New to Leica : Still worth jumping in CL System after discontinuation ?

[Le Chef]

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I’ve had almost 3 weeks away with the Q2 in tow. I’m now processing the images and hope to have a few that are worth posting. But I’m also excited to get back and start using the CL again. It gets under your skin…

[ruskkyle]

17 hours ago, elambo said:

Despite the negligence of Leica and the adverse feelings of many users on this forum, I still cannot find a valid reason to move away from the CL. I'm a guy who tends to sell a perfectly good bit of tech when something newer and shinier is offered, yet the CL has been immune to that. When the camera is in the closet I might start to entertain the idea of a change, then I take it out for an afternoon and it quickly and easily re-establishes itself, and again when those great images are thrown into Lightroom.

I wouldn't look to deeply into internet forum's for this answer. None of us is you, and we can't predict how you'll get along with the CL over time. We can offer experience and anecdotes, but not an answer.

This sums it up well for me. There are so many great mirrorless systems out there now which can compete or improve on the CL/TL system technically, give arguably better value and have ‘a future’ but I just can’t bring myself to do it at the moment. The CL feels so great in the hand and takes pictures plenty good enough for me.

[ramarren]

I bought a CL body-only to supplement my Leica M and R lens system with a TTL focusing body (for macro and long tele work) after I sold my SL. It has not failed to do the job I intended for it, and proven to be very versatile and handy to other things as well.  

Whether discontinued or not, mine works very well: I'd recommend it to anyone. After all, buy a body, buy two/three lenses, and what else do you need?

G

[elambo]

6 minutes ago, ramarren said:

Whether discontinued or not, mine works very well: I'd recommend it to anyone. After all, buy a body, buy two/three lenses, and what else do you need?

That's right, and there are good deals to be had if you can find one. That discount is compensation for having to live with a product with a limited shelf life, but I'm ok with that, and many others are, too.

[Coffeecup]

10 hours ago, elambo said:

That's right, and there are good deals to be had if you can find one. That discount is compensation for having to live with a product with a limited shelf life, but I'm ok with that, and many others are, too.

Yes indeed. I’ve bought brand new at the Leica Camera Store for 2.490,- for the kit with 18/2.8. Just last month. 

A lot of money, but I’m not really thinking it’s too much money. Yes there are newer options available for less money, but the technology isn’t that much improved as in the 2006-2016 era. Check out the issues owners of a Fuji XP3 have for instance. I don’t like how the Nikon Z-system looks and quality wise people aren’t raving about Sony either….

Coming from M4/3 I value image quality most and that’s what’s there in the CL. Without compromises. 
 

I’ve added the 30mm Sigma and an Urth adapter for my vintage Nikon glass. Probably will get the 18-50mm f2.8 from Sigma as well and maybe the 56/1.4. 

My main concern is that I since stumbled upon a Q which I bought and I’m worried it won’t be the last Leica 😖 

[edstock]

How many used CL's do you see advertised for sale? How many lenses? I've had a CL since it first came out. It's a joy to hold and shoot. Quality first rate. A solid and robust camera. I don't plan on dumping mine simply because Leica won't support them in the future. 

[Le Chef]

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I was thinking absentmindedly the other day what I would do if my CL kit was stolen. I worked through a list of potential replacements and with the possible exception of Fuji I came back to wanting to buy CL kit on the used market.

[Herr Barnack]

I am currently reading The Way of the 88 Temples by Robert C. Sibley.  The CL would be a great little camera for tackling the 1400 km. Shikoku Pilgrimage in Japan, the Appalachian Trail, Pacific Crest Trail, the Camino de Santiago or other long haul treks. 

I still can't believe that Leica ditched the CL system.  🤯

Edited October 23, 2022 by Herr Barnack

[robgo2]

When the CL line was discontinued, I promised myself that I would not purchase another dedicated TL lens for that camera, even though it still functions well, and I continue to use it. But as I have no proper wide angle lens in my bag, I have long had my eye on the Vario-Elmar-TL 11-23 f/3.5-4.5. I lurked on some of the online seller websites, and when the GAS reached a high enough level, I pulled the trigger.

Am I happy? Indeed I am. This lens is even better than I was expecting from all the rave reviews that I had read. It is extremely sharp across the field at all focal lengths (in my cursory testing) and has excellent color and contrast. Other reviewers have said that it is superior to the Summicron-TL 23 at 23mm, and I must agree. Still, it's hard to beat the TL-23 for a compact, fast walk around lens. I think that I will enjoy having both.

