Bought my first M3 but thinking of returning it

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Update:  The seller refunded me the cost of the camera but not shipping.  I'm just gonna move on with my life because it's not worth trying argue with him over that.  I'm not gonna put the seller on blast here, but I probably won't order from him again even though I have had some past transactions with him that went fine.

But here is the fun update:   I was looking on Craigs List for local M3s and didn't find anything but I came across a guy near me selling a 50 Summicron v4 made in Germany with a very recent and documented DAG CLA for a good price that also came with a 12585 lens hood.  I bought this with the thought that it would be a great lens to keep on my eventual M3 purchase.  I continued looking at M3s on Ebay and, IDK, the black re-painted ones just look so sexy and especially with the black Summicron.  So I ended up spending significantly more than I originally intended and bought a late model M3 with a black re-paint.  It just arrived today and it looks really nice and seems to be functioning properly.  The viewfinder is crystal clear as well.  Here are some pictures with the v4 Cron.  It's a pretty handsome combo that I hope to have for the rest of my photographic life.  Now I need to load it with a roll of Tri-x.

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[Huss]

Congrats!  heads up, you cannot use colour film in a black M3.

[mshchem]

Chrome, yes back then it was real Chrome! Since it's chrome under the paint you can still shoot Ektachrome (was Fujichrome around in 1954??). I think it's looking beautiful! Maybe buy a half case to keep it in top shape.

[RayD28]

5 hours ago, mediumformula said:

Update:  The seller refunded me the cost of the camera but not shipping.  I'm just gonna move on with my life because it's not worth trying argue with him over that.  I'm not gonna put the seller on blast here, but I probably won't order from him again even though I have had some past transactions with him that went fine.

But here is the fun update:   I was looking on Craigs List for local M3s and didn't find anything but I came across a guy near me selling a 50 Summicron v4 made in Germany with a very recent and documented DAG CLA for a good price that also came with a 12585 lens hood.  I bought this with the thought that it would be a great lens to keep on my eventual M3 purchase.  I continued looking at M3s on Ebay and, IDK, the black re-painted ones just look so sexy and especially with the black Summicron.  So I ended up spending significantly more than I originally intended and bought a late model M3 with a black re-paint.  It just arrived today and it looks really nice and seems to be functioning properly.  The viewfinder is crystal clear as well.  Here are some pictures with the v4 Cron.  It's a pretty handsome combo that I hope to have for the rest of my photographic life.  Now I need to load it with a roll of Tri-x.

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May I ask who did the repaint?

[ktmrider2]

That is a beautiful camera.  I keep lusting after a black paint M4 which I would like even more than a new MP.  Of all the Leica M cameras I have owned since 1974, I have only owned one M3 and if memory serves, it was a double stroke model.  I have owned several M2's along with new M4-2, M4-P, M6 and M6TTL.  I have to admit that I have been looking at M3's again thinking how well they work with a fast 50.

Again, beautiful camera.

[Huss]

1 hour ago, ktmrider2 said:

That is a beautiful camera.  I keep lusting after a black paint M4 which I would like even more than a new MP.  Of all the Leica M cameras I have owned since 1974, I have only owned one M3 and if memory serves, it was a double stroke model.  I have owned several M2's along with new M4-2, M4-P, M6 and M6TTL.  I have to admit that I have been looking at M3's again thinking how well they work with a fast 50.

Again, beautiful camera.

You should see how well they work with a 90!

[Michael Geschlecht]

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1 hour ago, Huss said:

You should see how well they work with a 90!

Hello Everybody,

M3's are clearly designed around 90mm lenses. And, they work very well with 135mm lenses without goggles.

And, they are quite good with 50mm lenses also. With those nice curved corners to show a person what their photo in a slide mount will look like.

The lines of the 50mm & 90mm frames show a person what is captured on the film when the lens is focused to 1 meter/40 inches.

The 135mm frame shows what is captured on the film when the lens is focused to 1.5 meters/5 feet.

All of the above at 0.91X magnification.

A 35mm lens with "goggles", has a magnification of 0.6X thru the range/viewfinder window. It focuses to 0.65 meters/26 inches.

What was the frame for 50mm lens without "goggles" becomes the frame for the 35mm lens with "goggles".  And the frame also shows what is captured by the lens when it is focused to 0.65 meters/26 inches.

0.6X magnification is quite usable with a 35mm lens.

With all of the lenses, with all of the frames: As a person focuses away from the closest setting, going to Infinity: There is more outside of the frame that is also captured on the film. Which means that a person always gets what is inside the frame in use & sometimes there is some more. This is often a "plus".

