New Leica M6 Film Camera

[bilbrown]

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On 10/20/2022 at 7:36 AM, madNbad said:

The original M6 became the M6 TTL which evolved with the the change from alloy top plates back to brass leading to the release of the MP. Now the MP is reconfigured as the new M6 Classic. As many post have suggested, this will be the film body offering and the MP being discontinued.

in Hugh Brownstone's interview, Leica's Director of Global Marketing clarified this:

The MP and M-A are now considered variants of the M6. What this means is, the M6 is the standard. The M-A is the classic M2-like all mechanical camera, and the M-P is the sleek pro camera.

No model is going away. Leica is just keeping NEW versions of each generation of camera (sans the more advanced, but buggy M7 and ignoring the plagued M5). The M6 was/is the most successful film Leica to date. The M=P is the flagship and the M-A is the purist's camera.

That's it.

[bilbrown]

2 hours ago, lmans said:

Actually I feel that many embrace this...as we here, already do. The retro feel of film is obvious and to new comers, that is what they want, so I don't see this as an issue. 

What I see as an issue is:

Price..... at 5000 euro's or dollars, this is something that even 'us' as old people might second guess at buying. But for a younger person, this is not the average person on the street. I just don't buy Leica's argument that the new M6 is for the younger crowd for they don't have the dollars.  They are more into used Minoltas' or Pentax or Canon...all being beginning camera's in their minds with beginning prices. Just the other day I ran into a young lady who wanted to go retro but i knew couldn't afford the price. She wanted the used Minoltas' etc...

Second issue is time to print. Process / developing your own film is expensive and so is sending it out. Will they do this after the first few rolls? Not sure.... If they develop on their own, will they buy a scanner and take the time to upload to the computer and then work with software? No....I don't see this happening either.

So I can see this current revival being a bit dampened as either of those two things take hold.

 

Film is film is film and I don't think its quite as retro as it is the STANDARD for the photographic image, in color and black and white. Its what people look to when we think of photography. People want the Kodachrome look, or the Portrait look or look to the other camera brands that actually have presets in camera for things like Astia or Provia. Film IS the standard, and if you shoot slide film you are looking at what digital clarity is based on. So the film thing is not an issue. I think of the choice of film similar to the choice of sensors, and color science. People like what they like.

I don't think there is an issue with cost either, Leica has always been premium even before it became Verleben Goods. People will pay it if they want it, no matter what it costs.

With the amount of Leica M10P's (a camera that is much more expensive than the M6 reissue) I have seen on the street in the hands of people under 30, even those that have obviously decided that it was worth it. Remember, the $5,200 ish price tag is the cost of a used car and if you want a car you will pay it. I assure you a Leica will outlast most used cars at 6K.These young people want to be taken seriously, and have serious tools. They will find a way to pay it. I've seen it. 

People saying that the camera is "unaffordable" are ignoring the high cost of living and how much we have to make to survive, then live well.You also have to realize in MOST cities, US cities at least, rent is upward of $3,000 for a simple one bedroom. These young people have to make at least three times their rent and have GOOD credit to even get an apartment. Part of living well is doing what you want to do. Photography at this point isnt just journalism or a professional career, although it can be that, its a lifestyle choice. 

Finally, the cost of the Leica M6 reissue isn't that much different than the cost at launch in 1984. Emulsive dot com found that a new Leica M6 in 1984 was US$1,695 at launch, they also estimated a bit lower than current inflation, here is what it would be in 2022 money. If we bought the M6 Classic in 2022 dollars it's 1984 cost would be $4,842.06. Now add a better meter, a better flare-proof viewfinder and a brass top and scratch resistant coating. That's a pretty amazing upgrade, but obvious in an updated classic, no? 

The US$5,225 cost doesn't sound that bad does it. For only a little under $400 more you get a GREAT upgrade to a new M6!

