leica r4 Problems of the Leica R4

[florian30333]

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Hello Community,

I am planing to buy a Leica R4 with a 35-70 mm f/3.5 for 260€ (252USD). First of all, is that a good deal? I am very new to the Leica world, and is the 35-70mm a good lens? The second thing is, do you guys know any common Problems of the Leica R4, so I can check the Leica before buying it? That would be awsome

Greetings from Germany

Florian

[jaapv]

At that price you can hardly go wrong, provided it works properly  The lens is quite well regarded too. 

[hansvons]

Hi Florian,

SLRs of that vintage can always be a hit or miss. If the camera hasn’t seen a CLA recently chances are high that the light seals have degenerated and you might get a white, vertical strike on your images on the left side. But that can be repaired at home. Check out kameradoktor.de for light seals. I did it once, and it was half an hour affair. 

The R4 has an electronic shutter and programmes that control aperture and exposure times. That dial often has problems that may lead to funky exposure times and flickering indicators in the viewfinder. Most of the time, aperture priority works, which most prefer anyway.

The 260 EUR are an acceptable price for the lens alone if in good condition. 

But if the kit works, it will be a great introduction to the world of analogue photography. From there, you will find an interesting path to upgrade. The brilliant workhorse Summicron R 50mm, the fully mechanical R6/6.2 and a plethora of R lenses of which some are real gems and not yet fully discovered. 

Edited October 13, 2022 by hansvons

[nitroplait]

It is basically a Minolta camera with a Minolta lens. There is nothing wrong with that. Minolta made great cameras and lenses. It may be a great platform to enter the Leica ecosystem but from a purist perspective; it is not a Leica camera nor a Leica Lens, and you may find a Minolta equivalent for less and as good (with cheaper lens alternatives should you want to grow your system).

If I remember correctly, there are two versions of the lens. The early version (60mm filter) was made by Minolta; the second version (67mm filter) was a Minolta optics but mounted in the barrel by Leica.

Many R4's are showing their age and not functioning properly - more the norm than exception.
Make sure you know how to check a camera before committing.

Good luck.

 

[hepcat]

On 10/13/2022 at 7:06 AM, nitroplait said:

It is basically a Minolta camera with a Minolta lens. There is nothing wrong with that. Minolta made great cameras and lenses. ... it is not a Leica camera nor a Leica Lens...

 

 

The hardware's not important...   it's that Leica SOFTWARE that makes the difference. 

Oh.  Wait.

In the immortal words of Emily Litella... "Oh, THAT's very different.  Never mind..."  

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[florian30333]

Thanks for all of your answers. I was very concerned on the Leica R4's Quality. Now I got two more offers. An original Leicaflex with a Summicron 50mm f/2 and a Leica R3 (Made in Germany). I am not shure which one to buy. From my researches, the Leicaflex should be very big (maybe to big). And is the R3 worth a lot? I heard there were only about 2000 made in Germany. 

I don't know much about Leica yet, since I have never owned one. Should I sell my Nikon Equipment (F3, FM (Mint) + several lenses in their original package + some other stuff) first, to buy me a more expencive Leica?

Do you have some recomendations?

[florian30333]

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Am 13.10.2022 um 10:13 schrieb hansvons:

Hi Florian,

SLRs of that vintage can always be a hit or miss. If the camera hasn’t seen a CLA recently chances are high that the light seals have degenerated and you might get a white, vertical strike on your images on the left side. But that can be repaired at home. Check out kameradoktor.de for light seals. I did it once, and it was half an hour affair. 

The R4 has an electronic shutter and programmes that control aperture and exposure times. That dial often has problems that may lead to funky exposure times and flickering indicators in the viewfinder. Most of the time, aperture priority works, which most prefer anyway.

The 260 EUR are an acceptable price for the lens alone if in good condition. 

