We don't need a Q camera with a 35/50/75/whatever lens

[Le Chef]

Advertisement (gone after registration)

5 hours ago, Simone_DF said:

Again with the "cannibalization". People not interested in a 28mm won't buy a standard Q, the same way people that don't want to lug around 2kgs won't buy a SL+lens combo. 

Ricoh is quite successful with the GRIII (28mm) and GRIIIx (40mm), we don't hear much about the GRIIIx cannibalizing the 28mm version. On the contrary, they grew in popularity since the 40mm version was released. There's more than enough differentiation between the two focal lenghts. So much that we also see many people on the forum that have multiple cameras, the Q for 28mm and Sony/Canon/Nikon for 50mm and above. Rather than have these people buy a Canon, Leica should aim to have these people buy a Leica instead, not thinking about fantasies like "cannibalization", because people buy other brands anyway.

And, finally, customers don't have to make compromises. Companies have to make compromises, not customers. There's a whole market out there filled with excellent products, I won't compromise on anything, definitely not at Leica prices. It's up to Leica to offer something I'm willing to buy, not me "compromising" on a 6K camera.

Price points are the differentiatiors in terms of what volume might deliver. The lower the price point the greater the volume potential, and v.v. You have to understand that the GRIII is 1/5th the price of a Q2. Look then at the cost of development and cost of additional components and sku’s and the picture may change in terms of financial viability of a Q3 28 and Q3 50.

Edited November 30, 2022 by Le Chef

[Advertisement]

The Leica Q3 is available for pre-order at B&H Photo Video and Adorama

[Simone_DF]

3 hours ago, Le Chef said:

Price points are the differentiatiors in terms of what volume might deliver. The lower the price point the greater the volume potential, and v.v. You have to understand that the GRIII is 1/5th the price of a Q2. Look then at the cost of development and cost of additional components and sku’s and the picture may change in terms of financial viability of a Q3 28 and Q3 50.

Absolutely. But the fallacy in your reasoning is that you assume people will default to buy a 28mm Q because there's nothing else. I, as many other people, am not interested in 28mm at all. In short, it's either a Q with 50mm or it's another brand, the alternative is not the 28mm version.

[Le Chef]

5 hours ago, Simone_DF said:

Absolutely. But the fallacy in your reasoning is that you assume people will default to buy a 28mm Q because there's nothing else. I, as many other people, am not interested in 28mm at all. In short, it's either a Q with 50mm or it's another brand, the alternative is not the 28mm version.

Not at all. I’m sure there are many rejectors of the 28mm Q2. My point is the added cost and skus for a 50mm Q2 will increase the price of both versions to amortize the costs. Is there enough additional volume to be had from a 50mm version to cover those increased costs?

[Simone_DF]

1 hour ago, Le Chef said:

Not at all. I’m sure there are many rejectors of the 28mm Q2. My point is the added cost and skus for a 50mm Q2 will increase the price of both versions to amortize the costs. Is there enough additional volume to be had from a 50mm version to cover those increased costs?

That’s up to Leica to evaluate whether or not there will be enough demand to make a profit and also if they have the means to produce and market an additional sku. 
Last year (or was it two years ago?) there was a survey with specific questions about a future Q with a different focal length or interchangeable lenses, so I suspect Leica already knows the answer to the first question.

But the point is, telling people “there’s no need for [insert whatever] because X is enough” is pretentious bullshit

[mikeLD]

I am enjoying the variety of viewpoints here about the Q2 and its future.  I would like to interject a slightly different point of view:  One of my favorite photographers, Henri Cartier Bresson who travelled the world with his trusty Leica and shot exclusively in monochrome, made a key point: He would not shoot in color because the technology was not sufficiently mature to be able to render what he photographed since the current capability could only render a fraction of the spectrum of color needed.  Today we are in an amazing technology shift with the advent of our high-resolution digital sensors such as the 47mp on the Q2 and the 60mp on the M11.  For me, as an avid street photographer who strives to capture what Bresson called "the decisive moment", that fleeting photographic scene which will never occur again, the high mp sensor is opening a new opportunity to capture that moment, immediately preview the result and continue the hunt.  My Q2 is a wildly successful contribution to that goal with the ability to shoot both wide and telephoto like shots of high quality in that decisive moment.  I hope the Q3 will venture further ahead in this new opportunity.  As an opportunity of purpose and intention, it does not render the existing technology obsolete, but rather opens a new frontier for more exciting photography.

[Le Chef]

3 hours ago, Simone_DF said:

But the point is, telling people “there’s no need for [insert whatever] because X is enough” is pretentious bullshit

There are really two different questions going on in this thread:

1) I want a 35/50/75 mm Q2, can I have one?

2) Is there a business case for producing a 35/50/75 mm Q2?

The answer to the first is: if you don't ask the question, then the answer is always going to be "no", and may still be "no" even after you ask the question, as the answer depends on the answer to question two.

