New Leica M6 Film Camera

[hdmesa]

Advertisement (gone after registration)

3 minutes ago, 250swb said:

OK then we have definitively decided that no, the parts are not based on the original M6. Good grief.

Based on but new.

I just now went back to the Hugh Brownstone interview and the marketing person seems to say the new circuit boards will allow repair of the original M6 (at 16:08 – Hugh is holding the original M6, the marketing person the new M6):

 

Edited October 20, 2022 by hdmesa

[Advertisement]

The Leica Q3 is available for pre-order at B&H Photo Video and Adorama

[Huss]

How about this… if I get the new M6 I’ll ask DAG to take it apart to see if anything is different mechanically from the MP?  But everyone has to chip in for that cost…

Edited October 20, 2022 by Huss

[hdmesa]

3 minutes ago, Huss said:

Exactly!  If they can make the mechanical parts for the MP, the explanation that they had to change the mechanical parts for the new M6 compared to the MP because of parts supplier issues for the MP makes no sense!

No correlation I think. New camera based on the M6 but designed without reliance on third parties that have been flakey for the MP.

[Huss]

B1tchin and moanin for no real reason aside..  how great is it that Leica, no matter your view, has released this film camera?

Name anyone else that is selling a nice 35mm film camera?  Bueller? Bueller?

[hdmesa]

In the Hugh Brownstone video, the director of marketing says the new M6 is 95% of the original M6. He also says it's brass but is actually lighter than the original M6 (?) and uses the MP finder. Even using the same in-house machines they used to make the original M6.

Edited October 20, 2022 by hdmesa

[IkarusJohn]

54 minutes ago, jsrockit said:

I think you are hung up on expecting a Leica M to offer something functionally new.  It generally does not happen too often with film Ms.  Why can't they offer the M6 and an MP?  Why would that bother you?  The M6 is a very popular camera on the used market and Leica knows it.  Some people might prefer the look of the M6 over the MP.  

It wouldn’t bother me at all.

[Crem]

Advertisement (gone after registration)

5 minutes ago, Huss said:

How about this… if I get the new M6 I’ll ask DAG to take it apart to see if anything is different mechanically from the MP?  But everyone has to chip in for that cost…

I'll chip in $1 USD, but I want to be listed in the credits of the Youtube teardown video 😀

[Huss]

1 minute ago, Crem said:

I'll chip in $1 USD, but I want to be listed in the credits of the Youtube teardown video 😀

$499 to go.  

[IkarusJohn]

56 minutes ago, hdmesa said:

If you read Jono's review and watch Hugh Brownstone's interview on the M6 out today, they both say the benefit is supply chain availability and future replacement availability of the circuit boards. Evidently the company that made the MP meter boards has been out of business for a while. I don't think we have anyone saying the parts themselves are improved, but if the guts are all-new, I'm not sure why they wouldn't be in some ways – just don't know yet.

Yes, I did read Jono’s comment.  Hugh Brownstone is a bit weird for my liking - entertaining, but not really my thing.

My interest is in passing only - I’m happy with my M-A.  There’s always interest in a new Leica, and I rather like their harking back to their history, but from a user’s perspective, it’s hardly a new camera.  You load film, focus, set aperture, adjust shutter (no aperture priority), and take the picture.  Functionally, I can’t see a difference from an MP.

Does it matter?  No.  Effectively wrapping an MP in an M6 body is what this is, despite the brief comment about improvements.  I spend no time with any of my cameras marvelling at the changes made inside to improve Leica’s supply chain, provided my cameras continue to work.  However, if I had an MP, and there were issues looming over replacement parts for my meter (one of the reasons I bought an M-A), then after raging about their supply chain management, I’d be wondering why they hadn’t quietly upgraded the MP (if the M6 is an improved model).

Don’t get me wrong - I hope it sells, and I understand people who had and loved their M6 cameras being happy.  I’d rather an upgraded MP, if I was in that market …

[hdmesa]

5 minutes ago, IkarusJohn said:

Yes, I did read Jono’s comment.  Hugh Brownstone is a bit weird for my liking - entertaining, but not really my thing.