But if the kit works, it will be a great introduction to the world of analogue photography. From there, you will find an interesting path to upgrade. The brilliant workhorse Summicron R 50mm, the fully mechanical R6/6.2 and a plethora of R lenses of which some are real gems and not yet fully discovered. 

I actually shoot only analog since a vew years. I even got a Leitz Focomat Ic enlarger, but I have no experience in the Leica R System . I always was more of a Nikon guy. Do you have any other recomendations for Leica cameras? I may sell my whole Nikon system to get a nice start into the Leica world.

[florian30333]

Am 13.10.2022 um 14:06 schrieb nitroplait:

It is basically a Minolta camera with a Minolta lens. There is nothing wrong with that. Minolta made great cameras and lenses. It may be a great platform to enter the Leica ecosystem but from a purist perspective; it is not a Leica camera nor a Leica Lens, and you may find a Minolta equivalent for less and as good (with cheaper lens alternatives should you want to grow your system).

If I remember correctly, there are two versions of the lens. The early version (60mm filter) was made by Minolta; the second version (67mm filter) was a Minolta optics but mounted in the barrel by Leica.

Many R4's are showing their age and not functioning properly - more the norm than exception.
Make sure you know how to check a camera before committing.

Good luck.

 

That were my thoughts as well😂. I don't know if that would be an improvement over my Nikon system anyway. I also got an offer for a Leicaflex with a 50mm f/2 (V1). Would that be a better deal?

[nitroplait]

8 hours ago, florian30333 said:

That were my thoughts as well😂. I don't know if that would be an improvement over my Nikon system anyway. I also got an offer for a Leicaflex with a 50mm f/2 (V1). Would that be a better deal?

I have photographed since the mid 70's and one rule I wished I'd had known earlier is: Never sell equipment you love in order to buy something you think you will love more.

Another rule I try to live buy is to buy the camera I want, not it's close cousin. 
If you really lust for a Leica M and thought a Leica R was an economical shortcut into the eco system, you are in for disappointment.

The Leicaflex and Summicron combo is genetically truly Leica. Lovely camera and lens. You will experience a camera from Leica's golden age, but I am not sure if it can replace your more modern Nikons.

The R3 is like the R4, genetically a Minolta (In this case  a XE, XE-1, XE-7 depending on market). The R3 has two metering patterns - the Minolta only has one. From a user perspective it doesn't matter if it is assembled in Germany or Portugal, it is the same mix of German, Portuguese and Japanese made parts.

Both the Leicaflex and the R3 are heavier than a Nikon F3.

The Nikon cameras you own are probably more reliable than any Leica reflex you can buy, so make sure to budget for an overhaul, it will likely need it sooner or later.

Check the prices of any lens you think you may need in the future. It may help you decide if you want to switch system completely

[nitroplait]

Also, I'd advise you to educate yourself with regards to the CAM properties of Leica R lenses.

A Summicron you buy with a Leicaflex may not be 3-CAM, thus you can't use it on later R cameras with full functionality.

[earleygallery]

16 hours ago, florian30333 said:

Thanks for all of your answers. I was very concerned on the Leica R4's Quality. Now I got two more offers. An original Leicaflex with a Summicron 50mm f/2 and a Leica R3 (Made in Germany). I am not shure which one to buy. From my researches, the Leicaflex should be very big (maybe to big). And is the R3 worth a lot? I heard there were only about 2000 made in Germany. 

I don't know much about Leica yet, since I have never owned one. Should I sell my Nikon Equipment (F3, FM (Mint) + several lenses in their original package + some other stuff) first, to buy me a more expencive Leica?

Do you have some recomendations?

I know this is a Leica forum and I have a couple of R3's myself, but personally, I would say you'd be better off with what you already have. The Nikon F3 and FM are iconic cameras and probably more reliable than an R3 or R4. I had an R3 from new which developed an erratic shutter fault and can't be repaired. I bought another which turned out to have the same fault as well as a metering fault. I have since round two fully working examples but if they go wrong then they become paperweights.