Best Regards,

Michael

Edited November 10, 2022 by Michael Geschlecht

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5 hours ago, mshchem said:

Chrome, yes back then it was real Chrome! Since it's chrome under the paint you can still shoot Ektachrome (was Fujichrome around in 1954??). I think it's looking beautiful! Maybe buy a half case to keep it in top shape.

The camera was stripped to brass and re-painted.  So there is no chrome underneath.  

Shueido in Taiwan did the re-paint and overhaul of the camera.  The repaint looks to have been nicely done - no bubbling or inconsistency.   The paint is a little more matte than on my MP which is a bit more glossy. 

I loaded a roll of Tmax 400 today and have been taking a few shots with it.  Coming from an MP this feels very familiar except for the difference in the viewfinder.  This is also my first time using this newly acquired v4 Summicron 50.  The size and weight and function of the lens is really nice.  I like the focus tab.  The lens sits perfectly on this camera.  The black on black makes it look very stealthy.  Darth Vader look. 

On a side note - I'm surprised that M3s are so much less expensive than M6s.  It's probably a combination of not having a light meter and the modern preference for 35mm and wider lenses that the M3 makes prohibitive.  But this thing feels just as nice as my 3 year old MP - without a meter and less than half the cost.  As an almost exclusively 50mm shooter I don't see how the MA could compete with this. 

[Steve_4802]

That’s the 50mm I have. I often think “the summilux would be nice, as I really could use that extra stop when indoors”, but, the v4 summicron is just perfect (for a summicron). Super compact too. Why they ever went to a non-tabbed version for v5 baffles me. If I ever am in need of buying another 50 summicron it will be the v4. I very much dislike the aesthetic of the summilux too; not just the size which is a necessity for the larger aperture, but the look with that in built hood. The retro version currently on the market for the last few years is killer good looking and would be my preference (for summilux) and I would certainly take over the v4 summicron if money was no object. That said, even the prettier and current non tabbed summicron would be no match in useability without the tab, the focus throw in the v4 is just ideal for tabbed.

Great lens and very cool camera. You say the BP M3 was about half the cost of new MP, so comparable to about the cost of vintage m6 too?

[cj3209]

On 11/9/2022 at 9:24 PM, mediumformula said:

As an almost exclusively 50mm shooter I don't see how the MA could compete with this. 

LOL, the same as the new M6 competing with the older/discontinued M6s:  you can buy one new.  Although admittedly, you're really paying a premium to buy new.

Edited November 14, 2022 by cj3209

[mediumformula]

19 hours ago, Steve_4802 said:

Great lens and very cool camera. You say the BP M3 was about half the cost of new MP, so comparable to about the cost of vintage m6 too?

Well, actually less than half the price of a new MP cause the price on those have gone up a bit in the past few years.  MY BP M3 was less than what I see used M6s going for.  Personally I would take an M3 over a used M6 any day.  But I already have a light metered M with my MP. 

And while the Summilux 50 isn't the sexiest looking lens, I find it is very functional.  I has a focus tab and short throw and the lens hood is usable and convenient.  Plus it takes amazing photos.  

Here are my black paints together. 

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Update. I took my newly acquired M3 to my mom's cousin's house in south New Jersey for Thanksgiving.  I had half a roll of Tmax 400 in it that I thought I would finish off taking some pics of relatives.  There was so much commotion Thursday with everyone chatting and eating that I didn't even bring the camera out on Thursday and thought maybe I wouldn't take any pics after all.  But on Friday morning there was some decent light coming through the windows so I figured I'd grab the camera and try to use up the roll.  I was photographing my mom's cousin and he started asking me about my film camera.  He asked me what it was and I told him it was an old Leica.  And he told me that his grandfather had had a Leica.  As he was telling me this, I figured it had probably been sold years ago, but then he told his wife to go get the camera.  They brought out a Leica IIIa with a 50mm Elmar in a leather case and a 90mm Wollensak Velostigmat Leitz New York lens in a leather Carl Zeiss case. I was like, "wow!"  And then they told me to keep them!  So all because I took out my M3 and took a few pictures it sparked this incident where they pulled this moldy dusty camera and lens out of the closet and gave them to me.  The IIIa seems totally functional.  I just need to spend some time cleaning the gunk out of its crevices and lenses.  And the 90mm lens looks to be in good functional condition as well.  The serial number on the IIIa dates it to a batch of 200 cameras made in 1937.  The camera belonged to my mom's cousins' grandfather - so basically my grandmother's sister in law's father.  According to my cousin, his grandfather "found the camera buried in the sand on the beach." 