Let's just think about the used prices for a minute. You have the M7, which I love but realize that it has a shelf-life, that is going for just a few hundred dollars under what it sold for or in some cases a few hundred MORE than what it sold for. You have some M6 special editions (and there were quite a few) going for upwards of $11,000 or more. Is this something you find with Nikon? Canon? any of the Japanese brands sans maybe Contax?

People will buy this, and think its a bargain. Because it IS. They are getting a camera that they can likely use for a generation or two for less than the cost of a digital pro camera. They are buying into something that will keep the longevity of a new film camera and maybe keep the film manufacturers watching and maybe bringing back a few stocks or at least doing limited runs of classic stocks. People have said that the launch of the M6 will change film photography. Maybe it will maybe it won't, but whatever it has done it has got us thinking.

 

 

 

[mikeamosau]

I love this release. In the last few years I have gone from 100% digital to around 80% film / 20% digital. If I didn’t already have an MP, I’d buy this new M6 in a heartbeat. 

[otto.f]

Btw, the new M6 is nice wannahave and I might give in some day, but the advantage above an M4 is rather relative and more a mental thing. In special light situations incident metering is preferred above a built-in meter and working with an M4 systematically learns you to expose with your brain on the long run. It’s really not that hard to judge an average scene. Having this built-in meter won’t kill you but it won’t make you stronger either. Except for slides, films don’t need being meticulous about exposure and if in doubt you make two 

[Anbaric]

11 hours ago, lmans said:

Price..... at 5000 euro's or dollars, this is something that even 'us' as old people might second guess at buying. But for a younger person, this is not the average person on the street. I just don't buy Leica's argument that the new M6 is for the younger crowd for they don't have the dollars.  They are more into used Minoltas' or Pentax or Canon...all being beginning camera's in their minds with beginning prices. Just the other day I ran into a young lady who wanted to go retro but i knew couldn't afford the price. She wanted the used Minoltas' etc...

Which is completely understandable. The M6 is a high quality, solidly built camera designed to last for decades, with a reliable shutter that has a modest range of speeds topping out at 1/1000s, a simple LED meter, and a means of focusing a range of excellent lenses. But so is a Nikon FM, for around 2% of the price of a new Leica. Leica's marketing targets affluent users, many of them of a certain age, and they are presumably now looking at younger potential customers. Not many will have the level of disposable income required to spend £6500 and up on a camera and a single lens, but at Leica levels of production they don't really need that many, and of course there will be plenty of nostalgic older customers (or those who just want the 'best' camera) to snap up every M6 they can make for some time. But for your average student photographer, the new M6 might as well not exist. They have plenty of more affordable high quality options (and of course the technical quality of the gear, beyond a certain easily accessible level, is hardly ever the limiting factor).

[Huss]

1 hour ago, Al Brown said:

The official launch of M6 for Leica stores, Leica online stores and authorized dealers is November 3rd, 2022.

In the USA the M6 is $5300 vs $5700 for the MP.

So it is the affordable Leica M everyone has been asking for..

[Huss]

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3 hours ago, Al Brown said:

The official launch of M6 for Leica stores, Leica online stores and authorized dealers is November 3rd, 2022.

Another countdown?  I could barely handle the Oct 20th one!

[FrozenInTime]

Let's play 'name that camera' :

Is it possible to spot the new version of the M6 in the street, from say 6m/20ft way, and distinguish it from a early black M6 ?

If the new optics are all multi-coated, that may be one give-away. The old black chrome possibly has more of a sheen on it.

Anything else ?

[Huss]

55 minutes ago, FrozenInTime said:

Let's play 'name that camera' :

Is it possible to spot the new version of the M6 in the street, from say 6m/20ft way, and distinguish it from a early black M6 ?

If the new optics are all multi-coated, that may be one give-away. The old black chrome possibly has more of a sheen on it.

Anything else ?

The confident strut of the owner, and the admiring side glances of passers by should give it away.

[FrozenInTime]

17 minutes ago, Huss said:

The confident strut of the owner, and the admiring side glances of passers by should give it away.

