antiquecameras.net Posted October 20, 2022 Share #1 Posted October 20, 2022 Advertisement (gone after registration) I am convinced this is a fake, but wanted to show it. It appears to be a legit IIIc stepper, but the engravings are too crude to be by Leica. Also, the "N" is missing before the 38079 numbering. Whats really interesting is that the forger knew the correct serial number of known Luftwaffen cameras.... Any other insights? Thanks Dan AntiqueCameras.net Welcome, dear visitor! As registered member you'd see an image here… Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! Link to post Share on other sites Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! ' data-webShareUrl='https://www.l-camera-forum.com/topic/341422-genuine-leica-iiic-with-fake-luftwaffen-engravings/?do=findComment&comment=4539519'>More sharing options...
Advertisement Posted October 20, 2022 Posted October 20, 2022 Hi antiquecameras.net, Take a look here Genuine Leica IIIc with fake Luftwaffen engravings ?. I'm sure you'll find what you were looking for!
romanus53 Posted October 20, 2022 Share #2 Posted October 20, 2022 AFAIK the FL & other specific engravings were not done by Leitz, post-war sync in the back too. A real fake should have more engravings, swastika, gold - whatever. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
antiquecameras.net Posted October 20, 2022 Author Share #3 Posted October 20, 2022 Yes but the Leica engraving itself is not Leica quality. All the engravings are sketchy. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
PG Black nickel Posted October 20, 2022 Share #4 Posted October 20, 2022 This camera does not appear in the list...even though we know it is not exhaustive. Too bad, it would have been possible to give the answer right away. But the engraving for me is good! Welcome, dear visitor! As registered member you'd see an image here… Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! Link to post Share on other sites Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! ' data-webShareUrl='https://www.l-camera-forum.com/topic/341422-genuine-leica-iiic-with-fake-luftwaffen-engravings/?do=findComment&comment=4539624'>More sharing options...
antiquecameras.net Posted October 20, 2022 Author Share #5 Posted October 20, 2022 In Lagers book it is listed Welcome, dear visitor! As registered member you'd see an image here… Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! Link to post Share on other sites Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! ' data-webShareUrl='https://www.l-camera-forum.com/topic/341422-genuine-leica-iiic-with-fake-luftwaffen-engravings/?do=findComment&comment=4539661'>More sharing options...
jc_braconi Posted October 20, 2022 Share #6 Posted October 20, 2022 Mine is in that list Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
pippy Posted October 21, 2022 Share #7 Posted October 21, 2022 (edited) Advertisement (gone after registration) On 10/20/2022 at 12:44 PM, antiquecameras.net said: I am convinced this is a fake, but wanted to show it. It appears to be a legit IIIc stepper, but the engravings are too crude to be by Leica. Also, the "N" is missing before the 38079 numbering......Whats really interesting is that the forger knew the correct serial number of known Luftwaffen cameras.... A serial number on its own proves absolutely nothing whatsoever. As has been shown if there are lists / photograhs 'out there' which show serial numbers of authentic cameras all a forger needs to do is copy the numbers from the genuine article. A number of Leica specialist dealers here in London regularly post photographs of authentic cameras which they have in their stock so it's hardly rocket-science for a forger to make a few notes... The camera here may - or may not - be genuine but it will take a bit more than comparing serial-numbers against lists to discover the truth with certainty; the camera itself will have to be appraised by someone with very good knowledge of the subject. Philip. Edited October 21, 2022 by pippy Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anbaric Posted October 21, 2022 Share #8 Posted October 21, 2022 How about the internal serial number, as in this Heer IIIc?: https://www.catawiki.com/en/l/7042377-leica-iiic-heer-red-courtain-ob-summitar#gallery I suppose a clever forger might fake a matching internal number as well, but a mismatch would confirm that something is wrong. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Giuliobigazzi Posted October 22, 2022 Share #9 Posted October 22, 2022 Engravings look genuine to me albeit wonky and with the N incomplete, and would fit in the serial list Welcome, dear visitor! As registered member you'd see an image here… Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! Link to post Share on other sites Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! ' data-webShareUrl='https://www.l-camera-forum.com/topic/341422-genuine-leica-iiic-with-fake-luftwaffen-engravings/?do=findComment&comment=4541733'>More sharing options...
