Leica SL2-S brand new with M-L Adapter for under $4K, Offer expires TONIGHT. Buy it or not?

[lencap]

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Lens size was part of my reason for shifting away from the SL line as well.  Peter Karbe made it very clear in his video interviews that Leica is "standardizing" it's lens design.  The implication is that by having very similar dimensions across various focal lengths Leica can use the servos and other internal electronics across many different lenses, reducing costs.  That works for Leica's economics, and probably for user "haptics" as the lenses will feel similar in hand and actual use.  The downside is that traditionally smaller lenses, like 50mm, will be larger than on other lines (like the M) since the autofocus mechanics are needed regardless of the focal length of the lens.  There is little doubt that the MTF charts of the newest lenses are very impressive, but the downside is weight.

I sympathize with the CL/TL owners who tried to get Leica lens quality in a smaller package, only to find that supporting micro four thirds systems at a likely lower profit margin and certainly less volume diverts Leica from high margin and high demand products.  I guess if I were a Leica CEO devoting assets to the new M6, which will also spur sales of high priced M lenses, makes sense compared to ploughing more money/assets/product development into a lower margin product line.  And that same executive team likely endorses having similar "shells" for autofocusing L mount lenses - same idea: reduce development and parts costs/complexity while keeping margins at target levels.

We'll see how it works out over the coming years.  For me the original Q body with a F/1.7 lens computer corrected to create very low distortion with macro capability, and supplied in a full frame sensor body for just about the same price as a 28mm M prime lens was, and still is, a "no brainer".  Again, from my perspective, having a SL body that has a bright EVF in all conditions that never needs alignment, and can be easily used to grab critical focus with any focal length M lens was a step up from the traditional M rangefinder capability, if "getting the shot on the first attempt" in all conditions is the requirement.  Frankly, I love the M concept and still would enjoy shooting with it, but with cataract and poor night vision it's very difficult to grab critical focus, which is why I sold my M body cameras.  What's the point of shooting with a Summilux and stopping down to f/4.0 to be sure the subject is in focus?  And beyond 50mm or so the focus patch is so small that my keeper rate for sharp images was less than 25%.

I think that's why they are moving to autofocus lenses and SL bodies.  The problem is that the differences between contrast and phase detection do impact time to focus and accuracy.  That's an issue that Leica is improving, but still has more work to do to match the industry leaders.  And, I'd bet, Leica isn't anxious to abandon their methodology and move to a somewhat faster solution.

That's why I posted initially.  Decades ago with film Leica had no equal.  Today's digital sensors change rapidly and "obsoleteness" will likely force Leica, and everyone else, to shorten product cycles, adding to higher development costs, shorter time to recoup the initial investment, and a strained balance sheet.  Leica will do better than most, but the issues are real and accelerating.  I truly hope it works out, but it's hard to justify a $12K entry level M11 and 50mm Summicron lens for M club entry.

[rtai]

I have the SL2 with the 24-90 zoom. The photos I get are outstanding. I bought and sold several SL lenses including the 50mm Summilux SL. I can’t picture myself walking 10 kilometres with the SL2 with even one of those monsters let alone a 3 lens kit. I don’t think I can do 3 blocks. What initially attracted me to the SL2 was the prospect of using M lenses because the M10 with the external EVF had limitations. I’ll just do that and no SL lenses for me. I know the Sigmas are great but they just make me regret not getting E mount even more or the cheaper but capable Panasonic L system.

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The Leica Q3 is available for pre-order at B&H Photo Video and Adorama

[lencap]

I enjoyed the images my SL 601 and 24-90 provided, but the weight got to me.  I left the camera home more than I care to admit.  The other issue was balance.  With the 24-90 mounted on the SL the camera never balanced well while it was on the shoulder using the Leica strap.  The lens was too heavy and it kept the lens or camera dangling uncomfortably.  

Sadly, despite the lack of haptic or enjoyment factors, I've shifted to the iPhone 14 Pro which is always in my pocket and takes remarkably decent images with little fuss.  And when I want to share/edit/store iPhone images it's nearly instantaneous with on camera editing tools, access to iCloud for storage, and the wider net for sharing.

