MP user, new M6?

[plaidshirts]

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I just got this response from DAG:

”There are 3 gears on the top of the Leica M cameras. Originally there's a steel, then brass & then steel gear which is good because you normally don't want to use the same metal for 2 adjoining gears.

When Leitz came out with their New York Motor-Drive (my dad, Norman Goldberg, designed it), they felt that the brass gear on top should be steel, so from then on all Leica M cameras that were designed

to take either a motor or winder had all the upper gears made of steel, even though the original steel, brass, steel gears were smoother. And the MP camera also has all steel gears on top.”

 

So there you go. The MP has ALL steel gears.

[smkoush]

7 hours ago, plaidshirts said:

I just got this response from DAG:

”There are 3 gears on the top of the Leica M cameras. Originally there's a steel, then brass & then steel gear which is good because you normally don't want to use the same metal for 2 adjoining gears.

When Leitz came out with their New York Motor-Drive (my dad, Norman Goldberg, designed it), they felt that the brass gear on top should be steel, so from then on all Leica M cameras that were designed

to take either a motor or winder had all the upper gears made of steel, even though the original steel, brass, steel gears were smoother. And the MP camera also has all steel gears on top.”

 

So there you go. The MP has ALL steel gears.

 

My apologies, I stand corrected. The MP does have steel gears. Thank you for clarifying that. 

 

[earthphoto]

I would stay with the MP. 

Just my 2 cents

[colonel]

I bought the MP as it was a better looking, better made, better materials, better film crank, vertical rewind knob, less notchy and better speed dial and better to use then the M6

The new M6 has some of the upgrades of the MP, but is still inferior IMHO. Internal electronics changes are irrelevant as I neither expect my MP to fail or Leica to not be able to repair it

I am happy for those who like the M6 format to buy the new camera. The more film cameras the merrier !!

[lmans]

1 hour ago, colonel said:

I bought the MP as it was a better looking, better made, better materials, better film crank, vertical rewind knob, less notchy and better speed dial and better to use then the M6

The new M6 has some of the upgrades of the MP, but is still inferior IMHO. Internal electronics changes are irrelevant as I neither expect my MP to fail or Leica to not be able to repair it

I am happy for those who like the M6 format to buy the new camera. The more film cameras the merrier !!

This shows you the difference in personal preferences.

First...the new M6 isn't less well made than the MP. In fact the M6 most likely has better materials. The crank on the M6 is better. The rewind knob on the M6 is way way way  better.... The speed dial is okay on both....   'better to use'...not sure what you can point to on that phrase....? 

For looks? I guess it depends on what you prefer, eh?

[colonel]

12 minutes ago, lmans said:

This shows you the difference in personal preferences.

First...the new M6 isn't less well made than the MP. In fact the M6 most likely has better materials. The crank on the M6 is better. The rewind knob on the M6 is way way way  better.... The speed dial is okay on both....   'better to use'...not sure what you can point to on that phrase....? 

For looks? I guess it depends on what you prefer, eh?

Of course, it's all a difference in personal preferences. I should have said "superior to me".

The M6 doesn't have better materials, since we know what they are. The wind crank is the pivoted plastic and metal M6 one, not the single metal one on the MP. The angled rewind knob,  with the flip out lever, is cheap imho. Apart from that, thr lack of red dot and signature Leica on the top of the MP is more premium IMHO. I suspect the next version of the MP will be significantly more expensive then the new M6

You can love the new M6

We all like what we like

 

Edited October 25, 2022 by colonel

[logan2z]

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42 minutes ago, colonel said:

Of course, it's all a difference in personal preferences. I should have said "superior to me".

The M6 doesn't have better materials, since we know what they are. The wind crank is the pivoted plastic and metal M6 one, not the single metal one on the MP. The angled rewind knob,  with the flip out lever, is cheap imho. Apart from that, thr lack of red dot and signature Leica on the top of the MP is more premium IMHO. I suspect the next version of the MP will be significantly more expensive then the new M6

You can love the new M6

We all like what we like

 

Frankly I wish I could own them all   They're all a bit different and have their own unique functional pros/cons and aesthetic appeal.   But it's tough to justify adding the new M6 when I already have three M film bodies, although that little devil on my left shoulder keeps nagging at me... 

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[ktmrider2]

Presently, I don't own either the M6, MP or MA.  Having owned and sold both the classic M6 and M6TTL back in the day I have never understood their upsurge in price or popularity except to contribute it to the hipsters with too much money to spend (probably work in Silicon Valley) now getting into film.  And I was skeptical of all the Leica marketing about the MP and how much better it was over the M6.  And the MA is an M2 with modern film loading and too many frames in the viewfinder.

But I have to say the excitement around the introduction of the M6 is a good thing for those of us who enjoy film.  There is a limited number of film cameras on the used market and that number decreases every year due to age and breakage.  The market will determine if used Leica film cameras will continue being worth so much more than a Nikon F or Canon F1 (my two favorite SLR's with a slight nod to the Nikon F).