antiquecameras.net Posted October 22, 2022 Author Share #10 Posted October 22, 2022 What I have found by looking at auctions on liveauctioneers.com for "genuine" Luftwaffen cameras is that many have what looks like is sketchy engravings with no consistency in the engravings - especially those with serial numbers starting 38xxxx...so they are either all fake, or all real...??? I am going to have someone open the top of the camera to check the internal serial number... Welcome, dear visitor! As registered member you'd see an image here… Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! Link to post Share on other sites Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! ' data-webShareUrl='https://www.l-camera-forum.com/topic/341422-genuine-leica-iiic-with-fake-luftwaffen-engravings/?do=findComment&comment=4541940'>More sharing options...
Pyrogallol Posted October 22, 2022 Share #11 Posted October 22, 2022 (edited) Does my 366467 appear on any of those lists? It doesnot have any military engravings but was delivered to Ingolstadt on 2-12-1940 where there was a Luftwaffen base. I would think that the missing “N” from the engraving would indicate that it was genuine, a faker would surely not make such an error? Edited October 22, 2022 by Pyrogallol Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jc_braconi Posted October 22, 2022 Share #12 Posted October 22, 2022 I think that during the war the people working in Leitz factory were working under pressure and sometimes 24/24 and 7/7 so some defect engraving was not the important thing. 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pyrogallol Posted October 23, 2022 Share #13 Posted October 23, 2022 12 hours ago, jc_braconi said: I think that during the war the people working in Leitz factory were working under pressure and sometimes 24/24 and 7/7 so some defect engraving was not the important thing. I understand that the military engravings were not done by Leitz but later during their delivery process so variations will occur if they were made by various organisations? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jerzy Posted October 23, 2022 Share #14 Posted October 23, 2022 vor 16 Stunden schrieb Pyrogallol: Does my 366467 appear on any of those lists? not in Cane list (#4), I do not have Lager book. Cane list has 366376 until 366392 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pyrogallol Posted October 23, 2022 Share #15 Posted October 23, 2022 6 hours ago, jerzy said: not in Cane list (#4), I do not have Lager book. Cane list has 366376 until 366392 Thank you for looking. Maybe somebody in Ingolstadt just got a nice Christmas present. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
zeitz Posted October 23, 2022 Share #16 Posted October 23, 2022 On 10/20/2022 at 8:38 AM, PG Black nickel said: This camera does not appear in the list...even though we know it is not exhaustive. Cane's list seems incomplete. 23 hours ago, Pyrogallol said: was delivered to Ingolstadt on 2-12-1940 where there was a Luftwaffen base If I understand correctly, Dr Cane used the same deliver information as you used to get the Ingolstadt information. If so, then you would not expect it to be on Cane's list. I sure would like to hear more from those familiar with Dr Cane's book list, Jim Lager's book list and any other sources on wartime Leica serial numbers. 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Giuliobigazzi Posted October 24, 2022 Share #17 Posted October 24, 2022 (edited) . Edited October 24, 2022 by Giuliobigazzi Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
leifoto Posted June 12, 2023 Share #18 Posted June 12, 2023 (edited) Entschuldigen Sie. Da ist er nicht hineingekommen. Edited June 12, 2023 by leifoto Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
250swb Posted June 12, 2023 Share #19 Posted June 12, 2023 7 hours ago, leifoto said: Entschuldigen Sie. Da ist er nicht hineingekommen. This is the ENGLISH forum, please address yourself to the German forum. 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
leifoto Posted June 13, 2023 Share #20 Posted June 13, 2023 On 12.06.2023 at 20:16, 250swb said: Это форум на английском языке, пожалуйста, обратитесь к немецкому форуму. Bieten Sie einen Link zum deutschen Forum an. Danke Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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