I can’t figure out why these images aren’t sharp

[eyeheartny]

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9 hours ago, rossawilson1 said:

There are so many issues with judging sharpness, over the years I've noticed a lot of Leica M users have problems, in 15 uncalibrated years of my M6 and a lot of lenses I've never seen a problem. I suspect a lot of users are just bad at focusing or can't hand hold well. The M11 sensor would exacerbate this which is what we're likely seeing. 

 

Once again, since folks don't seem to get this, this is why a static tripod test with a reliable focus target (not a random object) that has a ruler and a 45-degree angle is the gold standard for assessing focus issues. Combining EVF/Live View testing with RF testing, from both infinity and MFD, is essential to identify what is user error and what is a lens/RF issue. 

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[lct]

8 minutes ago, eyeheartny said:

Once again, since folks don't seem to get this, this is why a static tripod test with a reliable focus target (not a random object) that has a ruler and a 45-degree angle is the gold standard for assessing focus issues

Only at the distance of the ruler i.e. for closeups or short distance tests. Funny to see that those rulers have become a sort of gold standard for everything to the point that self appointed reviewers dare to draw generalities from them and we see those guru's conclusions repeated ad nauseam on the web. Nothing can beat real world tests but they are more difficult that shooting a ruler for sure. End of rant and nothing personal of course .

[eyeheartny]

9 minutes ago, lct said:

Only at the distance of the ruler i.e. for closeups or short distance tests. Funny to see that those rulers have become a sort of gold standard for everything to the point that self appointed reviewers dare to draw generalities from them and we see those guru's conclusions repeated ad nauseam on the web. Nothing can beat real world tests but they are more difficult that shooting a ruler for sure. End of rant and nothing personal of course .

Real world tests, as you describe them, are not easily repeatable and controllable. I don't think that ruler tests are remotely useful for anything other than identifying focus issues that may require repair, either with a lens or RF module. But that's an important use case for a camera system that does not allow users to tweak/fine tune focus performance on their own. How would you propose reliably identifying issues if not with static tests with a tripod and focus target? 

Edited November 7, 2022 by eyeheartny

[lct]

Just now, eyeheartny said:

Real world tests, as you describe them, are not easily repeatable and controllable. I don't think that ruler tests are remotely useful for anything other than identifying focus issues that may require repair, either with a lens or RF module. How would you propose reliably identifying issues if not with static tests with a tripod and focus target? 

Tripod yes, target yes, i would add same light which is more difficult, but not only rulers of course. To me a good test should be done at least at 5m focus distance and possibly farther. My favorites ones are 1m, 5m and infinity if i can. Time consuming for sure but rulers are like the the most beautiful [...put the genre you prefer...] in the world, they can only give what they have .

[darylgo]

Just now, eyeheartny said:

Real world tests, as you describe them, are not easily repeatable and controllable.

The ruler test is great for what it is but I photograph rulers never.  If an M lens doesn’t have accurate focus in  the light I photograph in, I send it for proper calibration to Leica.  Also, Leica lenses can have more accurate focus from infinity or mfd, it’s good to note this.   My initial tests are handheld because that’s the way I shoot mostly, it’s very easy to repeat a handheld test, five minutes at best.   Perhaps I’ll start photographing rulers as a subject in the future🙄.

[TheEyesHaveIt]

For those that have done it, how long does it take to get a lens calibrated by Leica and how much does it cost (assuming out of warranty)?

[eyeheartny]

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1 hour ago, TheEyesHaveIt said:

For those that have done it, how long does it take to get a lens calibrated by Leica and how much does it cost (assuming out of warranty)?

Mine is due back on Thursday, two weeks from when I shipped it to Leica. Mine was brand new and under warranty so not sure if those get prioritized in the queue. 

Edited November 8, 2022 by eyeheartny

[TheEyesHaveIt]

Just now, eyeheartny said:

Mine is due back on Thursday, two weeks from when I shipped it to Leica. 