My interest is in passing only - I’m happy with my M-A.  There’s always interest in a new Leica, and I rather like their harking back to their history, but from a user’s perspective, it’s hardly a new camera.  You load film, focus, set aperture, adjust shutter (no aperture priority), and take the picture.  Functionally, I can’t see a difference from an MP.

Does it matter?  No.  Effectively wrapping an MP in an M6 body is what this is, despite the brief comment about improvements.  I spend no time with any of my cameras marvelling at the changes made inside to improve Leica’s supply chain, provided my cameras continue to work.  However, if I had an MP, and there were issues looming over replacement parts for my meter (one of the reasons I bought an M-A), then after raging about their supply chain management, I’d be wondering why they hadn’t quietly upgraded the MP (if the M6 is an improved model).

Don’t get me wrong - I hope it sells, and I understand people who had and loved their M6 cameras being happy.  I’d rather an upgraded MP, if I was in that market …

Functionally there are few difference between any of the Ms if load + rewind + click is our definition. Leica (via marketing director) is saying it's 95% of the M6, so it's not the MP internals, it's the M6 internals with the MP finder and some other cosmetic differences. All of that like you say is largely irrelevant to the end product, which is a scan or print.

This video with Hugh is a bit different since it's just a conversation with the Leica marketing director, who does most of the talking. So if you can't stomach his regular videos, this one might be weird-safe.

Edited October 20, 2022 by hdmesa

[IkarusJohn]

Somewhere along the line, Jono’s comments following his admitedly brief review of the camera seem to have evolved into a “completely new camera” and all parts being made internally in Portugal.  Now, this may be true, but this is what Jono said:

Quote

Leica have completely revamped the supply chain for components so that they should be able to produce the cameras quickly, and be able to repair them for the foreseeable future.

Leica might clarify this, then again they might not.  Their marketing, I take with a bushell of salt.

[AAK]

1 hour ago, Huss said:

Is ‘as I understand it’ a definitive statement, or an assumption.  Because what I do not understand is which parts for the MP are now hard to get?  And why?  And if so, why are parts for the new M6 not hard to get?  Who is making those new M6 parts who could not make the MP parts?
 

It either sounds like a marketing ploy to make it seem like it is a new camera.  Or if it is a new camera, something that I would avoid for a few years to let others be the beta testers.

I'm surprised that they are bringing out a model with the M6 name. When they released the M-A, it had a new name. But I congratulate them on bringing out a new film camera in 2022. Those of us who shoot film (I use an M-A) have little to choose from in new cameras. I hope that someone will bring out a new medium format film camera. As far as I know, there is no company offering that today. I foolishly sold a Mamiya 7ii about a decade ago. The price has easily doubled since then.

 

[hdmesa]

2 minutes ago, IkarusJohn said:

Somewhere along the line, Jono’s comments following his admitedly brief review of the camera seem to have evolved into a “completely new camera” and all parts being made internally in Portugal.  Now, this may be true, but this is what Jono said:

Leica might clarify this, then again they might not.  Their marketing, I take with a bushell of salt.

Jono's comment on the M6 in the Steel Rim review calling it an all-new camera was a separate comment in the thread, not in the original post, so it's not evolved, that's literally what he said.

See these comments for context on what I've been saying

https://www.l-camera-forum.com/topic/341421-jono’s-review-leica-35mm-f14-summilux-v1-steel-rim/#elControls_4539765_menu

As I understand it . . the problem Leica have making the MP (and the M-A to a lesser extent) is that many of the parts were made by suppliers who no longer exist, so creating another camera with the same internals would be pretty stupid.

So the M6 is substantially different - I guess Leica are producing the printed circuit boards themselves in Portugal, but I don't know for sure.

I would have thought a more likely (and better) solution would be if they now changed the MP a little to take advantage of the modern supply chain for the M6. . . . but I don't know this. What I do know is that they shouldn't have too much trouble producing the M6 in substantial numbers and then being able to supply spares for many years to come.

and

https://www.l-camera-forum.com/topic/341421-jono’s-review-leica-35mm-f14-summilux-v1-steel-rim/?do=findComment&comment=4539858

Question: Did they say whether the new parts of the M6 reissue are only electronic, or do they include mechanical parts?

Jono's answer: They include mechanical parts - "basically an entirely new body" was what I was told.