[Berel Shoots Cars]

As always, thank you for feeding my topics, discussion/anecdotes are very interesting and respectful  

In the meantime, I have had the chance to take part in a Leica "give it a try" event in a Leica AD in Brussels. All the portfolio (M11, Q2, SL2 and SL2-S) was on display so that we could give them a try, with advisors from the company. By taking part, my goal was really to understand what makes the products so special and iconic. Therefore, I picked an M11 with the 35 f1.4 to make a 1 hour photo walk in Brussels. I expected it to be very cool, but I did not expect to feel that much of emotions using a camera, to the extent that, at the end, I was genuinely sad to give it back. Here is what striked me the most :

1.  Rangefinder focusing : In your subject, you really try to find the details that will help you to align the lines. It is also quite amazing on the engineering side, all this mechanism between the lens and what you see. It was really a joy to use. 
2. Build and material quality : this point was the more expected. But still, everything feels perfect. everything. Every dial, every button, the shutter sound. The only downside I have seen was the aperture ring, but as demonstrators lens maybe it was a little bit worn. 
3. Discretion : At the beginning, I was really not comfortable carrying around a 15000€ camera. But, as the demonstrator say, you tend to forgive it, and people around do not look at your "grandpa camera". This is the most unexpected highlight.
4. Image quality : I was really amazed by the images, what striked me the most was the sense of texture in them, and the rich informations even in white places. I liked the Jpeg colors, but when I imported them in Lightroom I was really disappointed, Lightroom really screw them and you have to work on the import profile (which I have not done because it is not my camera). Still it is a shame because I would like to have the Leica color as a starting-point, not sort-of recreated colors. But when reviewing them while walking, I wanted to keep shooting more and more (which reminded me of the time when I bought my D7000 and just wanted to use it).
5. Some drawbacks : the camera is pretty flat, so it was hard to find how to handle it comfortably. I wear glasses, and it was hard to see the whole viewfinder and the frame lines. The red markings in the viewfinder feel awkward regarding how the rest of the tech is pretty modern.

I also had the chance to use a SL2, but it did not feel that special. So I am not really looking at CL anymore, I do not think I would appreciate the jump from my Canon EOS R. I am more looking into a 2 camera set :

• Keeping a hybrid full frame with standard zoom lenses for automative and "all purpose" phtography. If Canon does not open to 3rd parties, I will probably switch to Sony or a used Leica SL (to be able to enjoy Sigma affordable yet qualitative f2.8 zooms). There are some really good deal to be made on SL, the camera is just stunning and the compactness would be less important thanks to a 2nd camera.
• a used M camera and a nice all-around Lens as a starter (28 or 35mm, Leica if I can afford, or Voigt or Zeiss, the forum is a gold mine, thank you all) as a complement, when I just want to enjoy the experience of manual focusing and shooting with direction. The discretion and the rangefinder were really a turning-point for me.

I have also discussed about the discontinuation of CL. They replied that, regarding their customers target, it does not really make sense to sell APS-C cameras. Ok, fine ... but, by seeing and touching the 3 products, there is certainly a gap that they can not ignore for a long time : a M-Sized, full frame, EVF, L-mount camera. Or a Q with interchangeable L-Mount lenses. Or a compact M SL2. You can describe it as you want 😄. That would be a real hit.

My message was long, but I really wanted to share that experience, as I think it was one of those "turning points" of my photography experience, and I thought you might be interested. Now I will try to save a little bit to buy an M Typ 240 with a 28mm or a 35mm F2 lens. And maybe a used SL, I will open a separate feed on that  

Thank you all,

[wda]

43 minutes ago, Berel Shoots Cars said:

As always, thank you for feeding my topics, discussion/anecdotes are very interesting and respectful  

In the meantime, I have had the chance to take part in a Leica "give it a try" event in a Leica AD in Brussels. All the portfolio (M11, Q2, SL2 and SL2-S) was on display so that we could give them a try, with advisors from the company. By taking part, my goal was really to understand what makes the products so special and iconic. Therefore, I picked an M11 with the 35 f1.4 to make a 1 hour photo walk in Brussels. I expected it to be very cool, but I did not expect to feel that much of emotions using a camera, to the extent that, at the end, I was genuinely sad to give it back. Here is what striked me the most :