The young pretender !

[bilbrown]

19 hours ago, mikeamosau said:

I love this release. In the last few years I have gone from 100% digital to around 80% film / 20% digital. If I didn’t already have an MP, I’d buy this new M6 in a heartbeat. 

You won't be able to pry my M-A from my cold dead hands... that would be my wife's job.

 

[nicci78]

let's sum up the differences between M6 2022 vs M6 1984-1998 :

• brass top case with M11 scratch proof black paint instead of die-cast zinc alloy with black chrome
• new electronics (same as MP or newer ?) vs out of stock original M6 board
• new flare resistant viewfinder and better LED indicators (same as MP or newer ?)
• new smoother leatherette from M11 instead of the hard one from original M6
• same aesthetic design clues as original Leitz Leica M6 from 1984 : leitz red dot, made in germany stamped on leatherette, "ERNST LEITZ WETZLAR GERMANY" engraved on top plate
• 24 to 38 years younger.

Am I missing anything else ?

Edited October 28, 2022 by nicci78

[LocalHero1953]

7 minutes ago, nicci78 said:

let's sum up the differences between M6 2022 vs M6 1984-1998 :

• brass top case with M11 scratch proof black paint instead of die-cast zinc alloy with black chrome
• new electronics (same as MP or newer ?) vs out of stock original M6 board
• new viewfinder and better LED indicator (same as MP or newer ?)
• new smoother leatherette from M11 instead of harder one from original M6
• same aesthetic design clues as original Leitz Leica M6 from 1984 : leitz red dot, made in germany stamped on leatherette, "ERNST LEITZ WETZLAR GERMANY" engraved on top plate
• 24 to 38 years younger.

Am I missing anything else ?

Those are the known differences. There may also be differences in other internal parts, as reported by Jono Slack - an open question.

[jim_shields]

If I recall correctly the MP was to have internal gears made of brass which would wear in and feel smoother than those in the M6 which were made of steel to support a motor drove.  Does anyone know what the situation is with the new M6?

[Matlock]

14 minutes ago, Al Brown said:

Yes, in the video I linked they say the shutter dial, even though of the small variety, is turning in sync with the arrows inside OVF, just like on M6 TTL and MP, which is the opposite of the old M6.

But not according to Leica's publicity photos which show the same dial layout and direction of the original M6.

[Matlock]

1 minute ago, Al Brown said:

We have drama!!! Somebody is not telling the truth, either Leica or Leica. Call Frank Drebin of Police Squad!

We are doomed, doomed 🙂 

[stefanusj]

28 minutes ago, Al Brown said:

Yes, in the video I linked they say the shutter dial, even though of the small variety, is turning in sync with the arrows inside OVF, just like on M6 TTL and MP, which is the opposite of the old M6.

correction: MP, M6 classic, M2, and M3 has the same shutter dial direction

Edited October 28, 2022 by stefanusj

[stefanusj]

13 minutes ago, jim_shields said:

If I recall correctly the MP was to have internal gears made of brass which would wear in and feel smoother than those in the M6 which were made of steel to support a motor drove.  Does anyone know what the situation is with the new M6?

MP has steel internal gears

[stefanusj]

1 minute ago, Al Brown said:

Direction yes, but what about arrow sync, that's the topic... ( I do not own the MP, just quoting the guy).

the arrow light meter guidance is always the same. the difference is the newer analogue Leica (from M6TTL, M7, MP and MA) is the middle dot, before there are only two arrows.

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Hallo,

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[M9reno]

5 hours ago, nicci78 said:

let's sum up the differences between M6 2022 vs M6 1984-1998 :

 

• same aesthetic design clues as original Leitz Leica M6 from 1984 : leitz red dot, made in germany stamped on leatherette, "ERNST LEITZ WETZLAR GERMANY" engraved on top plate

Am I missing anything else ?

Add to "design clues as original Leitz Leica M6": no rubber bumpers along the curves of the top-plate to protect against strap-wear.