Do you know what they’ll charge?

[eyeheartny]

Just now, TheEyesHaveIt said:

Do you know what they’ll charge?

Nothing. Lens and camera are under warranty and did not perform up to spec, so they shimmed the lens and adjusted the rangefinder mechanism. They sent me two $0 invoices, one for the body (M11) and lens (50 Lux ASPH). 

[LocalHero1953]

When I last had a digital M (M240) I made my own target incorporating a scale at 45 degrees, printed expanded by 1.414 so that the scale read the correct cm range. This was good up to 5m. Thereafter up to 10-15m I used our wooden slatted fence and a tape measure. After that (being in a notoriously flat region), I had to head for the low hills a few miles off and look for a distant church tower.

[fenykepesz]

regarding focusing, my newly tuned M10D works again flawlessly : focus on the milky way at infinity renders stars razor-sharp - while the moon in the foreground  significantly closer to earth remains blurred - just kidding, right

so, in terms of sharpness of the moon, and i have no experience with astronomy nor astrology, i would think that that's how sharp it can get with a fully open 50mm/1.4 at iso100 and 1/4000s without tripod.  please, update me if i am wrong...

but now, regarding these 'stars', i would say that they are rather artifacts that reveal M10 sensor noise.  pay attention to the calmer pattern right around the moon, no visible stars there - why ? in that area of scattered light the average signal intensity is well above zero albeit still fairly dark.  but in the remaining areas of the sky things are pretty close to zero throughout.  that's where sensor noise takes over, relatively, and gets readily picked up as 'contrast' by the c2g algorithm i use for colour conversion (DNG -> TIF at 3x16bit, gegl/c2g colour conversion, cropping, single-channel 1x16bit grey-scale, save to 1x8bit PNG file shown here).

in sum, i feel my newly self-calibrated M10D paired with a 50/1.4 or 35/1.4 performs again as it should.   so much for test shooting last night in the 'white-glowing' moonshine above Montréal...

 

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Edited November 8, 2022 by fenykepesz

[charlesphoto99]

Did you shoot anything closer? Sometimes an infinity adjustment to that degree can throw off mid to near. See other thread. 

[fenykepesz]

good point, charlesphoto99, and yes, i also tested fairly near objects (and yes, even tilted 45° rulers), and they are now 'miraculously' in focus too (see below, JPG at 95%, or here).  i only needed to do one single hefty hex turn on that cam roller, and things were again in place, meaning in focus.  i guess i was very lucky in this respect, no big playing with the cam screw and roller hex and no back-and-forth balancing between their settings...

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[TheEyesHaveIt]

On 10/31/2022 at 8:47 AM, eyeheartny said:

 

You need to do a static tripod test indoors with a focus target in consistent light. Get a target like this. Use a desk lamp and set up a tripod with your M11 mounted on it. Set up the target so that the small part of the target (the shape on the right near the ruler) is in the middle of the focus patch. Pick a sensible distance like 25-30x focal length (in MM). Perform tests using Live View with focus magnification. Then use the rangefinder. See if you get sharp results wide open and as you stop down. Using the focus target will show you whether it is front or back focusing or some other issue. 

I ordered this - thanks for the link!

Also, found some info around prices for lens and camera CLAs https://reddotcamera.net/leica-repairs/cla/ and http://www.yyecamera.com/price_lens.html in case that helps somebody.

[TheEyesHaveIt]

So LensCal is very helpful. Bit tricky to get all the variables right - and I'm not sure I nailed them perfectly on my first attempt - but I think my Summilux 35 is perfectly sharp in the center at 1.4. The LCD screen with max zoom focus assist is still too far away at ~5ft to get very precise with focusing. I ended up tethering to the Photos app on my phone and that was very helpful in getting tack sharp at 1.4. Wonder if the Visoflex would be helpful here?