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Second Update:  Yesterday when I got back from the Thanksgiving trip where I was gifted the old Leica IIIa and 90mm lens, I decided to pull off the faux leather wrap that was put on my M3 when it was re-painted and put on a natural leather wrap on it that I had bought a few weeks ago from Hugo Studios.  I had ordered a dark brown leather wrap thinking it would be for a chrome M3.  But as you know if you have been following my thread that I returned the chrome M3 and bought a black re-painted one.  So I was unsure if I wanted to put the dark brown leather in it thinking it might look bad.  But I decided to give it a try and I have to say I really like how it looks. It it feels so much nicer in the hands with the natural leather.  I have used Hugo Studios for several wraps.  The leather is decent quality but their cuts are not totally accurate.  This one looks good but it is about a millimeter too small on the bottom and doesn't quite cover the camera above the base plate.  You can kind of see this in the pic.   I'd be curious if any of you have tried any other leather providers that supply to the US that have better sized wraps. 

 

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[RayD28]

I like the look.  No one will notice (or care) about the wrap being slightly short near the base plate.  However, if it were me I'd go with a black wrap to stay truer to the classic original look.  Just my two cents.  

[TomB_tx]

Thanks for sharing your journey! I've recovered a few cameras with Aki-Asahi kits which fit perfectly, but I don't know if they also have leather. I also recovered a TLR with a cover from Camera Leather - but I believe they are out of business. I agree that the camera looks fine as you have covered it, but if the fit bothers you other opinions don't matter.

The Summicron is all the 50 anyone needs. I used a v3 Summicron for 40+ years as my main lens and never wanted anything else. With the M9-10 I added a v5 - same optics as your V4 - and appreciate the slight edge in large apertures.

If you give the IIIa a chance you may find you use it more than the M3: they are habit forming. I've used a IIIf since the 1960s, but until my recent cataract surgery did away with my full-time glasses I didn't appreciate the VF on the Barnacks.

Having started photography in the 1960s when bright chrome cameras were in style, I've always preferred chrome to black - but added a black-chrome M6 in 1985 and came to like the look - but went back to silver chrome for my M10.

I was given a 1955 DS M3 that had suffered long storage baking in a Texas attic, so it needed new curtains and a lot of work - but it's worth fixing up these old masterpieces. I also added a later M3, but have preferred the M4 VF - perhaps because I wore glasses so long. Need to give the M3 another chance.

Enjoy your cameras and put them to use!

Edited November 27, 2022 by TomB_tx
typos...

[Huss]

I would have left the black cover on it, it looks better and fit correctly.  The only aftermarket cover maker that I have used that always fits perfectly is Aki Asahi.  I have also used Hugo Studios and cameraleather.  With the later I got one that fit great, and one that was a complete mess.

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3 hours ago, Huss said:

I would have left the black cover on it, it looks better and fit correctly.  The only aftermarket cover maker that I have used that always fits perfectly is Aki Asahi.  I have also used Hugo Studios and cameraleather.  With the later I got one that fit great, and one that was a complete mess.

The black cover fit nicely and looked good but it was synthetic leather and felt like plastic, which I really don't like.  I much prefer the natural leather feel.  I might put a black leather cover on it some day, but I don't mind the dark brown on it currently.  I think the color looks better than the iphone photo suggests.  

[Huss]

8 hours ago, mediumformula said:

The black cover fit nicely and looked good but it was synthetic leather and felt like plastic, which I really don't like.  I much prefer the natural leather feel.  I might put a black leather cover on it some day, but I don't mind the dark brown on it currently.  I think the color looks better than the iphone photo suggests.  

The original vulcanite cover that Leica used felt like hard plastic!  The thing w the brown cover that you have at the moment is that, at least to me, it looks like an aftermarket piece because of the fit. Compared to the black cover your camera came with, it looks very DIY.

The advantage of the synthetic covers is that they are extremely stable which is why they fit better.  The leather covers can and often do shrink a little after being cut, which is why their fit can be so variable.

[andrew01]

I also prefer the original vulcanite or Aki Asahi #4008 on an M3.  However its your camera so do what you want

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Hallo,

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[Huss]

Want bad fit?  Genuine leather from cameraleather.com.  Check out how poorly it fits around the screws, and the big gaps on the top and bottom horizontal edges.

I most prob should sell this camera as I never use it.  But it is so pretty!

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