The R4 had a reputation from new for electric faults, some modifications were made and they are generally reliable but not as nice as the R3 IMHO.

The Leicaflex is an older design, fully mechanical but the meters often don't work or need recalibration to work with modern batteries. You can't use later Leica R lenses on them.

If you want to experience what Leica lenses can do, you can buy an R mount lens and a kit to swap the mount with a Nikon F mount.

[hansvons]

9 hours ago, nitroplait said:

I have photographed since the mid 70's and one rule I wished I'd had known earlier is: Never sell equipment you love in order to buy something you think you will love more.

Another rule I try to live buy is to buy the camera I want, not it's close cousin. 
If you really lust for a Leica M and thought a Leica R was an economical shortcut into the eco system, you are in for disappointment.

Excellent advice.

[florian30333]

10 hours ago, nitroplait said:

I have photographed since the mid 70's and one rule I wished I'd had known earlier is: Never sell equipment you love in order to buy something you think you will love more.

Another rule I try to live buy is to buy the camera I want, not it's close cousin. 
If you really lust for a Leica M and thought a Leica R was an economical shortcut into the eco system, you are in for disappointment.

The Leicaflex and Summicron combo is genetically truly Leica. Lovely camera and lens. You will experience a camera from Leica's golden age, but I am not sure if it can replace your more modern Nikons.

The R3 is like the R4, genetically a Minolta (In this case  a XE, XE-1, XE-7 depending on market). The R3 has two metering patterns - the Minolta only has one. From a user perspective it doesn't matter if it is assembled in Germany or Portugal, it is the same mix of German, Portuguese and Japanese made parts.

Both the Leicaflex and the R3 are heavier than a Nikon F3.

The Nikon cameras you own are probably more reliable than any Leica reflex you can buy, so make sure to budget for an overhaul, it will likely need it sooner or later.

Check the prices of any lens you think you may need in the future. It may help you decide if you want to switch system completely

Thank you for that good advice. I just bought the Leicaflex with the 50mm, but I am gonna keep my Nikons 👍. Its the Leica glass and the excellent Leica service (in Germany), that made me buy this camera. Do you know if I can put the Summicron on a later Leica R body?

[nitroplait]

24 minutes ago, florian30333 said:

Do you know if I can put the Summicron on a later Leica R body?

Is it 3 cam?

[florian30333]

2 hours ago, nitroplait said:

Is it 3 cam?

No, its the first version, so ist 1 cam. But that should be no problem, as I do not use the integrated lightmeter anyways.

I also found this amazing table:

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[nitroplait]

10 minutes ago, florian30333 said:

No, its the first version, so ist 1 cam.

V. 1 doesn't automatically make it 1 cam. My V. 1 is 3 cam.

I see you have found a good overview of compatibility- good luck with your camera.

[hepcat]

4 hours ago, nitroplait said:

V. 1 doesn't automatically make it 1 cam. My V. 1 is 3 cam.

I see you have found a good overview of compatibility- good luck with your camera.

My V1 Summilux 50, 35 Elmarit, and 90 Elmarit were all two cam versions.  I had DAG install the third cam on the 50 and 35.

[florian30333]

9 hours ago, nitroplait said:

V. 1 doesn't automatically make it 1 cam. My V. 1 is 3 cam.

I see you have found a good overview of compatibility- good luck with your camera.

Ok, thanks. I will see what version i got when everything is shipped.

 

[andrew01]

That’s a reasonable price but my advice would be to only buy from sellers with a return policy, preferably an established used camera dealer like Meister camera in germany.

Buying any 40 year old electronic camera is a lottery, even the ones that were extremely reliable in their day. 

No way would I trade in your F3 or FM. These are superb cameras and you will just end up wanting to buy them back again in the future.

If you want to try an R camera I recommend the R6.2 or R6.

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Hallo,

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