What I DID end up noticing unfortunately though is I think I have a misalignment with my viewfinder. After focusing on my phone, I noticed the viewfinder wasn't perfectly aligned. If I tried to align the focus through that perfectly, I missed focus on the LensCal target. What's the best course of action to get the viewfinder alignment adjusted? Does it take a long time?

[eyeheartny]

Just now, TheEyesHaveIt said:

So LensCal is very helpful. Bit tricky to get all the variables right - and I'm not sure I nailed them perfectly on my first attempt - but I think my Summilux 35 is perfectly sharp in the center at 1.4. The LCD screen with max zoom focus assist is still too far away at ~5ft to get very precise with focusing. I ended up tethering to the Photos app on my phone and that was very helpful in getting tack sharp at 1.4. Wonder if the Visoflex would be helpful here?

What I DID end up noticing unfortunately though is I think I have a misalignment with my viewfinder. After focusing on my phone, I noticed the viewfinder wasn't perfectly aligned. If I tried to align the focus through that perfectly, I missed focus on the LensCal target. What's the best course of action to get the viewfinder alignment adjusted? Does it take a long time?

Did you use the small target near the ruler or were you trying to use the ruler? Just use the big black and white target, as long as your LensCal isn’t turned to the side it’ll be accurate. 

Sorry to hear your rangefinder is out of alignment. Did you test with another lens so you can verify if it’s the lens or the rangefinder? Without a second lens there isn’t really a way to tell which one is off unfortunately as you won’t be sure if the lens needs adjustment or the rangefinder mechanism. 

incidentally, I got my M11 and 50 Lux ASPH back from Leica NJ. They claimed they fixed them but the same issue persists and is easily demonstrated. I’m absolutely furious. The focus is completely off when going from infinity toward the target but is more accurate (still bad though) from minimum focus to target. Infuriating. 
 

[TheEyesHaveIt]

17 minutes ago, eyeheartny said:

Did you use the small target near the ruler or were you trying to use the ruler? Just use the big black and white target, as long as your LensCal isn’t turned to the side it’ll be accurate. 

Sorry to hear your rangefinder is out of alignment. Did you test with another lens so you can verify if it’s the lens or the rangefinder? Without a second lens there isn’t really a way to tell which one is off unfortunately as you won’t be sure if the lens needs adjustment or the rangefinder mechanism. 

incidentally, I got my M11 and 50 Lux ASPH back from Leica NJ. They claimed they fixed them but the same issue persists and is easily demonstrated. I’m absolutely furious. The focus is completely off when going from infinity toward the target but is more accurate (still bad though) from minimum focus to target. Infuriating. 
 

I focused on the target. I'll redo the test again tomorrow morning too just to make sure.

Unfortunately, at the moment, I only have a single lens, so I guess to your point, hard to know if it is the lens's focus mechanism is off or if the viewfinder is off.

[eyeheartny]

Just now, TheEyesHaveIt said:

I focused on the target. I'll redo the test again tomorrow morning too just to make sure.

Unfortunately, at the moment, I only have a single lens, so I guess to your point, hard to know if it is the lens's focus mechanism is off or if the viewfinder is off.

Rangefinder, not viewfinder. Don’t mean to be pedantic but the viewfinder itself is likely fine. The rangefinder is what needs adjusting sometimes. Advise learning about the systems your camera uses to function! 

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[TheEyesHaveIt]

7 minutes ago, eyeheartny said:

Rangefinder, not viewfinder. Don’t mean to be pedantic but the viewfinder itself is likely fine. The rangefinder is what needs adjusting sometimes. Advise learning about the systems your camera uses to function! 

Yes, sorry - the rangefinder. I suppose I'll have to wait until I get another lens to see what's up - unless there's some other way to test things?

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4 hours ago, TheEyesHaveIt said:

unless there's some other way to test things?

Try focusing with the rangefinder at different apertures. You might be experiencing focus shift.