The answer to the second question can only be answered by Leica.

The rest is just mental exercising by forum members who enjoy this kind of conversation.

[Pelu2010]

Advertisement (gone after registration)

On 11/19/2022 at 12:48 AM, Herr Barnack said:

We have a significant number of Leica photographers who bemoan the fact that the Q camera users are "stuck" with a 28mm lens.  this video showcases the powerful and compelling capability of the Q camera's 28mm f/1.7 Summilux lens.

 

It’s not that we need it. 
if we would have it, I would work with one q2 and one q3 50 mm. Q2 for the wide stuff and the the 50 mm for the portraits. 
that’s what I am doing with the Sl2s. And ist ok, but if there were a q3 with a 50 mm , I would buy it. 
and yes : I do portraits with the q2 too. 
but I would like to get closer without distorting the face so much. For people with round face it’s ok, but the rest …. 
 

the second a camera comes out with this features …. I am in. 
 

at the moment I am traveling through Spain with only the q2. 
 

kind regards 

 

peter.  

[Pelu2010]

On 11/30/2022 at 8:34 PM, Le Chef said:

There are really two different questions going on in this thread:

1) I want a 35/50/75 mm Q2, can I have one?

2) Is there a business case for producing a 35/50/75 mm Q2?

The answer to the first is: if you don't ask the question, then the answer is always going to be "no", and may still be "no" even after you ask the question, as the answer depends on the answer to question two.

The answer to the second question can only be answered by Leica.

The rest is just mental exercising by forum members who enjoy this kind of conversation.

Exactly ! 
if we don’t ask for features that we encounter to be nice. 
 

i wouldn’t have thought that the q2 is such a nice Plattform. 
Wen i think back to my thoughts I had before buying. 
all the negative thoughts where gone after one day. 
 

i want to see it progress 

[Le Chef]

59 minutes ago, Leica S3 said:

The most important thing today that  leica needs to change and improve is costumer service! I don’t know another premium products company with such a bad customer service. 

Do you have statistical data to show that Leica is worse than other premium product companies? Which areas of service? Initial quality? Product failure? Service time? Customer service follow up? Which companies are you comparing Leica to?

[Lutzi]

14 hours ago, Leica S3 said:

The most important thing today that  leica needs to change and improve is costumer service! I don’t know another premium products company with such a bad customer service. 

I have always received good customer service from LEICA 👍

[Lucena]

2 hours ago, Lutzi said:

I have always received good customer service from LEICA 👍

Same for me, I would even add: excellent customer service

[Phil75]

Once bought an XV shortly after market introduction that got problems after approx. 4-5 months and got it exchanged to a new one. I didn't expect anything like that at all. 

[T25UFO]

On 12/15/2022 at 7:47 AM, Lucena said:

Same for me, I would even add: excellent customer service

I agree - excellent service both for repairs and for more general matters.  

When the 35mm APO was issued I registered for email updates on the Leica UK Online store.  I think they were receiving just one or two in each shipment at that time.  I clicked on the email link many times but was always too late and the lens was out of stock again.  One of the staff there must have noticed my multiple attempts because I received a text message early one morning to say that two more were expected that day, so I should check the website asap.  I did, and secured the last one.

I sent my thanks and discovered that the staff member had sent that text while walking into work that morning.  Personal service you wouldn't get from other major multi-national photos companies.

[DenverSteve]

I guess M shooters, have realised that a compact, M-mount, 28-70 isn't coming so complaining about the Q2 is next.  Now they/we have gone the automotive way, "This is perfect, don't change a thing, can you make it bigger?".  For me, a Q2 carried with a M with (pick your lens) is the best one-two punch I can think of.  Of course, a Q2 is far cheaper than a M11 with 28 summilux.  Consequently, it would be cheaper to carry a Q28, Q50 and Q75 than a M11 with Summilux 28, 50 & 75 in your bag.  There have been numerous people who have purchased Q cameras and sold them because the lens didn't give them focal-length satisfaction.  What I did was go back through my last several years of client work and review the focal length of the lenses used for my best selling shots.  I, surprising to me, found that 28mm was used between 20 & 30 per cent of the time.  Knowing this I felt comfortable with adding a Q2 over buying a 28mm (or 35mm) lens for my M11 when I purchased it.  No regrets.  If they came out with a Q50, I believe, it would outsell the Q2. I believe it would also, seriously, cut into (maybe decimate) Summilux 50 sales.  I also find that carrying a Q2 with CL w18-56 is almost unbeatable. 

Edited December 17, 2022 by DenverSteve

[Simone_DF]

7 hours ago, DenverSteve said:

I believe it would also, seriously, cut into (maybe decimate) Summilux 50 sales.  I also find that carrying a Q2 with CL w18-56 is almost unbeatable. 

