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I can’t figure out why these images aren’t sharp


Jeff Wagner
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I have not yet tried with a lower f-stop in case it is the higher ones that are perhaps the reason, but I expected both of these to be fully in focus and neither one is. The 1. was handheld and the 2 was on a tripod with the App remote.  Exif data below

Any feedback is welcome. Thank you, Jeff

 

LEICA M11

35mm (Summilux-M 1:1.4/35 ASPH.) 9528 x 6328 • 76.3 MB 1/25 sec f/9.5

ISO 800

 

LEICA M11

35mm (Summilux-M 1:1.4/35 ASPH.) 7685 x 5105 (9528 × 6328) • 76.9 MB

1/250 sec f/16

ISO 800.DNG

 

 

 

 

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I can't enlarge your images enough to see anything, but I find that I get sharp images out of the M11 if I:

-stop down to f/5.6

-use a shutter speed of >1/(20xfocal-length)

-limit resolution to 18 MP,

-focus bracket x 12 shots, and

-use Voigtlander APO lenses

(pardon the exaggeration, but I do think that the resolution presents some new challenges)

 

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17 minutes ago, gotium said:

I can't enlarge your images enough to see anything, but I find that I get sharp images out of the M11 if I:

-stop down to f/5.6

-use a shutter speed of >1/(20xfocal-length)

-limit resolution to 18 MP,

-focus bracket x 12 shots, and

-use Voigtlander APO lenses

(pardon the exaggeration, but I do think that the resolution presents some new challenges)

 

None of these suggestions make sense to me, nor do they match my experience with M11.

 

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Shooting 1/25 sec handheld, or shooting f/16 (possible diffraction), are not ideal settings for sharpest photos.  And that’s without knowing how you’re focusing and whether your system is well calibrated.  Try f/5.6 or f/8, on tripod, using LV to ensure proper focus. If sharp, then you can check against RF focusing.  If still ok, try handheld using same aperture and fast shutter speed (adjust ISO as needed).

Jeff
 

 

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One of the issues of high-resolution cameras is they show minor vibrations that would not be evident in a lower-resolution camera. In fact, when Nikon introduced the D800 at 36MP suggested using a tripod whenever possible when shooting static subjects to avoid motion blur. Of course the M11 has no mirror to introduce additional vibration, but even with mirror lock-up and a cable release or self-timer, the sharpest pictures will be made with the camera on a tripod.

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Proper hand held shooting technique is a must, particularly with the M11's 60 mp sensor. 

Some who shoot with the M11 are saying use a shutter speed that is 3x or 4x the focal length of your lens, as in 1/150 or 1/200 for a 50mm lens.  I would say give that a try.  Also, brace your body and the arm of the hand that is holding the M11 against a solid, stationary object whenever you can.  You might also consider using a monopod with the M11; you lose a bit of mobility compared to hand held, but you gain a lot in terms of stability.

Using the 36mp resolution setting seems to defeat the purpose of the M11's 60 mp sensor.  If that is what a person must resort to in order to get sharp hand held images, the M10-R with its 40 mp sensor might be a better choice.  Proper technique negates being trapped into shooting at 36 mp with the M11, though.

 

Edited by Herr Barnack
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I’m not seeing motion blur in these images.  If I had to guess what’s occurring (assuming the rangefinder was focused as it should) it is an alignment issue, perhaps the lens was not mounted fully or went past the lock position.  
 

To the OP, is this result repeatable, and with all images out of the camera?  

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9 hours ago, Jeff Wagner said:

I have not yet tried with a lower f-stop in case it is the higher ones that are perhaps the reason, but I expected both of these to be fully in focus and neither one is. The 1. was handheld and the 2 was on a tripod with the App remote.  Exif data below

Any feedback is welcome. Thank you, Jeff

 

LEICA M11

35mm (Summilux-M 1:1.4/35 ASPH.) 9528 x 6328 • 76.3 MB 1/25 sec f/9.5

ISO 800

 

LEICA M11

35mm (Summilux-M 1:1.4/35 ASPH.) 7685 x 5105 (9528 × 6328) • 76.9 MB

1/250 sec f/16

ISO 800.DNG

 

 

 

 

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As suggested earlier, try to shoot using a liveview to eliminate misalignment 

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45 minutes ago, hillavoider said:

yeah they are small, but i was asking Jeff if its only with that lens

I cannot answer for Jeff but if your issue is motion blur, as i suspect it, it is advised to choose at least 1/2f whatever lens is used. With a 35mm lens you may wish to try again at, say, 1/100s since the speed you've chosen (1/25s) is much too slow for handheld shooting with an high res camera sans IBIS like the M11.

