m4-p M4-P Rewind Issue.

[Guest]

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It’s only my 2nd roll of film through the camera, so it’s probably a user error.

I rewound a roll of Kodak Tri-X (36 exp) film today on my M4-P. During the rewind I could feel the tension on he film being rewound and then it went slack. Thinking the film had been rewound into the canister I opened up the bottom plate. To my surprise the film hadn’t been fully rewound. I reattached the bottom plate and started rewinding again, feeling the tension again. Once I felt the tension release I was able to remove the film as normal.

Did I do something wrong? Has anyone had this issue and is there a solution?

Edited October 15, 2022 by OThomas

[a.noctilux]

Long time ago, I don't recall which of my M4 or M4-2/M4-P.

The rewinding was not smooth, the film was torn, it was the "R" lever which was recalled (or the spring recall) to the "wind on" position, without me noticing it.

From then I had a look at the R lever while rewinding, after for a long while taking time to push the lever with one digit, 😕 while rewinding.

 

When at home, the repair man took care of the problem which was very rare indeed.

 

? Maybe your M4-P has same "R lever rewind recalling" symptom ?

[Guest]

Thanks for the info @a.noctilux

Wouldnt the film tension go tighter, not slacker. The film didn’t break by the way. 

If it happens again I’ll get it looked at.

Edited October 15, 2022 by OThomas

[jakontil]

Hi i think i had experience the same with M6, the tension was so strong i was afraid it might break if i keep going

but let it loose and redo it again till finished

isnt it normal for the rapid rewind knob to act like that? That’s why i always prefer the classic rewind like MP and M2, M3 

[Guest]

@jakontil not sure how it’s supposed to feel. The camera is new to me and only the second roll through it. The first was fine, which is why I thought the rewind was good.

If I release the rewind know during rewinding it springs back, is that normal?

Edited October 15, 2022 by OThomas

[jakontil]

4 minutes ago, OThomas said:

@jakontil not sure how it’s supposed to feel. The camera is new to me and only the second roll through it. The first was fine, which is why I thought the rewind was good.

If I release the rewind know during rewinding it springs back, is that normal?

It happened to me on my m6, it springs back when i released it, it was too strong i didnt have the guts to keep going

but i did happen to keep rewinding and it just finish the job.. but it just the feeling dont seem quite right

I didnt spend long enough to give you any help, but yeah at times i just release let it spring back, and rewind again until finish

may be other with better experience would help more 

[Guest]

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@jakontil thanks. 

[250swb]

7 hours ago, OThomas said:

@jakontil not sure how it’s supposed to feel. The camera is new to me and only the second roll through it. The first was fine, which is why I thought the rewind was good.

If I release the rewind know during rewinding it springs back, is that normal?

Perfectly normal, if you let go the wound up film acts like an unwinding spring and the rewind crank can sometimes turn in sympathy. The film only unwinds itself inside the cassette

Regarding your first question you will feel some tension when rewinding the film, you are dragging 36 exposures back into the cassette using a tiny little crank arm so you get virtually no mechanical help. Rewinding 24 exposures is easier. And there will often be a little tug of resistance at the end as the film comes out of the petals. If the film/rewind crank has gone slack during the rewind is this when you let go of the crank arm (see answer above) because you will then have to wind up the slack film in the cassette before continuing with the film left in the camera?

Edited October 16, 2022 by 250swb

[Guest]

@250swb thanks for the info.

It explains why my 1st film rewound easily as it was a 24 exp. There was tension when I rewound it then nothing, which is why I thought the 2nd roll had finished, as it had a constant tension then nothing. I didn’t release the rewind lever at all until the tension released.

Edited October 16, 2022 by OThomas

[Huss]

Pretty much every film rewind I have done, ever, feels slightly different.  The important part is knowing when it is done which is signaled by the release of the end of the film leader from the take up spool.  Unless you are using a Leica R8 or R9, it will briefly get harder to rewind, then there will be a tug and release and suddenly there will be next to no effort.

You will also be rewinding for a little while before that happens as there is quite a it of film to work through.

[Guest]

@Huss thanks for that. It was the sudden release of tension mid rewind that confused me, making me think it had rewound fully. I will be wary of it from now on. 

[Huss]

Just now, OThomas said:

@Huss thanks for that. It was the sudden release of tension mid rewind that confused me, making me think it had rewound fully. I will be wary of it from now on. 

If you don’t care about leaving the end of the film leader out, just keep rewinding for a little bit.  As insurance.  It does not hurt anything.  So even if you think it is done, just keep going for a few seconds.

[Guest]

Ah well, just got my roll of Tri-X back from development and most, if not all frames are ruined due to the opening of the bottom plate before fully rewind. Never mind next roll ☹️