Agree that the problem is we've only heard Jono's comments and the marketing director's comments – no word from the Leica engineers who usually do at least one video on a new product. I'm sure it will all be sorted out in time.

 

[IkarusJohn]

Yeah, lots of “substantially”, “as I understand it”, “I guess”, “basically”, “I don’t know for sure”, “would have thought” and “I was told” … all good, and I trust Jono implicitly.  But, at the end of the day, it has the same functionality as an MP, and doesn’t actually add to what the MP does, other than looking like an M6.  Hopefully with the benefit of greater reliability and long term service (has that been a problem with the MP? - I had one and sold it years ago)

Well, at best the MP will benefit from supply chain improvements.  I wonder if it will be a re-release, with masses of speculation, hopes, fanfare and … a camera which looks like an MP, operates like an MP and … is an MP.

[Reciprocity]

A number of years back, I built my "perfect" M6. I got it for a song for less than $900 as a cosmetically perfect M6TTL that had a bad meter connection in the shutter speed dial, it would disappear from 1/30th to 1/125. So I had DAG overhaul it and that included the black logo, MP flare resistant finder optics and the entire film advance. It's been fantastic ever since. 

If I did not already have my perfect "ride" I would possibly ante up for this fantastic re-issue. It just feels good to know Leica pays attention to this kind of thing in photography, it helps keep photography important. 

 

Welcome, dear visitor! As registered member you'd see an image here…

Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members!

Edited October 20, 2022 by Reciprocity

[Danner]

I've been an M6 proponent since day-one.  Glad that Leica is seeing things my way.

[hdmesa]

11 minutes ago, IkarusJohn said:

Yeah, lots of “substantially”, “as I understand it”, “I guess”, “basically”, “I don’t know for sure”, “would have thought” and “I was told” … all good, and I trust Jono implicitly.  But, at the end of the day, it has the same functionality as an MP, and doesn’t actually add to what the MP does, other than looking like an M6.  Hopefully with the benefit of greater reliability and long term service (has that been a problem with the MP? - I had one and sold it years ago)

Well, at best the MP will benefit from supply chain improvements.  I wonder if it will be a re-release, with masses of speculation, hopes, fanfare and … a camera which looks like an MP, operates like an MP and … is an MP.

Exactly, these are all just backstage rumination with little bearing on making photographs.

[LocalHero1953]

Taking a step back from the angels on a pinhead debate about exactly which components are different and how from the original M6 and current MP, the message from Leica (via Jono Slack and others) is basically that they could no longer guarantee the long term parts supply for the MP. Assuming they bought them manufactured in batches, they probably bought them years ago; from all I've heard, a just-in-time supply chain is not part of Leica's ethos. They now have a camera with a new supply chain (internal and outsourced) that they can guarantee for a good many years to come. Some of them may be usable in the old M6 and MP.

So yes, this is pretty much the same as an old M6 ("if it walks like a duck...." etc) and also like a MP. But to me it just sounds like Leica has just stitched a new camera into the M-film-camera-with-metering line: different from its predecessors (different metal, different plastic, new cloth, new covering, shapes cheaper to make, modern electronics, up-to-date shutter control, suppliers in-business not shut-down), but doing exactly the same as the M6 and MP.

I have no skin in this game - I have a nice M4 (and a few Barnacks) which does everything I want. Newfangled stuff like in-camera metering I leave for my SL2-S and Q2.

Edited October 20, 2022 by LocalHero1953

[Advertisement]

Hallo,

Look here: Leica M

[ktmrider2]

Wizard:  The last line of my post asks for forgiveness for sarcasm.  Could I be referring to the 135 frame lines destroying the Leica experience?

[logan2z]

2 hours ago, Huss said:

Is ‘as I understand it’ a definitive statement, or an assumption.  Because what I do not understand is which parts for the MP are now hard to get?  And why?  And if so, why are parts for the new M6 not hard to get?  Who is making those new M6 parts who could not make the MP parts?
 

It either sounds like a marketing ploy to make it seem like it is a new camera.  Or if it is a new camera, something that I would avoid for a few years to let others be the beta testers.

So, the MP meter was used to fix broken M6 Classic meters, and now the new M6 Reissue meters are going to be used to fix broken MP meters?