Can you elaborate on why you think an autofocus fixed camera lens would cut into a 100% manual focus lens with no autofocus that goes on a rangefinder?

[DenverSteve]

4 hours ago, Simone_DF said:

Can you elaborate on why you think an autofocus fixed camera lens would cut into a 100% manual focus lens with no autofocus that goes on a rangefinder?

Simple pragmatic economics.  Let's say I have a M11 (I do).  Let's say I want a Summilux 50mm lens, I don't as I already have 5 Leica 50s.  However, if I did, if I could purchase a Q...3? with Summilux 50mm for, let's say $5000, the current Q2 price, and get a free attached body for that price OR, purchase a Summilux 50 for about the same price - I would go with the Q (whatever) w/Summilux 50.  I do that with the Q2 and it works great in conjunction with my M11 and other Leicas for a two/three camera combo without having to change lenses when I don't want to.  Obviously if Leica is selling Q2s to 4500+ people, those sales are taking away from other Leica sales.  I don't believe most current Q2 buyers are buying a $5000 Leica with a fixed lens because they want a fixed-lens 28mm camera. They can get that, and more, for far less with any number of other cameras and three primes if they want a world-class camera and lenses.  They are buying the Q2 because they want a Leica.  Now, following the requests from the rabble (we read it here every day) for a Q body with longer glass, those Leica sales have to come from some other Leica products.  The pool of us willing to spend $20,000 a year on Leica products, is not that large.  Your hypothesis may differ. 

[Simone_DF]

18 hours ago, DenverSteve said:

Your hypothesis may differ. 

Yes, and very much. If you want the rangerfinder experience, you have the M. 
The Q won’t give you that. It’s not a rangefinder, it has a evf and autofocus. You buy a Summilux M because you want to use it on your M11 or another mirrorless.

Likewise, people that have no interest in a rangefinder, and you can count me among them, won’t buy a rangefinder, no matter what. 
Your assumption is that people who buy a Q will also buy a M for other focal lengths and viceversa. It’s apple and oranges.

Currently we have the following options:

1. Do you want a rangefinder? Get the M

2. Do you want a 28mm and autofocus? Get the Q

3. Do you want 50mm and autofocus? Get a Sony/Canon/other brand.
That’s a whole market segment to tap into, and could lure in people who are not interested in option 1 or 2 (me, for example)

And this not even mentioning the rendering of a lens. I have 4 different 50s, and I was recently considering getting another one, go figure. Should I get a 50mm Q camera, I won’t sell them, because they would cover a different use case. 

[Lucena]

Something enters in consideration too: WEIGHT 

For many years I carried a lot of gear, had wonderful Leica lenses, Nikon pro gear for birdwatching and animal photo in general (awfully heavy...).
Nowadays I cannot carry much anylonger, I am a very tiny person and age takes its toll. 

When I purchased the Q it was because it was full frame, light and quite versatile, AND a camera I could always carry along whatever I was doing. I upgraded it to a Q2 which was even more adapted to my current needs. Of course sometimes I would miss a telephoto, but one has to make choices... and there is a thing called "move your feet", and if it doesn't work, well, give up, there are so many photo oportunities in life...

The Q2 is indeed a very good full frame camera for manual photographers (never use the AF feature) as I am. Just hate the video feature, why have it there if smartphones work well on most people's needs and if someone wants a really good video performance better buy a video cam, no?

Edited December 18, 2022 by Lucena

[Advertisement]

Hallo,

Look here: Leica Q

[Driften]

9 hours ago, Simone_DF said:

....

3. Do you want 50mm and autofocus? Get a Sony/Canon/other brand.
That’s a whole market segment to tap into, and could lure in people who are not interested in option 1 or 2 (me, for example)

And this not even mentioning the rendering of a lens. I have 4 different 50s, and I was recently considering getting another one, go figure. Should I get a 50mm Q camera, I won’t sell them, because they would cover a different use case. 

Last year option 3 was buy a CL if you wanted a light camera with lens options. The SL2 just isn't light enough for many Q/M shooters. I know I went from Q to CL to SL2-s which I then replaced with lighter cameras and now am back to the Q2 for a lighter weight Leica. But if I need something longer it's Canon right now. I can't afford a M10/M11 with glass and if I wanted more than 50mm I need IBIS which is why I sold the CL. For a walk around camera the Q2's 28 plus cropping to 35/50 covers it for me, or I move to my Canon r5/r7 where I can go up to 600mm. But the Canon's are for more action shots that isn't really Leica's area anyways. If a Q3 came out with a 50mm I might get one, but it wouldn't replace my Q2. 

[DenverSteve]

7 hours ago, Driften said:

Last year option 3 was buy a CL if you wanted a light camera with lens options. 

It still is.  Like many cameras from Sony, Leica.... many discontinued models are still available for purchase, new and used, for a long time.  The CL is still a fantastic, smaller, ICL camera from Sony.