1.  Rangefinder focusing : In your subject, you really try to find the details that will help you to align the lines. It is also quite amazing on the engineering side, all this mechanism between the lens and what you see. It was really a joy to use. 
2. Build and material quality : this point was the more expected. But still, everything feels perfect. everything. Every dial, every button, the shutter sound. The only downside I have seen was the aperture ring, but as demonstrators lens maybe it was a little bit worn. 
3. Discretion : At the beginning, I was really not comfortable carrying around a 15000€ camera. But, as the demonstrator say, you tend to forgive it, and people around do not look at your "grandpa camera". This is the most unexpected highlight.
4. Image quality : I was really amazed by the images, what striked me the most was the sense of texture in them, and the rich informations even in white places. I liked the Jpeg colors, but when I imported them in Lightroom I was really disappointed, Lightroom really screw them and you have to work on the import profile (which I have not done because it is not my camera). Still it is a shame because I would like to have the Leica color as a starting-point, not sort-of recreated colors. But when reviewing them while walking, I wanted to keep shooting more and more (which reminded me of the time when I bought my D7000 and just wanted to use it).
5. Some drawbacks : the camera is pretty flat, so it was hard to find how to handle it comfortably. I wear glasses, and it was hard to see the whole viewfinder and the frame lines. The red markings in the viewfinder feel awkward regarding how the rest of the tech is pretty modern.

I also had the chance to use a SL2, but it did not feel that special. So I am not really looking at CL anymore, I do not think I would appreciate the jump from my Canon EOS R. I am more looking into a 2 camera set :

• Keeping a hybrid full frame with standard zoom lenses for automative and "all purpose" phtography. If Canon does not open to 3rd parties, I will probably switch to Sony or a used Leica SL (to be able to enjoy Sigma affordable yet qualitative f2.8 zooms). There are some really good deal to be made on SL, the camera is just stunning and the compactness would be less important thanks to a 2nd camera.
• a used M camera and a nice all-around Lens as a starter (28 or 35mm, Leica if I can afford, or Voigt or Zeiss, the forum is a gold mine, thank you all) as a complement, when I just want to enjoy the experience of manual focusing and shooting with direction. The discretion and the rangefinder were really a turning-point for me.

I have also discussed about the discontinuation of CL. They replied that, regarding their customers target, it does not really make sense to sell APS-C cameras. Ok, fine ... but, by seeing and touching the 3 products, there is certainly a gap that they can not ignore for a long time : a M-Sized, full frame, EVF, L-mount camera. Or a Q with interchangeable L-Mount lenses. Or a compact M SL2. You can describe it as you want 😄. That would be a real hit.

My message was long, but I really wanted to share that experience, as I think it was one of those "turning points" of my photography experience, and I thought you might be interested. Now I will try to save a little bit to buy an M Typ 240 with a 28mm or a 35mm F2 lens. And maybe a used SL, I will open a separate feed on that  

Thank you all,

I have not upgraded my MP240, which meets my rangefinder needs perfectly.

[Ricard0]

On 9/20/2022 at 7:58 AM, MJB said:

This.  People are worried about the lenses losing value, but I think that's exactly what makes them an interesting proposition right now - they will only drop so far before they level off and probably even bounce back a little.  Look at the used market - EVERYTHING Leica holds value.  So long as you don't pay full MSRP for these lenses, I think you could pretty much break even when you sell them.  I haven't paid full price for a single one, and I personally think I will hold on to mine.  I may even keep an eye out for that 60mm!

FYI, there may be a pristine used TL-60 coming up for sale at Leica Miami very soon.  I'm in the process of trading in my CL and 5 TL lenses (11-23, 35, 60, 18-56 and 55-135) for an M11.  Although I really enjoyed the CL and used it on both domestic and international trips, a few months ago I bought an M10 Monochrom and three M lenses (35 lux, 50 chron and 28 Elmarit) and I'm now very much hooked on the M platform.

I hope I don't wind up missing the CL as many here who've sold theirs have, but only time will tell.

[TMorita]

The main personal criteria I use for buying a camera area:

1. Does it fit my needs, e.g. are the lenses in my preferred focal lengths available?

2. Do I enjoy using it, e.g. does it motivate me to take photos?

3. Is repair service available?

4. Can I afford it?

My previous main camera was the X Vario, but due to #3 I bought and switched to the CL as my main camera. I still enjoy using the X Vario occasionally, though.

Toshi

 

 

 

 

 

 

[EricSS]

I bought a Q2 when they it came out and have totally blown away by the user experience, the quality of its lens, the cropping capabilities of its sensor, and its weight / compactness compared to my existing Nikon DSLR gear. I have almost never picked up the latter since (the Nikon is now mainly used for studio based fashion shoots). I was then waiting for the CL-2 to come out, with a view to getting a really compact 80-200 option.  When it was clear no CL-2 was going to arrive, I decided to buy a used (as new) CL with a 55-135 lens, which I have just complemented with a Sigma 18-50. The user experience is wonderful. The weight and compactness is just what I am looking for. The sharpness of the 55-135 is impressive. And I'm really pleased with the Sigma. But am I getting the same 'wow' out of the images as I get out of the Q2 and its Summicron? Sadly not, or at least not yet. Will I hang on to the CL and its lenses? Yes. Will I use them for outdoor shoots more than the Nikon? Almost certainly. Did I make the right decision? Time will tell …  

In conclusion for me, Leica missed a trick, because there have to be others like me who wanted to complement their Q2 experience with something lightweight, compact and more reasonably priced (ie not an SL). I just wonder how many others were also waiting for that CL update?

