My (maybe brief?) return to film...need some help

[Mikep996]

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Thanks, I'll try that!

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The Leica Q3 is available for pre-order at B&H Photo Video and Adorama

[250swb]

1 hour ago, Huss said:

Yes!  So it's not just me!  Everyone goes on how amazingly smooth the film advance on the F3 is.  But to me it feels horrible.  The reason being is it has ball bearings in the mechanism to make it very light.  But that makes it feel floppy too and has a lot of play in the lever.  Unlike the F2, or any Leica, or any Minolta (the XE5 is amazing in the feel) etc.

And I have had three F3s, now down to a perfect F3P!  Perfect condition, it would be perfect if the advance lever felt like my M-A, or F2 or...

I agree the F3’s film advance isn’t as satisfying as the F or F2 even though it is ‘better’.  The initial advance gearing of the F3 does most of the work and is still light in comparison, but the last part of the stroke is very, very light and feels a bit weird because of the change from a bit of resistance to almost none. 
 

But I bought my first F3 when they were first introduced and used it alongside my F2 professionally for Press work. And the F3 was my favourite camera at the time in a rapid shooting situation simply because it gave confidence, there was never any doubt you could have not finished the full stroke because it was so easy. But yes, even the slightly longer and more resistant stroke of my F’s now make me feel like I’m more involved.

[madNbad]

I thought plastic reels were supposed to be easier to load than stainless steel. I’ll stay with my Hewes reels. 

[logan2z]

Just now, madNbad said:

I thought plastic reels were supposed to be easier to load than stainless steel. I’ll stay with my Hewes reels. 

I think they are - at least the Jobo plastic reels.  I've never used the Paterson reels. 

[250swb]

24 minutes ago, madNbad said:

I thought plastic reels were supposed to be easier to load than stainless steel. I’ll stay with my Hewes reels. 

They are easy to load, not easier, but they require common sense which is easy to learn.

[edstock]

I just my exposed rolls of to one of several labs for both processing and printing. Most labs offer converting to digital if desired. To me the cost is worth it.

[105012]

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I’ve used both Paterson and Jobo reels (I do have some metal ones somewhere in my old darkroom, but never tried them). It has been a while, but I remember finding the Jobo much easier to load when I first tried them, I’ve been using them for years now without issue. I’m always careful to ensure Photo-flo does not contact the reels, wash my hands etc.

[LocalHero1953]

Just a thought about how you grip the reel and turn it to pull the film onto the reel. My hands are big enough to spread my fingers across the diameter: I use one thumb and three fingers just touching the the non-emulsion side of the film, spreading the pressure; I don't rely on the reel alone to grip the film. I use fast short movements not big sweeping ones. I'll probably get told off for touching the film, but I have not noticed any finger print marks on the developed negative.

[logan2z]

12 minutes ago, LocalHero1953 said:

Just a thought about how you grip the reel and turn it to pull the film onto the reel. My hands are big enough to spread my fingers across the diameter: I use one thumb and three fingers just touching the the non-emulsion side of the film, spreading the pressure; I don't rely on the reel alone to grip the film. I use fast short movements not big sweeping ones. I'll probably get told off for touching the film, but I have not noticed any finger print marks on the developed negative.

I grip the edges of the film that are just sticking out past the edge of the reel, which holds the film in place while I pull more out of the cassette.  I also wear a pair of nitrile gloves while loading film onto the reel to avoid leaving any fingerprints if I inadvertently touch the surface of the film.

[MarkP]

8 hours ago, johnwolf said:

True. However, there's a lot to be said for shooting freely, spontaneously, without all that thinking. As in writing, painting, and other creative endeavors, fastidiousness can be the enemy of creativity. 

I suppose it depends on your genre and temperament, but to me one of the limitations of film is the cost and time required to shoot with abandon. 

John

Hi John

This isn’t at all an anti-digital discussion on my part.  I don’t think one medium is better than the other.  I grew up with film and, as I wrote above like it’s character as well as my approach to using it.  I have and use both media. It was more that I like how I think differently with film.

I too like that I can experiment and explore a subject to death with digital. And, as you mentioned at no cost - except the time editing out all the dross 🙂. Furthermore I can achieve and obsess over a different level of image quality than I wouldn’t ever expect from film.

[Mikep996]

I went to Africa a few years ago - took two digital cameras, one with a short zoom, one with a long zoom.  I came back with 3400 pictures.  I started trying to edit and got so frustrated I gave up.  Too dang many pictures!!  After the first couple hundred  I quit looking.  The pics are still on the SD cards that I had in the cameras at the time and I have never looked at any of them beyond that first group.  Of course, digital didn't MAKE me take all those pics but it ENABLED my lack of discipline!

