Summicron F2.0/50mm black, ver IV but ver V design?

[Tommy Hansen]

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Summicron F2.0/50mm black (BJ. 1996) (11826), SN 3756560?

According to Leica data base this lens is a Summicron version IV, but i don't understand and need some help.

This lens:
- has a retractable lens hood
- lacks focus tab
- are 6‐bit coded
- weighs 240gr
- are manufactured 1996

If it after all is a version 4, then what is the difference to version 5?

Hope someone can bring some clarity to this.

/Tommy Hansen

Edited November 22, 2022 by Tommy Hansen

[lct]

"version 5", with built-in hood sans focus tab, is the designation the current variant of Summicron 50 non apo is usually given to distinguish it from the previous variant aka "version 4" with focus tab and sans built-in hood. v5 is not an optical version, given that both lenses have the same optical design, reason why Leica is giving both the same version 4 number. They have different Leica code numbers anyway: 
• V4: 11819 (black), 11825 (silver)
• V5: 11826 (black), 11816 (silver), 11615 (silver, 50 jahre), 11619 (silver M39), 11624 (titan), etc.

[hmzimelka]

I had the same question a few months ago.

Leica calls both Summicron 11819 and 11826 version IV, when the former is IV and the latter is V

Edited November 22, 2022 by hmzimelka

[RexGig0]

The 1979 Walter Mandler-designed optical formula did not change, so, what many users/collectors call “Version V” is, still, Version IV, according to Leica. It really is that simple.

 

Edited November 22, 2022 by RexGig0

[Tommy Hansen]

...so in other words there is no "official" version 5 and/or at least the version i refer to is the latest, non apo, version?

[lct]

14 minutes ago, Tommy Hansen said:

...so in other words there is no "official" version 5 and/or at least the version i refer to is the latest, non apo, version?

Exactly. As simple as Leica can be . 

 

[1joel1]

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The V5 is commonly known as the one with a built-in hood and lacks the focus tab. 6-bit coding was not present on any but the latter ones.

 

[lct]

15 minutes ago, Rabunmoss said:

To avoid confusion call them as

50f2 11817 (v4)

50f2 11826 (v5)

11817 is v3. Has not the same optics as v4/v5. Has no tab either.

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[UliWer]

vor 32 Minuten schrieb Rabunmoss:

To avoid confusion

... we should refrain from numbering "versions". 

[wizard]

vor 33 Minuten schrieb Rabunmoss:

To avoid confusion call them as

50f2 11817 (Type 4)

That might in fact create some confusion 🙂.

 

vor 7 Minuten schrieb lct:

11817 is v3. Has not the same optics as v4/v5.

Correct, V4, if black, is 11819.

[pippy]

1 hour ago, UliWer said:

... we should refrain from numbering "versions". 

I think that, to avoid confusion in future, Leica should start calling the v5 the 'v5'........

Philip.

Edited November 30, 2022 by pippy

[UliWer]

vor 54 Minuten schrieb pippy:

in future

If they ever bring out a "LUF Commemoration" version, they'll engrave "Version V" on the front.  

[105012]

Another option might be to call them v4a and v4b? Same optical design, differing mechanical design. Same images, different haptics/features/appearance.

[evikne]

Much the same case as with the 50mm Summilux pre-ASPH v3, which I usually just call "E46" to avoid saying v3, because some say there are only two versions of this lens; the last one has only exterior changes. 😉

Edited November 30, 2022 by evikne

[lct]

1 hour ago, evikne said:

Much the same case as with the 50mm Summilux pre-ASPH v3, which I usually just call "E46" to avoid saying v3, because some say there are only two versions of this lens; the last one has only exterior changes. 😉

Would be so simple . There are in fact (at least) two variants of v4. The first one, made in Canada, has blueish reflection and a convex focus tab ("tiger paw"). It is an early copy producing a bit more veiling flare than v5.

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The second variant, made in Germany, has a concave focus tab with reddish reflection and same IQ as v5 below.

 

[lct]

5 minutes ago, Artin said:

Actually their is a concave focus tab version that is made in Canada as well I have one

Sure but i don't know which coating it had. Easy to check the color of the reflection if you have an EVF.

[RexGig0]

The 11615, the 50 Jahre Special Edition of the Summicron-M 50mm, with 1979 optics, had an actual mechanical difference, that Erwin Puts found, when comparing it to an original-pattern Version 4. (This one commemorated 50 years/jahre of the 50mm Summicron.)

. https://photo.imx.nl/leica/lenses/lenses/page92.html

This is yet another indication that a change can be made, that is not merely cosmetic, in a Leica lens, without Leica declaring a new/different “Version.”

Edited December 6, 2022 by RexGig0

[pinchers of peril]

On 11/30/2022 at 5:16 PM, Artin said:

Kind of browny/amber colour I believe same as the current 

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Not to derail his thread but curious how you liked this lens.  I am potentially looking to purchase a copy that has a very close serial number to yours.  I currently have a Zeiss 50mm F2 planar that is great, but I've always wanted to pair Leica glass with my M6. I know there will probably not be much noticeable difference in performance but it's that itch that I need to scratch  ha ha. Thanks