptly fixed it. 

[250swb]

18 hours ago, Huss said:

Luckysquirell’s new MP is a film scratcher.  Now counting all new film Ms because williamj will otherwise think there is a conspiracy here.

12 ok, 6 not. 

33% failure rate.

Since you've been involved in whipping up a storm the certainty that the scratch has been done by the camera has hit a record 99%, nobody is reporting with any humility or doubt that it may have been themselves, or the lab, or a batch of film, or 'I'll go back and try again', you have removed the doubt, well done, you've created your own conspiracy. Even within an epidemic of cameras scratching film (or so it seems), it's still misleading and unscientific to assume every scratched film is caused by the camera. 

Edited January 15, 2023 by 250swb

[Huss]

4 minutes ago, 250swb said:

Since you've been involved in whipping up a storm the certainty that the scratch has been done by the camera has hit a record 99%, nobody is reporting with any humility or doubt that it may have been themselves, or the lab, or a batch of film, or 'I'll go back and try again', you have removed the doubt, well done, you've created your own conspiracy. Even within an epidemic of cameras scratching film (or so it seems), it's still misleading and unscientific to assume every scratched film is caused by the camera. 

Ahhh the deflection!  Well done!  Of course it can’t be Leica! 
same old fan boi excuses..

[Huss]

1 hour ago, Garantenstellung said:

The M-A I bought in October 2022 (produced in July 2022) scratched the film badly. Leica admitted about this issue being real and promptly fixed it. 

250swb says u and Leica are wrong and it was something else.  Or.. Leica is in on this conspiracy!

good to know your scratcher was acknowledged and fixed.  I’ll add it to the list noting July production.

[Huss]

18 hours ago, Huss said:

Luckysquirell’s new MP is a film scratcher.  Now counting all new film Ms because williamj will otherwise think there is a conspiracy here.

12 ok, 6 not. 

33% failure rate.

A July 2022 production MA was reported as a scratcher and fixed by Leica.  Added but prod date noted as we are trying to keep this list ‘current’ not going back years.

12 ok, 7 not.

[250swb]

9 minutes ago, Huss said:

Ahhh the deflection!  Well done!  Of course it can’t be Leica! 
same old fan boi excuses..

That isn't what I said is it. I accept there seem to be a lot of faulty cameras, I dislike the certainty that the cause is always the camera. If you report it to Leica they'll say 'yes we are getting reports of scratches, please send it back'. They won't question whether it is another other culprit, so they'll change the the pressure plate and it will be cured, and in the intervening time everything else will have moved on, there will be new batches of film, the bit of grit got cleared , the labs rollers will have been cleaned, etc.

Edited January 15, 2023 by 250swb

[Huss]

1 minute ago, 250swb said:

That isn't what I said is it. I accept there seem to be a lot of faulty cameras, I dislike the certainty that the cause is always the camera. If you report it to Leica they'll say 'yes we are getting reports of scratches, please send it back'. They won't question whether it is another other culprit, so they'll change the the pressure plate and it will be cured, and in the intervening time everything else will have moved on, there will be new batches of film, the bit of grit got cleared when the pressure plate was replaced, the labs rollers will have been cleaned, etc.

Amazing that grit only gets into Leica cameras.  Brand new ones to boot.

 

[250swb]

6 minutes ago, Huss said:

Amazing that grit only gets into Leica cameras.  Brand new ones to boot.

 

Well I tripped myself up, I edited a long sentence and left too much of the old sentence, I've changed it for you now but I was meaning to say bit of grit got cleared from the changing bag, but then realised not many people in these scratching threads seem to be processing their own film (why is that?)so my comment became irrelevant.

Edited January 15, 2023 by 250swb

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Hallo,

Look here: Leica M

[oldwino]

4 hours ago, 250swb said:

Or a faulty batch of film, let's not jump to conclusions.

Three rolls, from two different manufacturers, run through the same camera, producing a scratch at the same exact location every time, providing more rigorous and verifiable evidence (something you've complained about the lack of in other threads)...and yet this is your reply?

I will take this as a sort of a joke statement, otherwise is is kind of sad.