I am very very tempted by a new MP as I have never owned an MP, unlike the M6.  However, I remember the main reason I think the M2 is the best camera Leica ever produced.  To me, the essence of a Leica is the viewfinder and if you can live with 35/50/90 frame lines it does not get any better.  I sold both M6's when I discovered the M2 and M4.  The 135 frame lines in the M4 are so small as to not be too intrusive and I use the 135f2.8 which brings up the 90 frame lines anyway.  I much prefer the film loading and rewind of the M4 although I can and have lived with the knob on the M2/MP/MA.  

I know of no one on this forum who is perfectly happy with the cameras Leica is making now!  Each of us would change a couple small details (anyone wish Leica would bring back the self timer which was deleted on the M4-2 to make room for an electric motor).  I wish Leica would bring its "a la carte" program back while keeping its prices in line with their currently produced cameras.  They would have order backloads for years!

We can dream.  My camera (for now as my taste might change in the future) would be a black paint body (using the same paint as the original M4) with the M2 viewfinder while adding thru the lens metering.  I would want modern film loading and rewind and would probably go with an M3 style film advance.  They can keep the same shutter so the battery would only power the meter.  And I would probably order two so I could shoot both b&w and color simultaneously (just kidding).  For now, I will keep using my black chrome 50th anniversary M4 and ignore the 135 frame line and using a hand held incident meter.

 

[plaidshirts]

8 minutes ago, logan2z said:

Frankly I wish I could own them all   They're all a bit different and have their own unique functional pros/cons and aesthetic appeal.   But it's tough to justify adding the new M6 when I already have three M film bodies, although that little devil on my left shoulder keeps nagging at me... 

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No justification necessary =). I've owned 3 M6s in my lifetime and like the classics better.

So while I have no desire to get the new M6 since I think my MP is better (and 1 Leica with a meter is enough), I've decided to get an M4 made in my birth year because, well, just because.

[lmans]

1 hour ago, colonel said:

Of course, it's all a difference in personal preferences. I should have said "superior to me".

The M6 doesn't have better materials, since we know what they are. The wind crank is the pivoted plastic and metal M6 one, not the single metal one on the MP. The angled rewind knob,  with the flip out lever, is cheap imho. Apart from that, thr lack of red dot and signature Leica on the top of the MP is more premium IMHO. I suspect the next version of the MP will be significantly more expensive then the new M6

You can love the new M6

We all like what we like

 

True...we all like what we like. I have had the option for years to go for the MP and haven't. I know what the rewind knob on the M3 is like and wouldn't want an updated camera such as the MP with that same design. Regarding the flip out lever on the M6 for rewind....I must admit, that has me baffled. Although I have never found one broken, yet..... AE-1, Olympus OM1, M6 etc... It would seem cheaply made admittedly but they don't seem to snap. Not sure why. I do wish it was metal though.

[logan2z]

6 minutes ago, plaidshirts said:

No justification necessary =). I've owned 3 M6s in my lifetime and like the classics better.

So while I have no desire to get the new M6 since I think my MP is better (and 1 Leica with a meter is enough), I've decided to get an M4 made in my birth year because, well, just because.

I love the classics as well.  But my M2 is back in Wetzlar after just returning from a complete overhaul (don't ask 😔).  Starting to wonder if Leica will do an even swap for a new M6 for all my trouble 😁

[Topsy]

29 minutes ago, ktmrider2 said:

Presently, I don't own either the M6, MP or MA.  Having owned and sold both the classic M6 and M6TTL back in the day I have never understood their upsurge in price or popularity except to contribute it to the hipsters with too much money to spend (probably work in Silicon Valley) now getting into film.  And I was skeptical of all the Leica marketing about the MP and how much better it was over the M6.  And the MA is an M2 with modern film loading and too many frames in the viewfinder.

But I have to say the excitement around the introduction of the M6 is a good thing for those of us who enjoy film.  There is a limited number of film cameras on the used market and that number decreases every year due to age and breakage.  The market will determine if used Leica film cameras will continue being worth so much more than a Nikon F or Canon F1 (my two favorite SLR's with a slight nod to the Nikon F).

I am very very tempted by a new MP as I have never owned an MP, unlike the M6.  However, I remember the main reason I think the M2 is the best camera Leica ever produced.  To me, the essence of a Leica is the viewfinder and if you can live with 35/50/90 frame lines it does not get any better.  I sold both M6's when I discovered the M2 and M4.  The 135 frame lines in the M4 are so small as to not be too intrusive and I use the 135f2.8 which brings up the 90 frame lines anyway.  I much prefer the film loading and rewind of the M4 although I can and have lived with the knob on the M2/MP/MA.  