Edited December 13, 2022 by EricSS

[Boojay]

30 minutes ago, EricSS said:

I bought a Q2 when they it came out and have totally blown away by the user experience, the quality of its lens, the cropping capabilities of its sensor, and its weight / compactness compared to my existing Nikon DSLR gear. I have almost never picked up the latter since (the Nikon is now mainly used for studio based fashion shoots). I was then waiting for the CL-2 to come out, with a view to getting a really compact 80-200 option.  When it was clear no CL-2 was going to arrive, I decided to buy a used (as new) CL with a 55-135 lens, which I have just complemented with a Sigma 18-50. The user experience is wonderful. The weight and compactness is just what I am looking for. The sharpness of the 55-135 is impressive. And I'm really pleased with the Sigma. But am I getting the same 'wow' out of the images as I get out of the Q2 and its Summicron? Sadly not, or at least not yet. Will I hang on to the CL and its lenses? Yes. Will I use them for outdoor shoots more than the Nikon? Almost certainly. Did I make the right decision? Time will tell …  

In conclusion for me, Leica missed a trick, because there have to be others like me who wanted to complement their Q2 experience with something lightweight, compact and more reasonably priced (ie not an SL). I just wonder how many others were also waiting for that CL update?

A nice fast prime on the CL would probably give you a different feeling.  Unfair to compare either of the admittedly very good zooms (both of which I have used extensively)  to the quality of the 1.7 lens on the FF body of the Q2.  Try a 35TL 1.4 or M-L adaptor and a 28/35/50 Summilux - you may be even happier with your CL.

I think there were quite of few of us hoping for an update to the CL but, it works as well now as it did at launch for me, and hopefully will continue a little longer.🙂

 

Edited December 13, 2022 by Boojay

[Marac]

I traded in so many cameras over the years, but I have owned a CL since they came out and I still have one, as does my Wife..

To me the CL delivered exactly what I wanted in a 'mini M' style body, I use the M adapter with Voigtlander lenses, this is my preference now.

I have owned the Leica L system lenses and they are ALL STELLAR with excellent results. Sigma make excellent alternatives too.

[mktgdoc]

I've owned Leicas since the late 1960's starting with my double stroke M3, trading up to an M6, M6s, M7, M9 and finally with the CL ( Been a devoted Canon owner since the early 1970's).  I had the same concerns regarding it's discontinuation as many of you.  I decided to keep this little beauty because the pictures it produces are super and require very little post shooting tweaking.  In fact, my CL rivals many ff cameras which have more megapixels.  It's a great travel and street camera; I shoot mostly with the 11-23 for landscapes and also have the other two Leica CL zooms and the 23mm.  I recently bought the Panasonic 70-300 because it has IS and want to try using this combo at concerts (this is where my Canon R6 really shines).  Although, the Panasonic is a very good lens, it's not in the same league as my Leica's.  I also have a number of M series lenses which work very well on the CL.  I tried a number of lens adapters to put my Canon L lenses on the CL and all failed.  So, put me in the group who'll keep the CL and enjoy every time it's in my hands.

[cj3209]

I had a CL and the 23, 35, and 60 TL lenses and I regret selling them - really stupid of me.  But I found out that the TL lenses can be used with the SL2 with around 20MP shots - not bad and these TL lenses are much lighter than the SL equivalents.

I think Leica wants to push the SL cameras and saw no need to use up resources with another APC camera body.

[o2mpx]

Sold the SL2 in anticipation of the SL3, whenever it’ll come out. In the mean time, I’ve been looking for a silver CL for quite a while. Recently one was available with the 18-56 kit and have picked up the other zooms 11-23 and 55-135 since then. 
Knowing it’ll last however long it’ll last. It’s perfect for a lighter weight carry than the SL set (with the 16-35 and 24-90 zooms). Looking further out, if the CL becomes unrepairable, the TL zooms will work fine with either the Sigma fp-L or SL3…

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Hallo,

Look here: Leica L-Mount

[sandyfaf]

I noticed the L-mount alliance still has a CL on the website. Could there be some sort of future?

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