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I’m not sure what these images are showing, but in previous discussions we had some people comparing M10R and M11 photos whereby the editing process had left the M11 images less sharpened.  That made them seemingly less sharp, though they did resolve more detail.

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vor 5 Stunden schrieb lct:

choose at least 1/2f whatever lens is used

are you sure of that? When you look at an image from M10 and the same from M11 and have the 2 images both at same size (cm width and hight). We discussed this in that other thread ( can not find unfortunately). It seemed that its a myth that M11 is blurier unless you choose faster shutter speed (e.g. 1/(4f)sec).

The images above were taken at 1/250s (the second one at least). The 1/25s of the first one might be a misprint?

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2 hours ago, M11 for me said:

are you sure of that? When you look at an image from M10 and the same from M11 and have the 2 images both at same size (cm width and hight). We discussed this in that other thread ( can not find unfortunately). It seemed that its a myth that M11 is blurier unless you choose faster shutter speed (e.g. 1/(4f)sec).

The images above were taken at 1/250s (the second one at least). The 1/25s of the first one might be a misprint?

Yes it is my experience for sure, i posted comparos M11 vs M240 a couple months ago but i don't recall the links sorry. I mean comparos between images of the same size though, otherwise they don't mean anything, at least for me. As for the second image i cannot say anything useful as it is too small for me sorry. YMMV.

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vor 2 Stunden schrieb lct:

Yes it is my experience for sure, i posted comparos M11 vs M240 a couple months ago but i don't recall the links sorry. I mean comparos between images of the same size though, otherwise they don't mean anything, at least for me. As for the second image i cannot say anything useful as it is too small for me sorry. YMMV.

That is actually interesting that you still say that. And Ido not doubt that thats your experience. Indeed I set my M11 to 1/(4f) sec in the beginning as well. But I stopped in the meantime. Its actually @01af who brought in the "scientific" arguments that seem to me to be fully logic as in the respective thread we saw some convincing graphs to prove the facts. I would like to reference that thread here.

But @lct I am not able to go into those details. And I accept your experiences. 

 

Edited by M11 for me
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41 minutes ago, M11 for me said:

That is actually interesting that you still say that. And Ido not doubt that thats your experience. Indeed I set my M11 to 1/(4f) sec in the beginning as well. But I stopped in the meantime. Its actually @01af who brought in the "scientific" arguments that seem to me to be fully logic as in the respective thread we saw some convincing graphs to prove the facts. I would like to reference that thread here.

But @lct I am not able to go into those details. And I accept your experiences. 

I did not read this thread sorry but fact is people keep referring to 1/2f, 1/3f and even 1/4f, which they did not do before the M11. It may be good to have some experience with other cameras too. If you have access to another high res camera, you may wish to compare with a lower res one as i did with my Sony A7s and A7r2 bodies or you may wish to compare 100% crops on the same high res camera with and w/o IBIS, A7r2 in my case. It's the way i have learnt that the higher the sensor resolution the faster shutter speeds must be, at full res sans IBIS nor tripod i mean. Purely empirical admittedly :cool:. BTW 1/4f is too fast in my experience but i have steady hands so 1/2f works fine for me generally. YMMV.

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I can not add to it. I notice though that you mention 100% view. But that is the issue as it should be both pictures the same size im cm (or whatever measure).

But maybe someone else jumps in here who knows exactly how to explain the phenomenon or the physics of that. By no means I want to start an unqualified pingpong with you as that will not help anybody understand things better. I understand that this is your experience and my point is not to contradict you when that is what you see in your pictures. 

And Jeff got still no answer to his issue with his blurred pictures.

Edited by M11 for me
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