I know of no one on this forum who is perfectly happy with the cameras Leica is making now!  Each of us would change a couple small details (anyone wish Leica would bring back the self timer which was deleted on the M4-2 to make room for an electric motor).  I wish Leica would bring its "a la carte" program back while keeping its prices in line with their currently produced cameras.  They would have order backloads for years!

We can dream.  My camera (for now as my taste might change in the future) would be a black paint body (using the same paint as the original M4) with the M2 viewfinder while adding thru the lens metering.  I would want modern film loading and rewind and would probably go with an M3 style film advance.  They can keep the same shutter so the battery would only power the meter.  And I would probably order two so I could shoot both b&w and color simultaneously (just kidding).  For now, I will keep using my black chrome 50th anniversary M4 and ignore the 135 frame line and using a hand held incident meter.

 

I'd like to introduce myself to you as the first person you know who is perfectly happy with his MP (and M9s). I had an M6 but disliked the rewind and film advance I preferred the ones on my M2 so I sold the M6 and bought a used MP.

[Danner]

25 minutes ago, logan2z said:

I love the classics as well.  But my M2 is back in Wetzlar after just returning from a complete overhaul (don't ask 😔).  Starting to wonder if Leica will do an even swap for a new M6 for all my trouble 😁

Let me preface this with an apology for what I am about to ask...

Please tell us about your M2 overhaul experience?

[Huss]

I have the MP and do not understand why Leica went from the large shutter speed dial that the M6 TTL had, which matches the direction of the metering arrows in the VF, to the smaller M6 dial that turns the opposite way to the metering arrows in the VF.

If the new M6 had the TTL’s shutter speed dial and functionality, it would differentiate it much more over the MP that is being sold alongside it.

Edited October 25, 2022 by Huss

[FrozenInTime]

44 minutes ago, Huss said:

I have the MP and do not understand why Leica went from the large shutter speed dial that the M6 TTL had, which matches the direction of the metering arrows in the VF, to the smaller M6 dial that turns the opposite way to the metering arrows in the VF.

If the new M6 had the TTL’s shutter speed dial and functionality, it would differentiate it much more over the MP that is being sold alongside it.

Would the result not be taller - needs an extra gear to make it turn backwards for compatibility with the shutter mechanism ?

[Huss]

50 minutes ago, FrozenInTime said:

Would the result not be taller - needs an extra gear to make it turn backwards for compatibility with the shutter mechanism ?

Dunno mate.  That is interesting though, I was under the impression the M6ttl was taller due to the TTL electronic stuff.

[logan2z]

4 hours ago, Danner said:

Let me preface this with an apology for what I am about to ask...

Please tell us about your M2 overhaul experience?

The camera was given a full, documented, overhaul by Wetzlar just prior to me purchasing it from an authorized Leica dealer.  According to the paperwork I received with the camera, the overhaul took 6 months from start to finish and was rather expensive. 

The first lens I attempted to mount on the camera was my 50mm Summicron v5.  The lens seemed a bit awkward to mount but I finagled it a bit and got it mounted.  Looking through the viewfinder I could see that the 50mm frameline was visible but so was a (partial) 90mm frameline (the lens mounts fine on my other M bodies and brings up the correct frameline.)   I contacted the selling dealer and promptly boxed up the camera and sent it back to them.  They checked it out and returned it to Wetzlar for repair, where it's been for the last month.  At this point it's not clear when the camera will be returned, although I've been told the repair is being expedited.  Hopefully it'll be returned soon...

Edited October 25, 2022 by logan2z

[FrozenInTime]

2 hours ago, Huss said:

Dunno mate.  That is interesting though, I was under the impression the M6ttl was taller due to the TTL electronic stuff.

Good internal M6TTL pictures here: https://www.photo.net/forums/topic/423705-leica-mp-differences/

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[Danner]

In Fozen's post, the other camera is an MP.

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Hallo,

Look here: Leica M

[Danner]

2 hours ago, logan2z said:

The camera was given a full, documented, overhaul by Wetzlar just prior to me purchasing it from an authorized Leica dealer.  According to the paperwork I received with the camera, the overhaul took 6 months from start to finish and was rather expensive. 

The first lens I attempted to mount on the camera was my 50mm Summicron v5.  The lens seemed a bit awkward to mount but I finagled it a bit and got it mounted.  Looking through the viewfinder I could see that the 50mm frameline was visible but so was a (partial) 90mm frameline (the lens mounts fine on my other M bodies and brings up the correct frameline.)   I contacted the selling dealer and promptly boxed up the camera and sent it back to them.  They checked it out and returned it to Wetzlar for repair, where it's been for the last month.  At this point it's not clear when the camera will be returned, although I've been told the repair is being expedited.  Hopefully it'll be returned soon...

Bummer dude, what can I say.

I sent my M6 Classic to DAG for the finder upgrade, and it took 16 weeks, which sucked.  So I know a bit of your feeling...