 

[Huss]

2 minutes ago, Mikep996 said:

I went to Africa a few years ago - took two digital cameras, one with a short zoom, one with a long zoom.  I came back with 3400 pictures.  I started trying to edit and got so frustrated I gave up.  Too dang many pictures!!  After the first couple hundred  I quit looking.  The pics are still on the SD cards that I had in the cameras at the time and I have never looked at any of them beyond that first group.  Of course, digital didn't MAKE me take all those pics but it ENABLED my lack of discipline!

 

You should have just bought a post card when you were there.

[MarkP]

1 hour ago, Huss said:

You should have just bought a post card when you were there.

From the tourist kiosk where one can also buy souvenir spoons

[Mikep996]

Sadly there were no souvenir kiosks in the bush of Kenya/Tanzania but yeah, I could have just stayed in Nairobi for the whole time!  Plenty of postcards there!  Darn, didn't think of that! 🙄

You know, one thing about taking pictures that I have found through my entire life that is the opposite of what many folks think.  If I am taking pictures, I am NOT actually participating/"seeing" things.  I used to do a lot of photography at horse-jumping events and people would ask, "Did you see [so-and so do whatever?]"  My response was always, "I was taking pictures of it, I didn't see anything."  

[Topsy]

1 hour ago, Mikep996 said:

 I used to do a lot of photography at horse-jumping events and people would ask, "Did you see [so-and so do whatever?]"  My response was always, "I was taking pictures of it, I didn't see anything."  

I konw that feeling, I was once on the touchline photographing a Rugby match and someone turned up late. He asked me who was winning and I didn't have a clue. 😁

[250swb]

33 minutes ago, Topsy said:

I konw that feeling, I was once on the touchline photographing a Rugby match and someone turned up late. He asked me who was winning and I didn't have a clue. 😁

I used to be a theatre photographer and never knew what the play was about, which isn't so bad, sometimes the reviews that went with my photos came to the same conclusion.

[Tom R]

On 10/28/2022 at 12:29 PM, logan2z said:

Jobo has apparently stated that their reels shouldn't be submerged in Photoflo to avoid a buildup on the reels.  Instead, I open up the reel and dump the film into a separate container that contains the Photoflo mixture.  I suppose if you scrub the reels well enough then it's not a problem, but I've been following their guidance and haven't noticed any buildup on the reels. You may want to try that with your Paterson reels as well.  

I have also heard this from other credible sources. Because I do use PhotoFlo, I regularly disassemble reels and wash them in PhotoFinish Darkroom cleaner, which can be purchased from Freestyle in CA. I find that doing this has made the entire process of winding film onto these reels much smoother. 

Another source suggests that after cleaning and drying Paterson reels, a number 2 (soft) pencil tip can be used to lubricate the ball bearings which have a tendency to accumulate gunk from the photo flow (and perhaps other chemicals). 

I also have the sense that the original Paterson reels (with the small notches) are more susceptible to rough loading than the larger-notched Omegas--but I cannot think of an easy way to verify this.

[Mikep996]

I don't really understand - though I accept that it must happen- how photo-flo can leave a residue behind.  The whole point of using is to ensure there is nothing left behind on the negative.  I always used it and never had any sort of negative issue at all though, as I said in an earlier post, I used SS reels so no idea re plastic reels until now.

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Hallo,

Look here: Leica M

[Pyrogallol]

I have used Paterson reels for 50 years and never had any problems from Fotoflo, but I only use a few drops, in the tank with the spiral and film in at the end of washing.

[Mikep996]

FWIW...I ordered a SS tank/Hewes SS reels a few days ago.  I found the Paterson reels to be too annoying to futz around with.  When I got the SS stuff I practiced twice in the daylight and then twice more in the changing bag and then started using the them "for real." I can load the SS reel in the half the time of the Paterson PLUS have no difficulty re the length of the film (24 vs 36) or any issues re Phot-flo, cleaning the plastic reels, using pencil lead to help feeding, etc. 

ADMITTEDLY, when I had darkrooms (up until around 2002) I used SS tanks/reels so I may have some left-over muscle memory for loading them but, TBH, I don't recall having any particular difficulty in learning to use SS reels back when I started.  Of course, that was quite a long time ago so my memory may be faulty!   I'm not recommending anybody switch what they are doing; if something works well, stick with it.  But Paterson reels didn't work well for ME.  Also, since I only shoot 35mm, I like the fact that the SS 35mm two-reel tank is much smaller than the plastic tank.