 

Edited December 28, 2022 by lencap

[John Smith]

You should have tried the Summicrons or some M lenses before giving up on the SL. I took some portraits of my parents over Christmas with the 35SL. Could be their last one. Glad I didn’t just use a phone. But everyone has his own needs and wants. 

Edited December 28, 2022 by John Smith

[lencap]

I tried some M lenses with an adaptor, but I still had problems getting critical focus on rapidly moving subjects.  And when the subject was more than 15 feet or so from me the keeper rate wasn't very good.  For posed images I agree with you fully - I also had the 50mm Sigma Art and that worked well too, especially with autofocus.    

I don't want to rely on an iPhone, but I haven't yet found the platform that is lightweight and provides the image quality and haptics I expect from Leica.  The CL was closest, but I have a personal bias toward FF sensors.  

Truth be told, for "heirloom" shots, I typically employ a professional photographer.  The results have been worth the expense, and I can be included in the images instead of being relegated to being the photographer all the time.  It's not a perfect solution, but it works for me.  

My photography skills are "average" despite having high end gear.  Lighting, composition and the other skills needed have been something I've tried to expand over the decades, but my nephew, a professional photographer, can get better images on an iPhone than I could using either the M or SL bodies and Leica lenses.  And when he used my Leica gear the results, without much apparent effort on his part, were far better than I could produce.  Composition, lighting and framing is second nature for him, not so much for me.  Yet, I enjoy the hobby and still try to improve, but with cataracts, and other obvious signs of aging, my days of capturing sharp images rapidly using a Summilux lens are sadly fewer than I had hoped.

[lencap]

Greetings!  It's been a while since I initiated the above topic post, but in retrospect I regret not taking advantage of the discounted special for the SL2-S including the M mount adapter.  I've played with my iPhone 14 Pro quite a bit, and for everyday tasks it does all I ask and more efficiently with minimal effort.

But as a photographic tool to allow me to savor the joy of photography it falls flat.  I take out my iPhone and shoot, but every time I capture something above the run of the mill, I wonder how much more I would have enjoyed the experience with my former SL 601 and 24-90 Zoom.  

Everything I said before remains unchanged - the Leica SL/Zoom combo is heavy, unbalanced and tiring over a long day.  But it is also a superb image creating tool, and more importantly it makes you want to create and compose.

Apparently Leica agrees since the current discount promotion requires that you buy a lens along with the SL body, and the choices/discounts are far less generous than the earlier Christmas promotion.

I visited my local dealer to check out his "previously owned" Leicas, and was surprised to find the the used price for his excellent plus rated cameras is higher than the discounted promo price that Leica offered in December.

Oh well, live and learn.  I guess following the "gut" feeling last year was worth paying attention to.  I'd still not use the SL2-S as much as my iPhone, but at least I could stare at it during the day and enjoy the artistry of its design.

 

[cj3209]

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1 hour ago, lencap said:

Greetings!  It's been a while since I initiated the above topic post, but in retrospect I regret not taking advantage of the discounted special for the SL2-S including the M mount adapter.  I've played with my iPhone 14 Pro quite a bit, and for everyday tasks it does all I ask and more efficiently with minimal effort.

But as a photographic tool to allow me to savor the joy of photography it falls flat.  I take out my iPhone and shoot, but every time I capture something above the run of the mill, I wonder how much more I would have enjoyed the experience with my former SL 601 and 24-90 Zoom.  

Everything I said before remains unchanged - the Leica SL/Zoom combo is heavy, unbalanced and tiring over a long day.  But it is also a superb image creating tool, and more importantly it makes you want to create and compose.

Apparently Leica agrees since the current discount promotion requires that you buy a lens along with the SL body, and the choices/discounts are far less generous than the earlier Christmas promotion.

I visited my local dealer to check out his "previously owned" Leicas, and was surprised to find the the used price for his excellent plus rated cameras is higher than the discounted promo price that Leica offered in December.

Oh well, live and learn.  I guess following the "gut" feeling last year was worth paying attention to.  I'd still not use the SL2-S as much as my iPhone, but at least I could stare at it during the day and enjoy the artistry of its design.

 

The SL body with the M-L adapter and a nice M lens is really compact.  No AF but the superb EVF makes it easier to MF for me.

 

Cheers!